Monkey Hut question

[maladroit]

Apparently I'm doing it wrong, which one is supposed to be going through? All the ones I've seen are completely split.

There should be a larger pipe going all the way through, the ribs slide into that. So, yeah, technically the ribs are split there in a basic hut, but the larger pipe passing through makes sure the tension is spread over a larger arc of pipe rather than focused on that X connector.

[fresh]

The ribs pass right through the T and X joints in the original design, which is fairly reliable. The spine, as you mention, is only held in with a little friction and about 1" of connector. You have to use tight bungees or rope to pull the connectors together to have any hope of it remaining intact.

I like the in-line spine, so I'm keeping it...but I've modified the design a little. Just get some 1-1/2" pipe, cut 1 foot sections, and actually glue them into the connectors where the spine should go. Then you can slide 5-foot pieces of spine into those pipes. They won't slide off with 1 foot of interlock, rather than 1".

Edit: forgot to mention that you're not guaranteed to get a 1-1/4" pipe into a 1-1/2" pipe unless you find schedule 20 or class 200 pipes for the 1-1/2" section. The 1-1/4" pipe is a hair too big to slide in so you either have to sand it down a little (lot of work, nice and snug fit) or 1" pipe would probably still work fine, as it's just being used as a compression spacer.

I think I might try a solution like this. I already have a altered config since my tarp is 16' wide. The middle spine is a foot longer!

I am concerned with the playa reports now of epic fail. Gonna try to make it as bulletproof as I can. As far as the middle spine piece having too much arc, I think it is due to the long amount of pipe going through connectors on both sides. I may trim the connectors on that side by about a 5 inches and I bet it flattens out.

Thanks for all the advice!

[John_daydreamer]

Cool!

I'm building a love monkey aerodrome thing too. So far so good: I just got the 10x20 silver tarp, bungie balls, t-connector, and x-connector and have done some of the pre-assembly. I'm buying the 10' foot sections of PVC when I get to San Francisco.

I discovered Home Depot sells 2 foot steel spikes, which might be easier to pound into the playa. Rebar is $1.60; these were about $3.

Question: do I need to bring a sledge hammer to pound in the rebar / spikes? This is my first Burn ...

We are building a couple of these this year. http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/

I have a question though. In the picture of the "finished product" monkey hut, it looks like there is PVC on both the inside and outside of the tarp. There is no mention of two layers of PVC and I know this can't be right ... so what is that? We are doing our test build this weekend so any info or advice would be helpful.

[Drawingablank]

Eiteher will pound in pretty easy using a hand sledge (technically its called a drilling hammer). No need for anything massive.

[Theres Always One]

Cool!

I'm building a love monkey aerodrome thing too. So far so good: I just got the 10x20 silver tarp, bungie balls, t-connector, and x-connector and have done some of the pre-assembly. I'm buying the 10' foot sections of PVC when I get to San Francisco.

I discovered Home Depot sells 2 foot steel spikes, which might be easier to pound into the playa. Rebar is $1.60; these were about $3.

Question: do I need to bring a sledge hammer to pound in the rebar / spikes? This is my first Burn ...

I use a 4 lbs sledge and it works pretty good. I couldn't imagine a regular hammer being enough to hammer the rebar. Even with the 4 lbs sledge it takes some work. Hammering rebar into the playa is not fun.

[Theraplst]

Hello! this'll be my first burn and im bringin a monkey hut. standard design no wind flap. I like your idea with the rope as opposed to a center spine. does it go out to the end ribs and to the ground?

[MacGlenver]

Hello! this'll be my first burn and im bringin a monkey hut. standard design no wind flap. I like your idea with the rope as opposed to a center spine. does it go out to the end ribs and to the ground?

Yep. We're using 2 straps/ropes on either side of center at the top of the hut, and each rope extends out from the front and back and down to a piece of rebar (and then that piece of rebar is reinforced with a second piece of rebar + strap). In total I use 8 pieces of rebar to tie the 4 ends to the ground.

One of the tricky parts we found when doing our test build is keeping the straps/rope properly in line as they attach to each rib. We're going to put duct tape on either side of the straps, then roll up some duct tape into a cord, put that over the first piece, and then one more piece of duct tape on top. Essentially we're making a ridge on either side of the rope so that it wont slide side to side. I dont expect much sideways force on the straps so I'm thinking that'll be enough, but we can get more extreme if needed.

[Theres Always One]

I have to say -- no offense to Love's Monkey hut, but the design where you make the spine out of multiple sections connected via those wedged in duct tape ends is terrible. We used it last year and the center spine kept coming out of the T and X connectors and falling on our heads. We had to tape the shit out of it to make it stay in, which is contrary to the point of the design. If you put a strap on the end ribs, it will surely pull the spine out of its connectors.

The better design is to take 10' sections of 1" PVC and join them with a 3 foot long, 1 & 1/4" sleeve. You duct tape around the 1" stuff about a foot from the end to prevent it from sliding too far into the wider 3' sleeve. If you want to be sure it wont slide out, add some duct tape once the 1" stuff is inside the thicker PVC. Rinse and repeat for several sections (up to 30 or 40 feet -- I've only tried up to 30' thought). Don't bother with the in-line ridge pole, just make a pole of the appropriate length using the method I described, and set it directly on top of the curved ribs. Use duct tape or bicycle tire wrapped cross-wise over the ridge pole and the rib to tie them together. MUCH sturdier and easier to build than Love's monkey hut, and almost no cutting except for the connector sleeves.

Have you ever considered ditching the solid piece ridge/spine altogether? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the ridge does nothing more than provide a means of uniform separation for the ribs. I don't see any structural benefits to it at all. I'm wondering, would it be possible to just make your ribs with the connector sleeves then just link them all with ropes and knots?

[maladroit]

It provides pretty good compressive separation. If you tried to use rope instead and get it as stiff as the pipe, you'd have ratcheted the center of the hut all the way to the ground. The tarp is going to pull toward the middle of the hut when it bellies out in the wind. Maybe you could string pieces of pipe over the connecting ropes to add some compression strength.

However...this seems like a bad year to experiment too far from the playa-proven (for what it's worth) design. Execution is key...there is a lot of room to screw this up with your attachment points, knots, and rebar.

[Theres Always One]

However...this seems like a bad year to experiment too far from the playa-proven (for what it's worth) design. Execution is key...there is a lot of room to screw this up with your attachment points, knots, and rebar.

I can appreciate your logic but, if not this year, then when?

[MacGlenver]

Have you ever considered ditching the solid piece ridge/spine altogether? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the ridge does nothing more than provide a means of uniform separation for the ribs. I don't see any structural benefits to it at all. I'm wondering, would it be possible to just make your ribs with the connector sleeves then just link them all with ropes and knots?

Yep, that's actually what we're doing this year. See my quote from the bottom of page 1 of this thread.

Here's the best explanation I've found for the design that I intend to use. My design is basically the final picture in the lower right. No ridge pole -- just two straps along the center, guyed down. The ridge pole (which isnt used in my design) essentially only serves to keep the ribs evenly spaced, so as long as you tie the lengthwise straps at each rib and then guy it down with a good amount of tension, the ribs cant fall in or out.
http://www.toad.com/gnu/clifs-shade-structure.html
Again, my rule is: no T or X connectors, and if you're doing a spine/ridge pole, just lay it on top of the ribs (whats the point of doing otherwise?).

I agree that the spine provides no real structure, just separation. We did a test build here in Atlanta and it looked good, but obviously we're not in 50mph wind. That said, if the structure fails, it wont be because we left off the ridge pole. If it fails, it will fail because all the tie-downs break or the rebar pulls out of the ground. We're going extra heavy on rebar reinforcement though, and have 4200lb tensile strength nylon webbing (overkill, I think -- I've read recently that most people use poly webbing which is more like 600-900 tensile).

The main tricky part with using straps to keep the separation is that you have to tie them very evenly, and they tend to slide side to side on the PVC. Read my post a little further up this page to see how we plan to deal with that (basically creating a ridge of duct tape on either side of the strap, where it attaches to the PVC.

[FIGJAM]

I try to design any shade so that the first failure (if any) will be the grommets.

That way the only thing flying loose will be the tarp, and no hardwear.

Less likey to hurt anyone.

[MacGlenver]

I try to design any shade so that the first failure (if any) will be the grommets.
That way the only thing flying loose will be the tarp, and no hardwear.
Less likey to hurt anyone.

True that. I suspect (hope) that would be the first failure point on mine as well.

[JovReef]

We made the version without T or X connectors, just the rope strung through the center sleeve this weekend and bought materials for 2 more haha.

Really surprised how easy they are to assimble and how strong they are. Also there is so much head room. I was expecting to duck down when standing at least closer to the curve but nope, full head room.

[MacGlenver]

We made the version without T or X connectors, just the rope strung through the center sleeve this weekend and bought materials for 2 more haha.

Really surprised how easy they are to assimble and how strong they are. Also there is so much head room. I was expecting to duck down when standing at least closer to the curve but nope, full head room.

Yep, monkey huts rule. I almost brought one to the beach but my friends asked me not to . The other great thing is how adjustable they are. If you want it taller, just move the legs in closer. If you want more protection from sun and have a tarp with different width than length, put the long side of the tarp horizontally and use the short side as the hut's length.

[Pazzo314]

Another monkey hut question...

I already have in my possession a 12x16 tarp, and I am looking to create a monkey hut with it. Currently my dimensions would only allow for a 4' 8 height at its highest point. I am not necessarily looking to spend an enormous amount of time inside of it as this is my first Burn, but it would be nice to have somewhere to place my tent and sit out a dust storm pending being graced with one in camp.

What I am curious about is if the dimensions are too small for the PVC to bend enough to create the ribs. If anyone has created a monkey hut using smaller dimensions some guidance would be appreciated.

[MacGlenver]

Another monkey hut question...

I already have in my possession a 12x16 tarp, and I am looking to create a monkey hut with it. Currently my dimensions would only allow for a 4' 8 height at its highest point. I am not necessarily looking to spend an enormous amount of time inside of it as this is my first Burn, but it would be nice to have somewhere to place my tent and sit out a dust storm pending being graced with one in camp.

What I am curious about is if the dimensions are too small for the PVC to bend enough to create the ribs. If anyone has created a monkey hut using smaller dimensions some guidance would be appreciated.

You can create a monkey hut with a tarp that size easily. I'm not sure where you get the 4'8" peak height, since that has more to do with the PVC and less to do with the tarp. The smallest ribs I've seen/used were 20' long (two 10' PVCs joined at the middle). This creates about a 12 foot wide opening, and should be about 6-7 feet tall. The fact that you have a small tarp just means it wont come all the way down to the ground. If you use the 16 foot long side of your tarp to go across the front rib, and make the hut 12 feet long (the "width" of your tarp), you should only have 2-3 feet of gap on either side between the tarp and the ground.

Are you planning on using ribs shorter than 20 feet?

[FIGJAM]

Some neighbors last year did thier hut with only the south 2/3rds of the frame covered.

So it was open on the ends and all down one side.

[Pazzo314]

The hut is basically a half circle and I was calculating a 30' circumference, for my 15' 7" tarp, comes out to about 4' 9.25" of a radius. To achieve full coverage with just the tarp I would need to cut the ribs to a 7.5' at minimum.

Using 1.25" Sched 40 PVC as the ribs and then 4, 18 inch or 2 foot long pieces of 2inch PVC as the sleeve for the top connections and then supplement climbing rope to act as the rib spacers, and 2 ratchets to anchor the end sleeves to rebar in the ground.

I just am unsure whether or not the 7.5 or less 1 1/4 inch pvc will be able to achieve enough arch without compromising the integrity of the structure.

Alas, I think I will go with the gap and do something similar to the 4th post with the pictured setup on the previous page.

Any suggestions on what to using to cover the gaps on the bottom? Weed Barrier? double layers of trash fencing? shade cloth?

[Pazzo314]

Are you planning on using ribs shorter than 20 feet?

forgot that in the original.

[maladroit]

You can get a 4 by 15 foot canvas drop cloth pretty cheap at home depot. The downside is it doesn't have any grommets...same problem with most of the other options you listed.

[Pazzo314]

You can get a 4 by 15 foot canvas drop cloth pretty cheap at home depot. The downside is it doesn't have any grommets...same problem with most of the other options you listed.

Any luck with duct tape grommets?

[MacGlenver]

I wouldn't try duct tape grommets on a monkey hut. Maybe on a ground cover. Never tried them but can't see them holding very well. Also since I think you said your hut is for tent shade I don't see why you need to cover the gap ay the bottom. Most of my huts don't touch the ground but provide ample shade. Realize that the sun will almost never hit the angle needed to get under that gap.

Also 1.25 in pvc is surprisingly thick. I'm doing all 1in stuff. Nearly all monkey huts use 1in pvc so for a hut your size I think it should be plenty. Only the really huge domes use 1.25.

[Pazzo314]

Aha! <Facepalm>

Read schematics twice, ask for help, finally realize where the flaws were. Bwaha.

Thanks for the help Mac!

[MacGlenver]

Aha! <Facepalm>

Read schematics twice, ask for help, finally realize where the flaws were. Bwaha.

Thanks for the help Mac!

Np. PS. if you're adding grommets (brass recommended), you can buy pretty cheap grommet kits on amazon. They're 8-12 bucks, and you can order extra grommets pretty cheap too (just make surey they fit your grommet kit well, or they will look a little funky after you hammer on them).

[wimala1]

does anyone have any feedback from their monkey hut performance? here's mine:

As always, laying out and pounding the rebar in absolutely suxed!!!!
i went with 36", 1/2"round, pounded in 18" on 4 corners
24", 1/2" round on middle 3 ribs (both sides), pounded in 12"
BY MISTAKE, one of the corners got a 24" rebar when we had to move the hut, pounded 12" in & it FAILED! (sat or sun storm pre event - worked itself out)
replaced that with a 36" pounded 18" in and it lasted the whole week without a hitch - the hut was better dust protection than the garage shade structures. - not a single peep out of the thing!!!
i use the galaxy hut design, use a 20ft bungee i found at harbor freight to provide tensile strength to the center rib, front to back (will tell you how i wrap it if you need).
i use 100ft of rope to criss-cross over the top of the hut to keep tarp from ballooning - had to tighten it so that it indented the tarp in between the ribs to avoid balooning and help the hut work as one.
there is a rope thru the gromets on each ground side and that rope is staked to the ground between the hut ribs. i have about a 3" gap between tarp and ground on both sides.
**fyi: i had to use two 12" pin type stakes on the grommet rope in between the hut ribs to keep it down due to winds!! i use the pin type stakes here for safety instead of the rebar.
people in my camp love the shade, i loved the wind and dust protection, but they think it is too much of a PIA to deal with
all well, it is for me and not them - plus they don't ever bitch about the shade when they are enjoying it!!

overall, when i got everything tightened, i didn't even have to think about it for the rest of the time - and i was there for 11 days. i absolutely love the thing and will bring it back next year. it is 14'w x 20'long x 7' tall & covered with creative shelters sunblocker tarp.

i just have to get better at laying it out.............

i look forward to hearing how your setups worked and any lessons you learned.

[BBadger]

The monkeyhuts we brought (4, but used only 3) worked perfectly in our setup. I have never slept better. No sun in the tents at all because the side was facing the location of the sunrise, and there were vehicles around to block the sun from other angles. No wind problems; however, the monkey huts were surrounded by other structures and somewhat in the middle of the city (F ring).

There were two designs of monkeyhuts. Mine and a buddies. Both fared well. Mine was a 12x10 standard-sized monkeyhut, while the other was a 20ft long one. I'll describe mine:

- I used 20" long, 5/8" diameter rebar stakes pounded in with 6-8" above the surface.
- Each rebar stake was topped with a 4" long piece of garden hose sliced 2/3rds down so they could fit over the stake, and duct-taped to fit snugly. The initial idea came from an off-hand comment from Bob in response to a question about protecting the rebar from damage. The hose worked well in ensuring the PVC could not rattle on the stake, as well as providing some friction so long as the arch shape was maintained.
- The spine of each monkeyhut was held together with a ratchet strap.
- I used Harpster brand, heavy-duty, sun-blocking, silvered tarps, fitted to 20'x12'. Harpster tarps are measured according to their finished size, so the tarp was actually somewhat larger than the monkeyhut, providing about 1ft more length on each end of the monkeyhut. We simply bungied the front grommets, and then used a lattice-type roping from the grommets on the other side to the guyline--providing a little bit more shade. We also fixed the tarp to the poles and to the floor tarp.
- On one of the monkeyhuts I had two 18" L-shaped guyline stakes, pounded flush at 60 degrees into the playa. On the front guyline stake, a nylon climbing rope was fixed with two runs to the spine in the center. On the back was the lattice-work attached to the tarp. We also put a 12'x16' Costco tarp as the floor of the monkeyhut because we were near a shower and didn't want any accidental flooding affecting our sleeping area (it did not).
- On the second monkeyhut, the back was fixed to the trailer we had under the monkeyhut (with the food and such). We also fixed a loose camo cloth for shade to this one.

Overall it was a success. Still I don't know how much of it was because of how well packed they were into the surrounding structures and other monkey huts.

What I would do differently:

- Learn how to ensure that the stakes are properly spaced and squared. We had some spines that were not as straight as we'd have liked.
- Find a method to fix the oversized tarps properly to the monkeyhuts. Those extra 1-2ft were substantial.

Suggestions:

- Buy good heavy tarps like the Harpster heavy silver tarps (you can get them on Amazon for $40 each). They are very well made and allow no light through.
- Cover your stakes with hose. It provides a very solid connection between your PVC and the stakes so that they won't rattle, or come off. If you're using thinner stakes, wrap them up with some tape or something to ensure those hose toppers are snug.
- Create or buy stakes that stay in the playa. I had full faith in my 20" long 5/8" diameter stakes. They didn't bend, were very hard to pull out even with vice grips and crowbars, and the hose fit perfectly on them. They would've been there long after the rest of the structure blew away.
- Use thick heavy-duty duct tape for your wrapping. It SUCKS using tons of thinner duct tape to wrap stuff. I used up nearly an entire roll of it.
- Put a tarp in your monkeyhut as the floor. Even though we didn't need it for shower flooding, it was a nice surface to have the tents on and you can even block out dust if you need to.
- Learn how to set up the stake footprint (perhaps with a marked PVC pipe for measurement) so you don't have to reposition. A tape measure was helpful, but didn't guarantee that the stakes were square.
- Pack the monkey huts close to each other so that they can serve as wind blocks for each other.
- Know the sun and wind angles for planning out your placement. Ours was perfect.

[Jackass]

Use a mason's line next time and make sure you're driving the rebar plumb. Works for me.

[MacGlenver]

Mason's line was awesome to ensure we had our hut square. We did 3 residential huts with 20x20 silver tarps (~11'x20' final dimensions) and 1 party hut with a 30x30 tarp (20'x30' final dimensions). All huts were constructed with grey, 10' pieces of Schedule 40 PVC electrical conduit (it has premade bell-shaped ends so each piece just plugs snugly into the other, no cutting/duct taping needed). The 3 residential huts used a 20' ridge pole laid on top of the 20' ribs, attached to the ribs with duct tape, then a guy line down to rebar on each end. The larger party hut used no ridge pole, and instead had 2 nylon webbing straps down the center (4 feet apart) which dropped down to double rebar on either end.

All huts held up well, though the the 20'x30' hut was significantly harder to hold down. This was mainly due to the fact that it was our party hut, so we didnt align it for best wind protection, but instead aligned it to be perpendicular to F street, which was basically the worst wind performance we could have done. The wind came from the SSW and hit the back right corner of the hut (when facing the hut from the street) and eventually ripped out the corner grommet. We had already used all of our paracord to do cross straps over our residential huts (using MSG groundhogs for the guy-line stakes (amazing things)), so luckily we were able to get a text out to our friend who brought another 400' of rope the next morning. Once we had the cross ropes on, we strung several pieces of muslin (1 yard wide cotton fabric) down from the back of the hut to the ground at a 45 degree angle, attached to bungie balls. This added great afternoon shade and actually helped quite a bit with wind performance.

Prior to doing the cross straps over the top of the residential huts, those things were ready to fly away (we had 2 people holding the PVC down on the rebar since it was seriously lifting off). We ran out of bungie balls for the party hut, so we did the sewing technique with para cord thru the gromets and around the PVC. We stuck each end of the paracord under the corner PVC between the PVC and rebar to hold the corners down.

Oh! And the most critical addition was something we saw another camp do. Once our party hut was up, the wind was basically crushing the back end. Our 30 foot back rib was being pushed almost all the way to the ground and we thought it would snap. We added 2 pieces of 10' PVC, crossed into an X pattern directly under the last rib, bungie balled in the center of the X, slid over rebar driven at 45 degrees directly under the center of the back rib. We then fed nylon straps THRU the PVC, tied it to the rib on one end and to the rebar on the ground at the other end (then jammed the PVC down over the knot so that it wouldnt move). This held the PVC in place and provided vertical support. We did this with 1" PVC, but would have much preferred to have 1.25" or 1.5" PVC for more rigidity. Not sure if this explanation makes sense, but that hut would have been destroyed if we hadnt stolen the idea from our neighbors (though they had planned to do this already, so their stuff was attached with pre-drilled holes and bolts).

PS -- my girlfriend got a 4 inch rebar gash on her leg just before we were about to cover the rebar for the main party hut. Amazingly, the guy across from us was a doctor who rushed over and had sterile suture kits. He gave her 20 beatuiful stitches in about 30 minutes, and sent her off with a bunch of antibiotics. Saved both our burns. We were careful about the rebar, but not careful enough. Lesson is, cover the rebar IMMEDIATELY. No exceptions, no delays. Cover that shit.

[maladroit]

I ended up not using any X connectors, just two T connectors. However, they were kind of special T connectors, in that they weren't officially stocked at my Home Depot.

The two ends of the spine: A 1.5x1.5x1.25 T connector. I used PVC glue to put a 2 foot section of 1.25 pipe into the 1.25 side of the T connector. Then I cut up three pieces of 1.25 pipe into 5 foot sections. On five of those sections, I put bolts through 1 foot from the ends (you'd adjust this to fit your tarp). On the last piece, I put a bolt through the center.

Assembly was very simple. Make a rib using two 10 foot pieces of 1" pipe, and one 5 foot piece of 1.25" pipe. Slide the 1" pipe into the middle section until it hits the bolts. If this is an end rib, slide the 1.5" part of the T connector over it all. Use rebar etc etc.

The center spine is two 1" pipes slid into the last piece of 1.25, with the bolt in the center. You just bend the end ribs apart, and slide the center spine into the pieces of 1.25 glued into the T connectors. Lay the center spine across the other ribs and lash in place with bungee cords.

There is no way the spine can fall out of the end ribs, or the center connector...it would have to move over 2 feet to do that. It's all very flexible yet secure. I attached the tarp to the end ribs and ground as usual, and crossed two ropes over the top to keep the tarp from billowing too much.

Bill of material for a 20' x 15' hut (aside from tarp):
(12pcs) 1" schedule 40 PVC
(4pc) 1.25" schedule 40 PVC
(2pc) 1.5x1.5x1.25 PVC T connector

This is a not-to-scale drawing of part of the connector setup: