Service Dog on the Playa?

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theCryptofishist
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:12 am

jkisha wrote:
Bob wrote:That's a governmental entity. Burning Man is private.

ADA lawsuits would be fucking amusing, tho...

Ya, they would be amusing.

But I'm pretty sure that ADA applies to private as well as public. Think about theaters and restaurants for example-- certainly privately owned, yet they have to comply with the ADA. Not to mention that BM is being held on public land, and all public/government spaces need to comply with the act.

I'm not sure that the event is the same thing as a movie theatre, although I can confirm from looking at websites earlier this morning that public buildings on BLM land would have to comply. (I'm not sure if there's a way for me to get into the BLM trailer, or if it doesn't apply to temporary buildings.) On the other hand, they do provide big porta potties. Is there a standard of conduct that users of service animals have to adhere to in regards to the health of the animal? That might end it right there.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:02 pm

People who have and need a service dog surely know how valuable that animal is. Not only to that persons health and well being but valuable as in the cost of acquiring a good service animal. So I would think that if someone coming to bm needs to bring their service animal then they would have checked out everything that could affect their animal up there, from weather to noise,etc. And they would know wether the dog could handle it or not.

Someone trying to bring a companion animal is a different story. Companion animals do not have the same rights service animals. There are lots of people who try to blur that line when it comes to getting their dog in where it otherwise wouldn't belong.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Ugly Dougly » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:21 am

There was a time when Burning Man meant lots of firecrackers being tossed around. This is always a bad situation for dogs. Without that, I figure the main danger to a dog is the dust and heat, something that we all contend with.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby theCryptofishist » Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:46 am

Most of us don't have our bare paws on the playa floor, punctuated by lieing down on it directly.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Tvh13 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 4:58 am

gomelgo wrote:Wow, I had a hard time following this thread with so many people cautioning someone not to bring their dog. Where does this begin to be messing with someone's burn? I think anyone with a service dog will take great care of their animal. I also think that if a person feels better having the dog with them, it is THEIR decision. Sure, I can see both sides of this argument. But ultimately, isn't each of us responsible for our own burn? There are many ways to mitigate every single issue brought up in this thread.

playa dust? - booties, doggie goggles
tents too loud? - use an RV
poop? - what about the human poop and pee? Playa puddles abound at BM

Not everyone who has a service dog, needs to take that dog to every event. Some service dogs are trained to deal with loud noises. All service dogs are well socialized to humans early in life. In fact, there should be a camp for people who cannot enjoy the burn without their service animals. And for those who say it's not "self reliant" I strongly disagree. It's like saying someone in a wheelchair cannot be self reliant, which is actually discrimination. It's sad that people would be so sanctimonious over someone who wants to come to the burn, and feels the need to bring their life line.



The OP was seeking opinions from the community, after reading your post we can add belated righteous indignation to the list of views. Let have a big round of applause for some good old god fearing righteous indignation people!

Personally I would have deep deep reservations about bringing myself/my animal to Burning Man with the outstanding challenges she has described walking with and seemingly she does too (hence her post).

Carry on.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Tvh13 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:28 am

lucky420 wrote:People who have and need a service dog surely know how valuable that animal is. Not only to that persons health and well being but valuable as in the cost of acquiring a good service animal. So I would think that if someone coming to bm needs to bring their service animal then they would have checked out everything that could affect their animal up there, from weather to noise,etc. And they would know wether the dog could handle it or not.

Someone trying to bring a companion animal is a different story. Companion animals do not have the same rights service animals. There are lots of people who try to blur that line when it comes to getting their dog in where it otherwise wouldn't belong.


Neither service or companion animals have rights and I belive that the original post was regarding the question of rightness given the unique environment of black rock city.

As far as the owners right to bring the animal or not who gives a shit? Is it a humane thing to do? Is the question that I care most about.

I would think that the cost of a valued friend, companion, and care giver wouldn't be someones primary concern when making choices about its health, welfare and happiness but after reading your post I guess I might be wrong.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:59 am

I would think that the cost of a valued friend, companion, and care giver wouldn't be someones primary concern when making choices about its health, welfare and happiness but after reading your post I guess I might be wrong.


yeah and you might be wrong in the way that YOU interpreted what I wrote.

A person who uses a service animal has a very special bond with that animal. Do you think they would take this beloved and needed assistant to somewhere will it would get trashed and be in jeopardy? Don't be stupid. Service animals can cost thousands of dollars and are vital to that persons life and quality of life.

You're right service animals don't have rights but there owners sure as hell do. Check with the ADA if you don't believe me.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Tvh13 » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:49 pm

lucky420 wrote:
I would think that the cost of a valued friend, companion, and care giver wouldn't be someones primary concern when making choices about its health, welfare and happiness but after reading your post I guess I might be wrong.


yeah and you might be wrong in the way that YOU interpreted what I wrote.

A person who uses a service animal has a very special bond with that animal. Do you think they would take this beloved and needed assistant to somewhere will it would get trashed and be in jeopardy? Don't be stupid. Service animals can cost thousands of dollars and are vital to that persons life and quality of life.

You're right service animals don't have rights but there owners sure as hell do. Check with the ADA if you don't believe me.


Nope that is exactly how I interpreted your original remarks.

Please never own a dog.

Thank you.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Rice » Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:21 pm

Let's try and keep this civil folks!!!

It is obvious that many of us have different views on this subject.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby gyre » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:17 pm

Tvh13 wrote:Please never own a dog.

Thank you.

How about goats?

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:01 pm

Please never own a dog.




to late and I own 3 dogs.

Maybe we are just having difficulty understanding what each other are saying?
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby stew » Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:00 pm

Out of thin air and full of ignorance, here are my two cents:

1) service animals should be allowed and their owners should be fully responsible for the consequences
2) while it should be allowed, I would strongly advise anyone against actually bringing any animal out there

Just because something is legal, doesn't make it good idea.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby ranger magnum » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:23 pm

Sometimes there are places we want[i] to visit, yet due to circumstances, [i]shouldnt. This may be one of those situations.

The OP's service dog will do anything its master asks of it. But putting an animal in danger, particularly one that you are dependant on is IMO, irresponsible. As the old saying goes, never gamble what you cant afford to loose. Add to that the moral issues of bringing an animal to a place that you dont have to visit, and you should have your answer.

Perhaps one of the many decompression events would satisfy your wants, and keep both you and your animal safe. Los Angeles decom is now a two day event.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:32 pm

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Lonesomebri » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:12 pm

Last year at one of the smaller burns during the week, the dark surrounding the glow, we noticed this Asian women wearing a Santa hat, her eyes closed and withdrawn, a beer in one hand and a red tipped white cane in the other. She slowly walked around the burn pile as the flames dwindled, tapping near the edges of the embers.....
We never noticed who she was with... Blind drunk Santa at the Fire....
I suppose I could have asked her if I could be of service, but not sure that would have been allowed.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:16 pm

Lonesomebri wrote:Last year at one of the smaller burns during the week, the dark surrounding the glow, we noticed this Asian women wearing a Santa hat, her eyes closed and withdrawn, a beer in one hand and a red tipped white cane in the other. She slowly walked around the burn pile as the flames dwindled, tapping near the edges of the embers.....
We never noticed who she was with... Blind drunk Santa at the Fire....
I suppose I could have asked her if I could be of service, but not sure that would have been allowed.

One of the things I find really frustrating is people trying to be "helpful". They don't even wait to see that even those I can't do it the way they do, I'm still competent...
I'm thinking of making a sign for my wheelchair that says "Just Because I'm in a Wheelchair, Doesn't Mean that I Want to be Pushed Around."
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Lonesomebri » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:25 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:
Lonesomebri wrote:Last year at one of the smaller burns during the week, the dark surrounding the glow, we noticed this Asian women ..... Blind drunk Santa at the Fire....
I suppose I could have asked her if I could be of service, but not sure that would have been allowed.

One of the things I find really frustrating is people trying to be "helpful"...."


Helpful wasn't the service I was most thinking about doing...ahh hum....
Blind drunk Santa was looking kinda hot......

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:27 pm

Well, maybe you should have made a move. Although nothing too bold while she was drunk.

And I did see that what I said wasn't directly responsive. I sort of go for "teaching moments" when I can, because people are so fucking ignorant and smug...
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Lonesomebri » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:33 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:Well, maybe you should have made a move....


So, ahh, Cryptee, pour yourself another cup of box wine and roll over close to me.....what kind of wheels you got on that that thing......?

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby theCryptofishist » Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:39 pm

I have the round kind...
*eyebrow wiggle*
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Help

Postby gyre » Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:44 am

People are all different, as people always are.

Always offer first.
Some people resent even that.
Most don't.

I've met people in manual chairs by choice, that never want help, and people in power chairs that are okay with making life easier.

It's the same with every other difficulty people have, not only disabilities.

My friend is going blind.
He often wants help he shouldn't have, and other times following his natural reckless personality, doesn't ask for help when he should have it.

I met a kid from Boston, came here to go to school at 18.
I was waiting outside the medical building.
He recognized me from the eye clinic waiting room, somehow.
He's completely blind.
He just wanted to be oriented again by description.
He was very upbeat, especially when he heard it wasn't his fault he was confused.
They built a damn cul-de-sac at the exit of the building.
He was definitely showing off, but very good at getting around, and very cheerful.
Probably his first chance at independence.

Another friend of mine, who chose to live here, in spite of being a lifelong new yorker, was very independent, though losing much of his peripheral vision to glaucoma.
He died crossing a fast midtown street, a common cause of death for those with that type of glaucoma.
He was already a minor celebrity by then.

No special point here.
People are different.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Thislittlenomad » Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:54 am

You guys are all idiots, sorry. Number one... BRC is built on federal land so yeah, you are absolutely allowed to bring your service dog just as if it were anywhere else in the United States of America. Number two, a service animal is for the protection OF ITS HANDLER! A service dog will lay down its life in most occasions to protect its handler as its TRAINED TO DO and going to such a stressful place (for a person) is EXACTLY why this person SHOULD bring their dog! And Seizures?! Um yes, that dog should be there. I hate to play Dr Obvious but people bring babies to Burning Man with less backlash or worry for "conditions". Babies. Do you believe that a highly trained animal who's sole purpose in life is the protection of its handler is going to be LESS able to handle the playa than a disabled human prone to seizures and anxiety?! Come on! Sure, some booties or goggles may be a good idea for the dog but if you are disabled BY ALL MEANS BRING YOUR MEDICAL EQUIPMENT! Service animals are MEDICAL EQUIPMENT. Would you tell a person not to bring their heart pills? Wheelchair? Pace maker? A service animal is a medical requirement for many people. Also... who said that dogs couldn't find their way back to a tent? You guys really believe you're more capable as humans of playa survival than canines don't you? Sure a dog needs water, food, to poop and pee (just like humans), BUT a dog is far more resourceful than a person and DAMN SKIPPY CAN FIND ITS WAY BACK TO CAMP. My dog could sniff my tee shirt once and find that smell leading him to either me or my camp, amidst 70k people in less than an hour, guaranteed. Dogs do not sweat therefore would be BETTER HYDRATED than a human. Dogs have been to wars you silly fools, do you believe they can't be trained to protect their handlers amidst some fireworks and loud music? That's kindergarten to a trained canine. Y'all need to read something. Sheesh. Private or public establishments are NOT allowed to tell you that you cannot bring your service animal. It's fully and totally against the law so yeah, that WOULD be a good lawsuit that CAN happen, and if anyone was harmed at BRC because their medical equipment was denied entry, then the "you might die/not our responsibility" warning becomes moot in a court of law. You all really should educate yourselves. Bottom line. BURNING MAN NOR ANY OTHER EVENT CAN REJECT A SERVICE ANIMAL WORKING WITH ITS HANDLER/PATIENT. PERIOD!



Bob wrote:That's a governmental entity. Burning Man is private.

ADA lawsuits would be fucking amusing, tho...

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby lucky420 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:33 am

Thislittlenomad wrote:You guys are all idiots, sorry. Number one... BRC is built on federal land so yeah, you are absolutely allowed to bring your service dog just as if it were anywhere else in the United States of America. Number two, a service animal is for the protection OF ITS HANDLER! A service dog will lay down its life in most occasions to protect its handler as its TRAINED TO DO and going to such a stressful place (for a person) is EXACTLY why this person SHOULD bring their dog! And Seizures?! Um yes, that dog should be there. I hate to play Dr Obvious but people bring babies to Burning Man with less backlash or worry for "conditions". Babies. Do you believe that a highly trained animal who's sole purpose in life is the protection of its handler is going to be LESS able to handle the playa than a disabled human prone to seizures and anxiety?! Come on! Sure, some booties or goggles may be a good idea for the dog but if you are disabled BY ALL MEANS BRING YOUR MEDICAL EQUIPMENT! Service animals are MEDICAL EQUIPMENT. Would you tell a person not to bring their heart pills? Wheelchair? Pace maker? A service animal is a medical requirement for many people. Also... who said that dogs couldn't find their way back to a tent? You guys really believe you're more capable as humans of playa survival than canines don't you? Sure a dog needs water, food, to poop and pee (just like humans), BUT a dog is far more resourceful than a person and DAMN SKIPPY CAN FIND ITS WAY BACK TO CAMP. My dog could sniff my tee shirt once and find that smell leading him to either me or my camp, amidst 70k people in less than an hour, guaranteed. Dogs do not sweat therefore would be BETTER HYDRATED than a human. Dogs have been to wars you silly fools, do you believe they can't be trained to protect their handlers amidst some fireworks and loud music? That's kindergarten to a trained canine. Y'all need to read something. Sheesh. Private or public establishments are NOT allowed to tell you that you cannot bring your service animal. It's fully and totally against the law so yeah, that WOULD be a good lawsuit that CAN happen, and if anyone was harmed at BRC because their medical equipment was denied entry, then the "you might die/not our responsibility" warning becomes moot in a court of law. You all really should educate yourselves. Bottom line. BURNING MAN NOR ANY OTHER EVENT CAN REJECT A SERVICE ANIMAL WORKING WITH ITS HANDLER/PATIENT. PERIOD!



Bob wrote:That's a governmental entity. Burning Man is private.

ADA lawsuits would be fucking amusing, tho...


This is an old thread but damn I'm glad to see your post. I've had to explain this to people so many times...
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby 171/348 » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:11 pm

Gotta love someone who responds to a 12 year dead thread with, "You are all idiots..."
I'm reminded of that thing the pot said to the kettle.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby some seeing eye » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:15 pm

dogs@burningman.org

I propose Burning Man is an extreme wilderness campout. So the question to ask is WWYDCD? - what would you do climbing Denali? Denali is not the grocery store.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Admiral Fukkit » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:24 pm

I know several people with service dogs.
Every single one of them is on complete bullshit pretenses.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "service dogs" are bullshit loop-holers.

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Canoe » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:32 pm

Or should anyone bringing a service animal to an environment that is such a danger to the animal be charged with abuse?
Or who pays for the vet bills for playa induced issues?
Or who pays for the upkeep of the animal if it can no longer do its service duties?
Or who pays for a replacement service animal?

If I had a service animal on which I depended and for which I cared so much for, I sure wouldn't be subjecting it to the playa.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby BBadger » Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:52 pm

Admiral Fukkit wrote:I know several people with service dogs.
Every single one of them is on complete bullshit pretenses.
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of "service dogs" are bullshit loop-holers.


Oh yes, like those toy dog breed "service dogs", wearing labeled vests purchased from Amazon.com. Official as those "FBI" shirts people like to wear. They're in service for, what, "stress relief"?

If these "service dogs" are ever allowed, they need to be formally registered and tagged in the same way that Mutant Vehicles are tagged. They must have insurance, must have no claims of liability on part of the event for what happens to the animals. The handlers would need to either diaper their pets or clean up their shit and piss, and that means scrubbing the playa for any residues.

Oh, and those dogs should require a full-priced ticket to attend. Watch those service dog users scatter like parents at a movie theater without matinee prices.

I'd also love to see law enforcement clamp down on untagged animal owners, just as I'd like to see them arrest more of those unregistered motor vehicles used on-playa for personal transport.

On another note, a friend of mine saw a cat at the event this year. Fuck those hippies who subject their pets to this event. I can only imagine the sheer terror of being an animal in some crazy, foreign city full of craziness, loud noises, heat, chaos, and dryness. It's bad enough that those hippies at the Rainbow Gathering bring their pets, only to have them get lost and needing to be shot after the hippie infestation has evacuated the area. We're better than this.
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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby forty_eight » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:10 pm

lmao - so this necrothread is gonna continue to deliver?

IN!

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Re: Service Dog on the Playa?

Postby Token » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:54 pm

Canoe wrote:Or should anyone bringing a service animal to an environment that is such a danger to the animal be charged with abuse?
Or who pays for the vet bills for playa induced issues?
Or who pays for the upkeep of the animal if it can no longer do its service duties?
Or who pays for a replacement service animal?

If I had a service animal on which I depended and for which I cared so much for, I sure wouldn't be subjecting it to the playa.


Sweet fucking Dog!

You can't be serious?!

Dogs roamed the Playa for fucking ages before someone got fed up with all the shit.

And actually the dogs got a raw deal cuz it wasn't dog shit that got them banned, it was camel shit that ruined it for everyone. Fucking camels.

You can still bring a service chickens all you want.

Stroking a cock is blissful.


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