Kerry wins First Debate hands down

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:31 pm

well? Go Johnny Go!

buckethead alien · Post by **buckethead alien** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:38 pm

Only listened on the NPR stream. What did Kerry say, you know what I mean?

You know what Bush said: Mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, mixed messages, etc.... Bullshit, but effective.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:39 pm

Oh, joy ... one weasel beats another weasel. If you win the rat race, you are still a rat.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 7:50 pm

I never listen to GB so it wasn't as obvious to me when I was "Keeping on message" Kerry seemed a lot stiffer and was a little clumsy about "keeping on message" It seemed like GB made an overt and maybe successful campaign to get the security moms on his side by mentioning the terrorists in Russia killing kids twice. PBS pendants are calling it a draw. But I don't think so people vote informed by their emotions not their knowledge.

I find it frightening GW came off as well as he did.

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 8:02 pm

awwww,

They both sucked.

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Thu Sep 30, 2004 9:32 pm

DVD Burner wrote:awwww,

They both sucked.

and this my friends IS the post of the day IMO.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:00 am

bullD wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:awwww,

They both sucked.
and this my friends IS the post of the day IMO.

unfortunately, so patently DVD, the observation is not surprising.

Kerry/Bush - Bush/Kerry. out of 275+ million, these are our choices!

i am glad i only have 40 or so many more years on earth.

unjonharley · Post by **unjonharley** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:38 am

My mortality is most any time now. thank you

heliedandksdied

robbidobbs · Post by **robbidobbs** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 6:54 am

I sat and listened to the "debates" curled up on my comfy-couch, and took notes. Here's what I wrote, and you who saw it, tell me if I'm missing something:
GW was doing the evangelical style of repeating lines like: "A free Iraq will mean..." It will mean cheap oil, and continued control of the cartel, asshole.
GW mentioned "false deadlines", well what do you think we've been doing this whole fucking "war"??? Scheduling attacks to coincide with election dates.
Every time GW was given the 90 sec come-back, he'd do this irritating laugh, and constantly spoke in a whiny voice. Irritating as fuck.
Nice that JK noted that ONLY the oil ministry was guarded, which calls attention that this is about oil, not "freedom" and that we're occupiers, not "liberators".
GW kept saying "the Grand Diversion" and "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" giving people "mixed messages" Well FUCK GW, you didn't give example one repudiating what JK said, you just gave us an example of official party-line, solid front LIES.
If GW gets casualty reports daily, why won't he look at pics of those casualties, nor let the media post them? It's like it's a fucking clean war!
GW responded to JK's insistance that he's been consistant by saying this vapid slogan: Your only consistancy is your inconsistancy. That no matter how many times JK listed his consistant policy actions, GW would respond he was inconsistant. Weak. "Nuh, uh! No you're not! whine whine whine"
Then he'd launch into a Bush Ad, not addressing the issue that was just covered at all.
When GW noted # of troops lost, I thought he'd start crying. adding a cute anecdote about Missy's husband. Oh, tug on our heartstrings!
The credibility issue was totally glossed over, probably because GW's credibility is lost, and Kerry's got a solid vet following.
GW used the words "liberty", "freedom" etc way too many times, like he's got a fucking monopoly on the concepts. What about OUR liberties and freedoms that he fucking took away from us?
JK talked about passing the global test, and GW just whined that THEY weren't doing what HE wanted them to. JW noted that's NOT how you build coalitions. GW didn't do a very good job when he blurted out that we had a 30 some odd participation. JK pointed out we were footing 90% of the bill and personelle. The wonks should like this point a lot.
I nearly shat when GW said "I just know how this world works."
GW used the word "character" once. JK came back with how GW is not acknowleging the facts.
What is the most critical issue? Nuclear Proliferation, pulling the conversation back to N Korea. GW sounded really whiney when he agreed with this. It was like he said "oh, yeah...what he said."
He did a LOT of hmmmm's and uh's. Really bad audio presentation, compared to JK's tight, courtroom debate style.
GW sounded nervous as a kid in the corner every time he tried to pull facts out of his ass. Like he hadn't rehearsed them that well, or was making things up.

So my verdict on who won the "debates" is a resounding JK won. And any mainstream media source that says otherwise is obviously a Conspiracy Dupe and should be exposed as such.

RobbiDobbs clear

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:08 am

robbidobbs wrote:I sat and listened to the "debates" curled up on my comfy-couch, and took notes. Here's what I wrote, and you who saw it, tell me if I'm missing something:
GW was doing the evangelical style of repeating lines like: "A free Iraq will mean..." It will mean cheap oil, and continued control of the cartel, asshole.
GW mentioned "false deadlines", well what do you think we've been doing this whole fucking "war"??? Scheduling attacks to coincide with election dates.
Every time GW was given the 90 sec come-back, he'd do this irritating laugh, and constantly spoke in a whiny voice. Irritating as fuck.
Nice that JK noted that ONLY the oil ministry was guarded, which calls attention that this is about oil, not "freedom" and that we're occupiers, not "liberators".
GW kept saying "the Grand Diversion" and "wrong war, wrong place, wrong time" giving people "mixed messages" Well FUCK GW, you didn't give example one repudiating what JK said, you just gave us an example of official party-line, solid front LIES.
If GW gets casualty reports daily, why won't he look at pics of those casualties, nor let the media post them? It's like it's a fucking clean war!
GW responded to JK's insistance that he's been consistant by saying this vapid slogan: Your only consistancy is your inconsistancy. That no matter how many times JK listed his consistant policy actions, GW would respond he was inconsistant. Weak. "Nuh, uh! No you're not! whine whine whine"
Then he'd launch into a Bush Ad, not addressing the issue that was just covered at all.
When GW noted # of troops lost, I thought he'd start crying. adding a cute anecdote about Missy's husband. Oh, tug on our heartstrings!
The credibility issue was totally glossed over, probably because GW's credibility is lost, and Kerry's got a solid vet following.
GW used the words "liberty", "freedom" etc way too many times, like he's got a fucking monopoly on the concepts. What about OUR liberties and freedoms that he fucking took away from us?
JK talked about passing the global test, and GW just whined that THEY weren't doing what HE wanted them to. JW noted that's NOT how you build coalitions. GW didn't do a very good job when he blurted out that we had a 30 some odd participation. JK pointed out we were footing 90% of the bill and personelle. The wonks should like this point a lot.
I nearly shat when GW said "I just know how this world works."
GW used the word "character" once. JK came back with how GW is not acknowleging the facts.
What is the most critical issue? Nuclear Proliferation, pulling the conversation back to N Korea. GW sounded really whiney when he agreed with this. It was like he said "oh, yeah...what he said."
He did a LOT of hmmmm's and uh's. Really bad audio presentation, compared to JK's tight, courtroom debate style.
GW sounded nervous as a kid in the corner every time he tried to pull facts out of his ass. Like he hadn't rehearsed them that well, or was making things up.

So my verdict on who won the "debates" is a resounding JK won. And any mainstream media source that says otherwise is obviously a Conspiracy Dupe and should be exposed as such.

RobbiDobbs clear

this is worthy of repitition...thanks robi

souldancer · Post by **souldancer** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:24 am

I agree with you robbidobbs, 100%.

On another note...if you are not registered to vote, you have until Saturday! You still have time! Go to the DMV or the post office, it's painless! Go register and then vote on Nov. 2nd!

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 8:39 am

cowboyangel wrote:
robbidobbs wrote: So my verdict on who won the "debates" is a resounding JK won. And any mainstream media source that says otherwise is obviously a Conspiracy Dupe and should be exposed as such.

RobbiDobbs clear
this is worthy of repitition...thanks robi

it is spelled repetition...

and i don't concur...

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:19 am

Just like the leftist tax and spend liberal bullshit....Yeah, GW did not present his views in a polished way, yeah, he appeared clumsy...BUT, GW's grasp on the way the world actually works and what it takes is far bettewr than JK's butterflies and bubble gum dreamland he spoke about. Sure, JK seemed a better speaker last night, but not in substance, and his moronic leftist "National Healthcare" crap.....he would rather spend the war money on??? Puhleeze, yeah if you want a USA Kaiser doing your open heart surgery! This at a cost of trillions for poor treatment. JK is no leader, he is not fit, he is not sure where he wants to be on the war on terror, and as GW said, he voted to go into Iraq based on the same intelligence as JK had when he also voted to go in...Then JK discounting the efforts of other countries contributions, his failure to back , hell, not even talking about leading our troops...he undercuts our military, just as after he returned from his 4 months in Vietnam..he costs lives. It doesnt matter your take on the debate...G.W.Bush WILL be reelected...and you whining leftists can take that to the bank!

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:24 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Just like the leftist tax and spend liberal bullshit....Yeah, GW did not present his views in a polished way, yeah, he appeared clumsy...BUT, GW's grasp on the way the world actually works and what it takes is far bettewr than JK's butterflies and bubble gum dreamland he spoke about...

G.W.Bush WILL be reelected...and you whining leftists can take that to the bank!

do you actually speak in the same animated manner as you type?

as bob would say... mercy mercy mercy

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:30 am

shouldn't that go on the "Troll Alert" thread?

Or "Being Rude for the sake of being Rude"?

calicowboy925 · Post by **calicowboy925** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:13 am

Precisely what i am talking about, you leftist socialists who pee sitting down cuz that's how mommy taught you can spew your opinions about your guy, but can't handle an opposing viewpoint with out crying....and if you think my last comment was not on the mark...do you really think JK can take Penn, Ohio and Fla. to win the necessary electoral college votes??? Hmmmm...yeah, you might have to quit stomping your feet and holding your breath to actually research the reasoning behind that and figure out what it means...Oh, I can hear the cries that GW didnt win the popular vote now....SUCKERS....dont you pay enough taxes for drug addicts and other entitlements already????? Hmmmmm...just a thought

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:31 am

Well, calicoboy, there is a difference between "Telling it like it is" and dumping a pile of horse shit in front of someone. The first is done with enough respect between individuals to allow for give and take, for ideas to be passed back and forth. The other is an adolescent prank.

From the moment you entered these threads you have blown, bragged, and bustled about with momumental self importance. That, also, is adolescent (and a gigantic sign of insecurity). In other words; you are not displaying either maturity or manners.

I don't know if you want to make friends on this board, but if you do, you're going about it all wrong. I also don't know if you want anyone to respect you on this board, because you're kinda' missing the mark on that one, too. However, if you want everyone on this board to think you're a fucking idiot, you're right on the mark.

Dunno' what you really want... but you're real close to getting ignored around here. And that, for a troll, is living death. It's your choice.

BTW, do the initials "BRR" mean anything to you?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:51 am

calicowboy925 wrote:Hmmmmm...just a thought

actually, the noun "thought" is not a something i actually associate with your diatribes, calicowboy925.

diatribe
noun: thunderous verbal attack

Main Entry: 1thought
Pronunciation: 'thot
past and past participle of THINK

Main Entry: 1think
Pronunciation: 'thi[ng]k
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): thought /'thot/; think·ing
Etymology: Middle English thenken, from Old English thencan; akin to Old High German denken to think, Latin tongEre to know -- more at THANKS
transitive senses
1 : to form or have in the mind
2 : to have as an intention <thought to return early>
3 a : to have as an opinion <think it's so> b : to regard as : CONSIDER <think the rule unfair>
4 a : to reflect on : PONDER <think the matter over> b : to determine by reflecting <think what to do next>
5 : to call to mind : REMEMBER <he never thinks to ask how we do>
6 : to devise by thinking -- usually used with up <thought up a plan to escape>
7 : to have as an expectation : ANTICIPATE <we didn't think we'd have any trouble>
8 a : to center one's thoughts on <talks and thinks business> b : to form a mental picture of
9 : to subject to the processes of logical thought <think things out>
intransitive senses
1 a : to exercise the powers of judgment, conception, or inference : REASON b : to have in the mind or call to mind a thought
2 a : to have the mind engaged in reflection : MEDITATE b : to consider the suitability <thought of her for president>
3 : to have a view or opinion <thinks of himself as a poet>
4 : to have concern -- usually used with of <a man must think first of his family>
5 : to consider something likely : SUSPECT <may happen sooner than you think>
- think·er noun
- think better of : to reconsider and make a wiser decision
- think much of : to view with satisfaction : APPROVE -- usually used in negative constructions 
synonyms THINK, CONCEIVE, IMAGINE, FANCY, REALIZE, ENVISAGE, ENVISION mean to form an idea of. THINK implies the entrance of an idea into one's mind with or without deliberate consideration or reflection . CONCEIVE suggests the forming and bringing forth and usually developing of an idea, plan, or design <conceived of a new marketing approach>. IMAGINE stresses a visualization <imagine you're at the beach>. FANCY suggests an imagining often unrestrained by reality but spurred by desires <fancied himself a super athlete>. REALIZE stresses a grasping of the significance of what is conceived or imagined <realized the enormity of the task ahead>. ENVISAGE and ENVISION imply a conceiving or imagining that is especially clear or detailed <envisaged a totally computerized operation> <envisioned a cure for the disease>.
synonyms THINK, COGITATE, REFLECT, REASON, SPECULATE, DELIBERATE mean to use one's powers of conception, judgment, or inference. THINK is general and may apply to any mental activity, but used alone often suggests attainment of clear ideas or conclusions <teaches students how to think>. COGITATE implies deep or intent thinking <cogitated on the mysteries of nature>. REFLECT suggests unhurried consideration of something recalled to the mind <reflecting on fifty years of married life>. REASON stresses consecutive logical thinking <able to reason brilliantly in debate>. SPECULATE implies reasoning about things theoretical or problematic <speculated on the fate of the lost explorers>. DELIBERATE suggests slow or careful reasoning before forming an opinion or reaching a conclusion or decision <the jury deliberated for five hours>.

and, i must concur with samtzu's observations.

tisha2 · Post by **tisha2** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:54 am

Sam & Joel -

bullseyes, baby. let me stand back a bit, that flame is HOT.

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 10:59 am

I sure hope Kerry comes from behind like people say he's good at. I've heard way too many interviews, on the radio here in Canada, with the general US population that go like this:

"Well, Bush is the kind of man I'd feel comfortable inviting over for coffee, and he believes in God so that's good enough for me." Ugh.

Do you know that one of the next admendments to the Patriot Act says that the US can deport people to countries that are known to use torture methods, which goes against the Geneva (?) Convention? Getting other countries to do their dirty work, very nice.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:09 am

spend

dude, I smacked your ass down with this lie in another thread a few days ago. My arm is tired from swinging the clue stick.

I will put this one to Joel, who even though we often find ourselves at opposite sides of the ideological debate, I respect.

Joel, not a lover of Democrats, how do you feel about Bush's spending record?

bullD · Post by **bullD** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:36 am

What is very hard is that NEITHER of the candidates has totally impressed me. I know I know, is this possible? Simply Joel voiced this frustration by saying, "Kerry/Bush - Bush/Kerry. out of 275+ million, these are our choices!" If I misunderstood Joel, please knock me down.
Boils down to this, WE have to really fukin do our homework on this election, read read read and then read some more. Don't blindly go in one direction because that is your affiliation. Dig on this one, you might be surprised what you find.
Oh, and what has happened to, umm, ehhh, oh yea Nader?

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:49 am

stuart wrote:
spend
dude, I smacked your ass down with this lie in another thread a few days ago. My arm is tired from swinging the clue stick.

I will put this one to Joel, who even though we often find ourselves at opposite sides of the ideological debate, I respect.

Joel, not a lover of Democrats, how do you feel about Bush's spending record?

i think that there was an excess of cash laying around not "working"
i think the only person with balls enough to borrow was the federal government... 'cause there was no corporate investing going on
i think the spending was a very necessary evil
i think social welfare programs do not produce wealth
and i think we will pay the tab for this administration, just like we paid the tab for all the previous ones...

does all this make me happy, no... yet i don't delude myself in thinking it was supposed to make me happy.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 11:54 am

The Red Pill or the Blue Pill?

Was this really a sign from the Matrix about the Debate?!

GWB = Blue tie

Kerry = Red tie

What does it MEAN?!

--------------------------------

Morpheus: You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. (a red pill is shown in his other hand) You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Somebody Help!

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:21 pm

I watched the debate on C-SPAN. I don't have a television but the clubhouse in my apartment complex does, so it was a nice, stimulating evening out, watching and talking it over with my neighbours.

It was immediately apparent that Bush was getting spanked and sent to bed without supper, right from the start. Someone came in about five minutes after it started and said, "How's it going?" I said, "Kerry's eating him alive." That pretty much summed it up.

I defocused off the issues and carefully watched each candidate's body language. It became obvious that Bush was speaking from the heart and to be fair, that is his strength and it's not a bad quality to have as a man. As a leader, it's not. He's good at manipulating emotions.

Kerry was obviously the more left-brained. As soon as Bush would start talking, Kerry was right there, pen in hand, taking notes and formulating his responses succinctly and deliberately. Speaking from the heart is all well and good but after about ten minutes it became like he was speaking from rote, that he really wasn't thinking. Kerry's a thinker. That, to me, is the hallmark of a superior leader.

A thinker means that he'll follow up. A thinker means that whatever he says, he's thought about, digested, and truly believes. Bush repeated himself so much that I posited the suggestion that he was trying to brainwash us.

I actually laughed when he had that big brainfart in the middle of the debate. He was totally caught flat-footed. I forget which question it was, but I think those of you who caught it on television know which one I'm talking about

After that, he just came apart at the seams.

I think next debate we'll play a drinking game, take a drink everytime Bush repeats himself. They made a good point, it is possible to be certain of something and still be wrong. And I liked how Kerry ripped into Bush for taking resources, equipment and personnel away from the main objective in Tora Bora to go off on this Iraq boondoggle, which is clearly a family vendetta, nothing else.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:28 pm

This drinking game worked well:

-----------------------------------------------------

Debate Drinking Game!
------------------------------------------------
Start drinking for real after the jump.

Drink One Sip If:
Anyone says "terrorism"
Anyone says "Halliburton"
Anyone says "flip flop"
Anyone says "Saddam Hussein"
Anyone blames "the media"
Anyone mentions their own military service
Anyone says "September 11"
One candidate interrupts another candidate

Drink Two Sips If:
Bush says "cut and run"
Kerry says "W stands for wrong"
Either candidate talks past their time limit
Kerry brings up Bush's "Mission Accomplished" moment
Bush mentions Crawford, TX
Anyone looks at the wrong camera
Anyone whips out "evidence"
Anyone says "Osama bin Laden"
Anyone mentions blogs
Anyone invokes the hurricane sympathy vote
Anyone mentions "North Korea"
Kerry mentions Bush wants to reinstate the draft
Everytime you see anyone wearing the yellow "LiveSTRONG" bracelet

Finish Your Glass If:
Anyone in the audience gets dragged out of the auditorium
Anyone in the audience gets off an unscripted question
Bush mispronounces any word or name
Anyone says "Osama bin Hidin'"
Anyone uses a sports metaphor
Anyone attempts to speak Spanish to pander to Latinos

Do a Shot If:
Bush mentions the deficit
Bush accuses Kerry of being "French on terrorism"
Kerry accuses Bush of being a pansy for avoiding Vietnam
Bush admits he made a mistake ("miscalculation" counts)
Ralph Nader shows up insisting on airtime

Finish the Bottle If:
Anyone challenges anyone to a duel

Tricky · Post by **Tricky** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:29 pm

Here's an interesting internet campaign called (of all things) BUSH LOSES

I found it via a blog a buddy of mine (also a burner) writes:

you have to scroll down a bit but I'll copy some of it here:

Posit: That Google can act as a proxy for the mass-mind; that a given number of hits on Google can act as a meter for determining the popularity of any given idea.

Posit: That by increasing the number of links to a particular phrase, or even the presence of a particular phrase on the web, one can alter the Google ranking given a particular idea.

Posit: That the internet (and Google specifically) has a positive feedback relationship with public consciousness; that as ideas rise in their ranking on popular search engines, they will also grow in popularity out in the real world, just as political polls not only measure public opinion but also lead public opinion. Winners tend to win; losers tend to lose.

Posit: The current president of the United States is a loser.

Thus, the project:

Bush Loses US Election

thoughts?

diane o'thirst · Post by **diane o'thirst** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 12:44 pm

After the broadcast C-SPAN took calls from around the nation. A caller from Ohio or thereabouts came on in support of Bush and during her schpiel, she made a Freudian slip and said "President Kerry" instead of "Senator Kerry."

President Kerry. It has a ring to it.

V I S U A L I Z E: "PRESIDENT KERRY."

glam_daddy · Post by **glam_daddy** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:40 pm

This is from my web page
http://www.thefreespeechzone.net

Last nights debate was, for some a first chance to see the two candidates side by side. The differences between the two were night and day. Kerry came off as well versed, firm, presidential, and well spoken. Bush on the other hand was very defensive. He seemed put off by the fact that he should have to answer questions and was often repeating himself and at a lack for words. Bush seemed frustrated ( http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/rm/democra ... /faces.ram -- video clip).

And here is the kicker, If Kerry won the foreign policy debate - Bush's perceived greatest strength - he is going to absolutely lay waste to him in the other debates. And the Cheney / Edward's debate? Please. Edward's will trounce Chneney.

Bush often seemed to be unable to fill a 2 minute time slot without going over and over the safe talking points. He also made a few huge mistakes. On the subject of homeland security, an issue of great importance, he flubbed big time. Kerry had just laid out a huge list of Bush failures in this area, and given a chance ti respond Bush said

"I don't think we want to get to how he's going to pay for all these promises."

Excuse me? Did he just imply that the safety of the american people is not worthy of the same kind of spending we have seen for the war on Iraq? That won't go over well for voters who are getting the bill for the several hundred BILLION we are spending on this war. Much of that money is unaccounted for. And you want the tax cuts for the richest people in our country to be permanent? Big mistake. I guess there is no money for homeland security. But I thought you were making America safer Mr. Preznit!

After watching the debate I turned on to see how the pundits were spinning it. All of them gave kerry the win. Even Fox "news" was giving props to Kerry. Heres a few quotes from Fox last night:

---------------------------------
"There was a chance that the president would knock Kerry out of the race tonight. ... I think Kerry survived and I think he did pretty well tonight. Kerry was forceful and articulate," said William Kristol, editor of the Weekly Standard.

"Kerry did a pretty good job of making the case that the invasion of Iraq was wrong."

Kondracke said Bush began to stumble as Kerry stopped being nervous and became more forceful. "The president sighed a lot in this debate and he seemed tired," Kondracke said.

Dick Morris said, "Bush was as unfocused, undisciplined, unenergetic ... as he was during the pre-primary debates in 2000." Morris, a strong critic of Kerry's policy positions said, "I got the feeling Bush was distracted; Bush didn't answer questions quickly, and he stumbled all over himself."
------------------------------------

My fiance noticed while watching fox, that right after the debate, on the crawl at the bottom was an announcement that the terror level had just been raised. Imagine my surprise. Booo! Bush playing politics with terrorism.

Even the conservative bloggers seems shocked. Heres some quotes:

-----------------------------------
"If you want to be seen as having no credibility, if you want to be regarded as a blind cheerleader, then go ahead and say that it was a draw or that Bush won."

"I prayed so hard that God would be with our president this evening. But I have begun to wonder whether if he has been abandoned now or not. I hope not."
-----------------------------------

Here is a look at the polls taken after the debate. Notice how one of these kids is doing their own thing. Fox is the only one who even has it close. But we aready know that the Faux crowd has proven beyond any doubt that they are pretty out of touch with reality. As seen here --> http://www.thefreespeechzone.net/images/foxpoll_lg.jpg

Out of touch:

A nice 5 minute compilation of Bush making an ass of himself

http://www.pleasurecaptains.com/favor/howsmall.html

transcript of Bush getting asswhupped in debate

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/ ... index.html[/b]

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:44 pm

i am left with the impression, people saw what they wanted to see during the debate and came up with conclusions to support what they wanted.

simply an observation on my part.

Kerry wins First Debate hands down

Kerry wins First Debate hands down

Listened to it on NPR

Re: Listened to it on NPR

Re: Listened to it on NPR

~

BUSH LOSES

From The Free Speech Zone