Some Theme Camps unaproachable

Mark Hinkley · Post by **Mark Hinkley** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:50 am

"I suggest you stick with the thread."

Good idea, that should distract everybody.

I understood the original topic to be the design of theme camps and the manner in which they did or did not communicate accessibility and welcome. From my pov it's a more fruitful topic than whether or not theme camps should be allowed to close for private parties.

This gives me another chance to quote Pinky: "It's all about intention. People ask me how to create a theme camp. I ask them, 'What do you want?' because whatever you want is what you will get and whatever you really intended will always show through." Good stuff, Pink.

It is simply true that a lot of camps that decorate with a theme are intended for the creature comfort of their members and guests. This is totally fine - people should be comfortable and enjoy whatever art they create for their environment. But this is a different kind of theme camp than those intended to serve as public attractions. Nobody says anyone has to create a camp of one kind or another and nobody should be criticized for choosing to create a self-serving space for their needs and purposes.

But there is an expectation that the camps placed on the Esplanade should be offered as public attractions and one does have to promise 24 hour interactivity to placed there. Except for these camps, it's probably nobody's business whether or not a camp is designed to be accessible and welcoming. But for Esplanade camps, I think there is a responsibility to try.

Not everyone does. There are always some camps that are clearly just residential facilities grasping at a front row view. But the great majority do seem to intend access, welcome and interactivity. Then it becomes a matter of design and communication, and that is the realm of art. Some art at Burning Man is better than others - and it's true of space and human factors design as much as it's true of sculpture or costume.

And so, to our original poster, I would observe that if you noticed these details, perhaps you have a talent for this peculiar area of design and you should be encouraged to tackle a project of your own. I am confident you would not only enrich the experience of your fellow citizens of BRC, but you would also come to a new appreciation for the unique challenges of designing space that is interesting, inviting and interactive on the dead white ground of the Black Rock Desert.

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:13 am

slut,

The continuous rantings over gigsville was mearly siting an example of the closed off nature of a good portion of the theme and other camps. I'd like to point out again the minor fact that they (Gigs) did have gates albeit not all the way accross. Another poster said the Gorilla camp (not associated with Gigsville) had rude bartenders. If people from Gigsville wish to protest the comments I made then let them, frankly I think they could care less what I had to say. They know the image they portrayed good or bad and can deefend themselves Im sure. Surely there are some burners out there that can site other unfriendly camps to make this strand a lot more interesting.

I would like to comment that there were a LOT of friendly camps as well and they outnumbered the lesser friendly however that is for another posting. If there are those of you that feel they need to defend the closed off nature of camps they were in or not in please remember, the truth does not need to justify itself. Peace.

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:21 am

Gothalot wrote: My faveorite place ended up being a quiet place called The Seven Sins where they were always inviting and happy to see me and anyone else that happened to come along. Truely they were into the spirt of Burning Man.

Why, thank you! I'm happy you got a chance to enjoy our camp!

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:29 am

casnimot wrote:Why, thank you! I'm happy you got a chance to enjoy our camp!

slut

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:41 am

Zane5100 wrote:
casnimot wrote:Why, thank you! I'm happy you got a chance to enjoy our camp!
slut

<snicker>Most definately.

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:48 am

Slut? I prefered to be called Whore thank you very much.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:26 am

Where's my plonk button?

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:50 am

Word!

My camp scheduled happy hour three evenings during the event. Got a fair number of people drunk and alternatively gendered to some extent. Some people wandered in at other times, and some of them got served, depending on the feelings at the moment of whoever they came into contact with. Others got the news that we weren't serving, and they went out to find other opportunities. If that's not sufficiently in the fabled Spirit of the event, oh fucking well.

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:27 pm

The Plonk button is in the upper right next to the flush button but remember to use 1 ply only.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:39 pm

From my experience, including my camp, all theme camps are unapproachable at one time or the other.

When my camp became unwelcoming, it wasn't out of maliciousness--it was usually do to the fact that I wanted a break and my campmates were not in camp. Sometimes people became irritated with me, but that was their choice--I still closed up shop and did what I wanted to do.

After all, it's a theme camp at Burning Man, not a fucking job...

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:45 pm

Zane5100 wrote:After all, it's a theme camp at Burning Man, not a fucking job...

Quite, and it's something that both producers and consumers should remember.

slut · Post by **slut** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:27 pm

Sorry if the "Slut" bothered anyone, it was in referrence to my being a Pizza Slut and not directed at anyone else.

The example stunk plain and simple. There may have been other places that did seem closed and monkey bar sounds like one. The gigsville place with a couple hours off wasn't.

I had a fantastic week this year - thanks everyone.

slut

herself · Post by **herself** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:28 pm

hey Goth

I'm with you. The impression I've gotten of
Gigsville is pretty negative, despite III and
precipitate's defense of it. I like both III and
precip and would probably like many of the
individuals involved in gigsville, but I don't
think cliquishness is ever desirable, and that's
what I see in gigsville. And the deathguild too.

Sure I can do my own camp if I don't like
someone else's but that's not the point of
this discussion. The point is that people who
seek out exclusionary clubbiness are usually
pretty insecure about themselves. At least
that's my point.

I also think a lot of you eplaya regulars are
ganging up on someone who appears to be
relatively new around here, on the eplaya,
and that's kind of annoying. Maybe you guys
know Goth but I haven't seen him on this board
much before, and I think some of the namecalling
is inappropriate to someone so new on the eplaya.

herself

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:54 pm

Thanks herself,
I apreciate the support. I'm not exactly a virgin here but I am trying to say what I see and give my own impression. Its certainly not in my own interest to bash any camp but just to point out where I think improvements and changes could be made.

In regards to Deathguild and to my peril start another barage of comments I really think Deathguild needs to refresh their act and attitude as well. Unfortunately they have become so huge as an act and risen in popularity that they fall victim to their own popularity. I had difficulty finding any of the Burning Man Theme in the Deathguild camp. Still they intertain don't they and there is no harm in that.

Chupacabra is a one particular group that I would not expect any changes tho since they are complete madness and well beyond reality. They looks serious but never take themselves that seriously. I would have wandered into their camp but wasnt carring any beer to keep from getting dragged behind any number of their flame throwing vehicles. Some of you Im sure would have enjoyed that, LOL.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 1:59 pm

> The impression I've gotten of
> Gigsville is pretty negative, despite III and
> precipitate's defense of it.

I'm not defending Gigsville as a whole (besides, Gigsville
doesn't exist; it's a figment of your imagination). You can
take or leave Gigsville, and it makes no difference to me.

The specific accusation I was addressing was that "Gigsville"
was excluding a non-Gigsville person during a planned,
private event. First, I don't think there's anything wrong
with that -- which Goth seems to -- and second, I thought
he was applying his judgment to the entire village rather
than just a camp. And, while he did clarify that his experience
was with just one camp, he did say he wanted nothing to do
with Gigsville as a whole.

(begin Gigsville explanation) In general, that's best. People who
react that strongly to a single event tend not to like interacting
with Gigsville folk. People who stick around and get to know
them tend to be a lot happier interacting, but not always.
There are lots of great folks out there who wouldn't fit into
Gigsville, and that's just fine. It has not been my experience
that Gigsville is exclusionary, but I can understand how one could
perceive it that way.

Besides, who in the world wants their circle of friends to
be entirely inclusive? Do you really like everyone you meet?
The fact that Gigsville people interact primarily off the
playa is a little different from the typical theme camp model,
and it may make it seem cliquish. Most people are pretty
open to meeting new folks, though.
(end Gigsville explanation)

> ganging up on someone

Sorry if I appear to be ganging up on Goth. He's being reactionary
and accusatory, and was evincing a style that seemed to be inviting
flames. I disagree with his perspective. I hope I stated that rather
clearly. Although this may change, from his posts on the previous
eplaya and his attitude here, I'm not particularly impressed. Maybe
that'll change. Maybe not. Hopefully he doesn't give a flying fuck
one way or the other.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:01 pm

> I really think Deathguild needs to refresh their act and attitude as well.

Armchair quarterbacking is so easy, isn't it?

twyla · Post by **twyla** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:18 pm

Hey if you want to be private and not want company, build your theme camp in the confort of your own backyard! Its not like I was tripping in at 8:00 in the morning! I'm talking at night when everyone was obviosly partying! I never turned anyone away or was rude to anyone at my camp at any time!!! even at 8:00am! And if you don't want to be noticed, don't make yourself so noticible! Enough said. See ya! And as far as the Gazette reporter, I got you honey...you were just making a distinction. some people thought you were bragging, I didn't!

twyla · Post by **twyla** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:26 pm

Wow! 46 replys to my post! I guess I really hit a nerve!

TestesInSac · Post by **TestesInSac** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:36 pm

For my part, and this was also the consensus of our camp, there is a threshhold that we'd rather not cross in terms of visitors and activity. Were we located on the esplanade, we'd surely have crossed it, so we prefer our location on the second ring out (Authority).

That said, it got really dead on Authority Friday and Saturday nights, which is too bad. For all the talk of alternative-ness, Burning Man Spirit, etc., the overwhelming majority of folks, clustered as they were on the esplanade, behaved just as if they were at Disneyland, queueing for drinks, sights, experiences, etc.

The point: approachability seems only half of the question.

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:44 pm

it's still just a fucking camping trip

twyla · Post by **twyla** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 2:50 pm

You got that right Zane! With a lot of dirt!

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 3:51 pm

Dirt camp, weeee heeeee add water, get the slip n slide out, damn I didn't see a mud camp this year. Maybe precipitate wants to start one next year an we can have it out in the Ring of Doom. I'll even bring one of those KFC handi wipes. I get to use it first tho.

gladeye · Post by **gladeye** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:34 pm

There's a bajillion things to do at Burning Man and a lot of kinds of vibes to stumble on. If you come upon a snooty, cranky, belligerent experience, then move on instead of fixating on it. (There ARE types who seek and embrace negativity energy though, even at BM). I only passed through Gigsville once this year and it felt too large to have a specific "feel" one way or another, however... I have heard reference to Gigsville's exclusivity from more than a few people over the years. One group I know tried to break the ice with them in a playful way though. They went out to a Gigsville party on a California desert lakebed somewhere and built an observation platform next to it. They stood on the platform wearing labcoats, holding clipboards, and I think viewed the party through a giant microscope or something. If I recall right, it got a smirk and chuckle out of the Gigsvillians (Gigsvillans?) but never led to any collaborations or friendships. I'm only talking hearsay though and you can't judge a mass of people on hearsay or isolated experiences. I thought it was kinda strange that no one from Gigsville has chimed in on this thread, but what are they going to say in their defense that hasn't already been said?

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:44 pm

Labcoats! Oh muh lordy that is rich! How funny is that. I can see I have hit nerves with my comments now. Must be an air of "reality" to my rantings.

III · Post by **III** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:51 pm

>Must be an air of "reality" to my rantings.

yeah: you, steve capone, and j. dunphee. all of you are insanely immersed in reality.

dunno why people feel the need to respond to whiney bitch trolls.

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:49 pm

Having once spent a relaxing evening chatting around Gigsville's automobile-themed burn platform ("Car-b-que") peeling latex paint off of one of the Mutaytor dancing girls, I found them to be welcoming enough. But I think it would be odd if they weren't a bit self-centered under normal circumstances as they're mostly from the same home town, conduct a great many local gatherings both large and complicated, and small and intimate. When you're hanging out with your old friends it's only natural to mostly chat with your old friends.

bgirl · Post by **bgirl** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:50 pm

Totally agree with you (last poster), and the reason why is ;whiny bitch troll is a attention slut that wasn't invited or wanted at the party so whiny bitch attention slut troll did what whiny bitches do.Bitch!!Ohhhhhhhh fucking well! Reporter? Learn to spell first .

Anyway, the fact this debate(?) was really kicked off by a reporter(?) is indicative of a event quickly sinking into the mire/soul- less looky- loo mentality of the "ENTERTAINMENT," sector.....or maybe I am being too dramatic ,maybe it's simply smarter to realize there is always a bad egg in the bunch.Since my first year,1996, seems like the volume of whiners ,bitchers and I paid my $$, gimme gimme, what do I get, is increasing.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:58 pm

Gigsville?

HA ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

I don't care for Gigsville. I don't go there. 'Nuff said.

(Although this year I bravely executed a stealthy recon mission deep inside the gates...mwah ha ha)

herself · Post by **herself** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:16 pm

I don't understand how anyone could anyone
could compare Goth's posts to those of j.d. or
steve capone. I think he has retained a sense of
perspective in this discussion that is lacking among
trolls.

precipitate, I appreciate your as-usual thoughtful
response. But I don't really like exclusivity.Though
I agree that there is (and should be) no ideal of
'burner spirit' except maybe the notion of open-mindedness.

I agree, gigsville and death guild and their ilk should
be able to do whatever they want. But I thought we
were talking more philosophically, like "is it a good
thing that some camps are so exclusive." I tend to
think that it's not but I suppose reasonable people
might disagree.

harriet

Gothalot · Post by **Gothalot** » Wed Sep 03, 2003 6:25 pm

Actually I was invited to the party, I SAID that I decided not to go. How clear does that need to be made? Forget my spelling will you ? Seems as if a few here cant even grasp comprehension. So in closing the only whineing trolls here seem to be the ones distorting what was said in the first place.

Some Theme Camps unaproachable

Blah blah blah

Re: cliques

Re: cliques

Re: cliques

Slut?

plonk

Cheers

Dirt

Larfin me arse off