Does "love" mean no disagreements?

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:22 pm

I was laughing too hard to talk to her about it much yesterday. Seems a friend of hers stood up in the library (1st graders, mind you) and started shaking his booty singing "who wants to see my butt?" ... my daughter who has known this fellow since pre-school and loves him to pieces stood up and started singing with him ... and I guess just got a little carried away.

I talked to her a little bit about it last night and she is completely crushed with embarrasment but I couldn't help busting into giggles a couple of times and had to hide my face from her lest she get the wrong idea. I think she had no idea that exposing one's hiney at school would result in so much commotion. She does now.

GuinivereElise · Post by **GuinivereElise** » Fri Oct 01, 2004 4:12 pm

Geekster...

that is SUCH a precious story!! (the mooning... (well, both, actually)). Excellent. I hope you weren't TOO awfully harsh on the poor little one.

(kinda looks like a butt, huh??)

Tee hee!

nipples · Post by **nipples** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 7:20 am

torefresh:

"Everybody loves somebody, does that mean you always see eye to eye? Does "respect" mean "conflict adverse"? Does "honoring the other" mean agreeing with every dumbshit thing that someone blurts out without thinking?

I'm just wondering." (blslv)

The Peace Protestor & the Soldier both fight for peace. Neither is peacful in time, but in ideology both are.

To truly promote peace is to ~Be~ peaceful by acknowledging that there is peace.

Love is acknowledgment of Unity.

Anything else is not love, but attack.
There are not concessions to the state of Love.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:50 pm

I figured it out last night.....love means reviewing your behavior and just simply looking at it for a start. That's the way to start the process goin

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 8:57 am

Badger wrote:Distill it down to the obvious.

If they disagree with you then they're an idiot.

Send them packing.

It'll only get worse.

brilliant observation.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Mon Oct 04, 2004 9:02 am

humbug. Takes all the fun out of "processing" and "validation" and all that crap. Kicking them out is the EASY way. Make 'em suffer a little first.

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 12:45 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
Badger wrote:Distill it down to the obvious.

If they disagree with you then they're an idiot.

Send them packing.

It'll only get worse.
brilliant observation. 8)

The problem is that the original assertion that you can "distill it down" is rarely met in the workings of the human psyche - especially when it comes to disagreements and hot arguments. There's usually multiple levels going on at once. Whatever is on the surface, (the so-called obvious) is often just a straw dog. People stay on the surface because they don't want to go into the painful, vulnerable emotional juice underneath that's usually feeding the disagreement. [If you need an example for the 'cites' kids, just refer to badburners' justification for his posts in the Jagged redneck thread. What was really going on is that he couldn't tolerate that exposure of vulnerability in someone.]

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 1:37 pm

geekster wrote:humbug. Takes all the fun out of "processing" and "validation" and all that crap. Kicking them out is the EASY way. Make 'em suffer a little first.

Geekster - by the way, I think I'm starting to worship you. Can we agree that's OK???

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:04 pm

hm. funny timing, the first time i noticed this post even.

last night i had HUGE disagreements with someone i love. the sort of thing where, had anyone else said it, i would have walked away in disgust or flamed them into a trauma ward. but we were able to sit and talk about it all and not go ballistic - being honest about where we were angry, and such - because we share an incredible trust. by the time i took 5 it was no longer to cool down, it was just to get in a better head space.

we disagree on so much. nearly every day. which means that the learning curve has been phenomenal for both of us. and damn, it's crazy-good.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 2:52 pm

self-analysis in the yogic way is the thing wherein we'll capture the consciousness of the king (queen)

blyslv · Post by **blyslv** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:11 pm

ITYM: Know thyself ... ?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 3:26 pm

ja man

regynalonglank · Post by **regynalonglank** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:00 pm

usually it takes me like days to get over being pissed off at someone i'm with...and since angry sex does nothing for me, that kinda sucks!

the wierdest thing happened to me with my playa boy, i got totally mad at him, like rippingly pissed off at something that would have taken me forever to get over off playa, and i just processed it, myself, without saying anything to him, and got over it in like ten minutes. it was totally wierd! it was like being a toddler or something...ten minutes later it was like it had never happened. lucky me...turned out to be one of the best nights of my life!

sometimes talking about it just makes it worse...

when i got married (don't worry, i'm over it now, and i don't recommend it either!) the guy who altered my wedding dress in manhattan told me that the best relationship advice was to just keep your mouth shut. and if you are mad about something that goes double.

i hate to say it, but i think he was right!

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 5:46 pm

regynalonglank wrote:usually it takes angry sex!

[ bwah haha (or whatever it is DV burner says) couldn't resist this special feature on the quote function - Dana, right in the middle of the quote no less]

the wierdest thing happened to me with my playa boy, i got totally mad at him, like rippingly pissed off at something that would have taken me forever to get over off playa, and i just processed it, myself, without saying anything to him, and got over it in like ten minutes. it was totally wierd! it was like being a toddler or something...ten minutes later it was like it had never happened. lucky me...turned out to be one of the best nights of my life!

sometimes talking about it just makes it worse...

when i got married (don't worry, i'm over it now, and i don't recommend it either!) the guy who altered my wedding dress in manhattan told me that the best relationship advice was to just keep your mouth shut. and if you are mad about something that goes double.

i hate to say it, but i think he was right!

Sometimes you gotta sort your stuff out first before launching in. I think most people's problem is that they never figured out what to do with anger. I love anger - applied like a number 11 scalpel right where the lesion is, me them her - with just enough anesthesia of care/love to make it tolerable. As soon as its purpose is done it evaporates as the ephemeral emotion it is. Too many people like to harbor and hoard their anger and then beat the shit out of someone with it for the sadistic pleasure.

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:09 pm

Sorry Regy - couldn't resist. I'm sure I'll pay for it eventually.

Just one little expansion on the topic of anger. Just think about what you're really angry about. If it's a situation thats just stuck, anger is often the force I use to get unstuck and provide clarity.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Oct 06, 2004 6:54 pm

regynalonglank wrote:usually it takes me like days to get over being pissed off at someone i'm with...and since angry sex does nothing for me, that kinda sucks!

I hear that. If I am really pissed or feel I have been taken advantage of or abused in some way, it can take several days for me to feel like being physical with someone I am close to. Other people seem to be completely different. One guy in my camp this year even mentioned that "Make-up sex is worth fighting for". I just don't get that at all. The last thing I want when I am pissed at someone is to have them RIGHT THERE in my face. I am okay if left alone and allowed to let things dissipate on their own.

My take on it is that some people are like cats (me) and some are like dogs. Cat people don't need constant attention, dog people do. It almost seems that is how they get feedback on their "value" or "worth". Cat people seem to just know this without constant external validation. Not to say either way is better, they are just different.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:28 am

regynalonglank wrote:usually it takes me like days to get over being pissed off at someone i'm with...and since angry sex does nothing for me, that kinda sucks!

the wierdest thing happened to me with my playa boy, i got totally mad at him, like rippingly pissed off at something that would have taken me forever to get over off playa, and i just processed it, myself, without saying anything to him, and got over it in like ten minutes. it was totally wierd! it was like being a toddler or something...ten minutes later it was like it had never happened. lucky me...turned out to be one of the best nights of my life!

sometimes talking about it just makes it worse...

when i got married (don't worry, i'm over it now, and i don't recommend it either!) the guy who altered my wedding dress in manhattan told me that the best relationship advice was to just keep your mouth shut. and if you are mad about something that goes double.

i hate to say it, but i think he was right!

there are times for both....
there are moments for me where i'm blindingly angry.
perhaps because of the angerhatredcrueltyviolenceselfcontrolde-escalationbiteyourtonguesoyoudon'tmakeitworse dynamics i've lived in recently, when i get that pissed off or appalled i lose my abililty to verbalise, which is usually pretty strong. (yes, sensei, you saw this at your place, ya bastard....)

it seems to me that this self-imposed (but not necessarily voluntary) silence is a way for me to discern WHY i'm angry and then be able to address the root causes of it. often it reveals that it has nothing to do with the other person, per se.

still, i find it important to process it verbally after that's done. as a frequently verbal person, it helps me to put it to rest, to really be done with it. almost as if it makes it real enough not to haunt my mind.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 9:45 am

Believe or not (most wouldn't from seeing some of my posts), I am incredibley patient. It takes a lot for me to blow it. And when I do blow it, it usually takes me only 10-15 minutes to cool down. Unfortunately, I tend to bottle things up (Roman Catholic/Italian background- go figure).

Most often, I'm the 'talker down' in a relationship. Disagreements are going to happen between folks at times, regardless of how small they are- they are still disagreements. No two people are the same. Case in point, ever disagree with your parents? (C'mon, EVERYONE has done this one- its part of the whole teenage process). Still lovem' right (or at least one of them)?

Any disagreement I has never ended in a break up. I've never understood that. That should only happen with plenty of attempts at compromise and plenty of non-angry introspection. The relationship that is currently ending now, we tried for 1 1/2 to 2 years. The problem is that the spark is just gone, we still care very deeply for each other and are very close friends. We didn't disagree a lot, but we have definitely had our differences.

So I guess you could say that I believe disagreements are normal, and sometimes they are good even. But love has nothing to do with disagreements.

regynalonglank · Post by **regynalonglank** » Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:21 am

yeah...anger can definitely shake things up. but it rarely fixes anything.

i like some righteous indignation myself, kinda like coffee, wakes ya up!

what i noticed on playa is that most of the time when i got grumpy or out of sorts it had nothing to do with anything except for me being either hungry, tired, thirsty, or having to pee...something basic and physical. if i kept my body happy i was pretty happy overall, regardless of what came up interpersonally...kinda made me think. lots of times i think i will have a feeling and then go looking for why. and it could be any sort of why really, so many why's to choose from...in the end it doesn't matter why.

i'm tired of being angry. i wanna have fun!

once i decided that, nothing seemed to be worth not having fun about. whatever it is, it's just not worth it. or if it is, then kick ass and get over it.

most people appreciate it when you let them have it if they were being a dope. that's the other thing that came up on playa. when i did lose my temper it was over something that needed to be said...and my camp mates just thought it was hillarious. they really liked it actually.

it was fun to be around a bunch of people who aren't afraid of the fire

so to speak :)

dana · Post by **dana** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 4:59 pm

Wow Someone actually emailed to encourage me to help keep this thread going. I thought about it and realized - yeah this is a worthwhile thread, considering that it's just this stuff that can show you how much it might hurt to lose that one love...........
Then right in the middle of looking for that deeper insight into those lessons learned the hard way - the very same devil that inflicted them in the first place showed up in my mind in it's latest incarnation. This time it hit me with a sharp left hook of cynicism right into my sense of futility. I started to wonder - are people really trying to reach some deeper understanding on the eplaya? Or is it more just a place to air your concerns/opinions or for mere entertainment - like interactive TV with more channels? Any thoughts?
Anyone?....... Bueller?

sparkletarte · Post by **sparkletarte** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:21 pm

I'm just talkin' on the eplaya- opinions, chats, entertainment. If I reach a deeper level of whatever, okay, just like if I'm having a conversation with someone face to face. It is kinda like an interactive TV I guess. Well, my monitor is square anyways.

As for the anger stuff, I like to try to understand where the other person is coming from. I like to see how to bridge the gaps to be able to work together with someone. For sure I get angry, but not very often. My honey and I hardly ever fight- actually the most fighting we've done in 3 years was on the drive down to BRC. I said fuck you to him three times and that was huuuge. It's weird when you don't ever say things like, or raise your voice, and then when it happens... We disagree for sure, but we just don't get mad and fight about it- you're you, I'm me, we don't agree, okay let's move on is more our style. I'm so glad- I'm really, really done with that sort of drama in my life.

I like to have more of a grip on my emotions- not in a supressing way, but rather to figure out why I'm feeling this way. Yelling doesn't usually solve anything when you aren't agreeing with someone. I'm a Gemini, and I really think that has a lot to do with it, scoff or not. I'm analytical, logical, fairly objective, not prone to any sort of big emotional outbursts, and big on communication. I have no problem saying what I think, and telling someone I disagree with them, I just keep the emotions out of it usually. I save my emotions for the fun stuff.

Rob, maybe your spark isn't gone, maybe it's just a nice warm, slow roasting ember.

~
Hmmm, what did I say I was here for again? Right, talking about myself...

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 6:12 pm

sparkletarte wrote: Rob, maybe your spark isn't gone, maybe it's just a nice warm, slow roasting ember.

No, we have been toghether about six years. We made the mistake of trying for the last 1 1/2 to 2 years to stay toghether as a couple. We will always be close friends, but the essential heart of an intimate relationship went away. We should have split up after 4 1/2 years and just became friends then. Maybe not though, who knows? We wanted it to work because of how close we were- maybe we needed all the attempts to really realize that we needed to go our own ways.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 8:34 pm

big hug to ya Rob

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:14 pm

I hear ya, Rob. I am in a similar boat. Little hearts are involved so I am still doing CPR on that horse.

Rob the Wop · Post by **Rob the Wop** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:20 pm

I think the real question is whether a "big ol' sloppy blowjob" means no disagreements.

Hey, I for one, ain't gonna argue about it.

Zulegoona · Post by **Zulegoona** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:20 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:
sparkletarte wrote: Rob, maybe your spark isn't gone, maybe it's just a nice warm, slow roasting ember.
No, we have been toghether about six years. We made the mistake of trying for the last 1 1/2 to 2 years to stay toghether as a couple. We will always be close friends, but the essential heart of an intimate relationship went away. We should have split up after 4 1/2 years and just became friends then. Maybe not though, who knows? We wanted it to work because of how close we were- maybe we needed all the attempts to really realize that we needed to go our own ways.

That's how it was for me and my ex-wife neither of us wanted to admit we needed to not be married anymore we'd been together 15 years and the spark had left around year 10.

We were best friends that had been through a lot together, and still loved each other but sometimes that’s not enough.

We're still good friends and instant message often.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Sat Oct 09, 2004 10:23 pm

Rob the Wop wrote:I think the real question is whether a "big ol' sloppy blowjob" means no disagreements.

I never disagree with a big sloppy blowjob ... unless it's like ... in the produce aisle.

starfish66 · Post by **starfish66** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 11:49 am

"Instead of feeling a sense of urgency, we should be fascinated by the process of meeting and getting to know new people. Compassion, care, and kindness for others would supersede 'getting someone to be with us.' We should never try to control another person.
"New love can resurrect our most primitive feelings of fear, hope, dependency, and emptiness. If we know how to soothe our pain and relax into our emptiness, we won't be afraid to be open and honest, regardless of the outcome.
"When we remember that our safe harbor depends on our awareness and honesty, we're less likely to make internal compromises, put on masks, or act like a chameleon to attract a partner or keep a hurtful relationshop together. If we live by truth we may have pain, but we will always rest securely within ourselves."

...taken from 'If the Buddha dated' by Charlotte Davis Kasl, although, in her words (and others) - 'The source of truth and wisdom is immaterial....

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:00 pm

dana wrote:Wow Someone actually emailed to encourage me to help keep this thread going. I thought about it and realized - yeah this is a worthwhile thread, considering that it's just this stuff that can show you how much it might hurt to lose that one love...........
Then right in the middle of looking for that deeper insight into those lessons learned the hard way - the very same devil that inflicted them in the first place showed up in my mind in it's latest incarnation. This time it hit me with a sharp left hook of cynicism right into my sense of futility. I started to wonder - are people really trying to reach some deeper understanding on the eplaya? Or is it more just a place to air your concerns/opinions or for mere entertainment - like interactive TV with more channels? Any thoughts?
Anyone?....... Bueller?

a bit of each, i think....
i find it a mistake to search for deep insight (usually you miss it)
but the eplaya is a meeting of minds, a joining of friends, an airing of shit, and a lot of other things.

i do know that when i come for intellectual conversation i avoid the fluff threads, when i come for banter i avoid politics, and when i come to see how my friends are i show up on the fuck thread.

i do know that interactive TV wouldn't likely give me some of the friends this board has spawned - real flesh and blood folks who piss me off (in person and online) make me laugh (same again) and constantly remind me that i'm loved. and then they try to kick my ass to *boot*.

maybe the eplaya is just the intersection of all of these things.....

it's also a great break from work!

dana · Post by **dana** » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:50 pm

starfish66 wrote:
"New love can resurrect our most primitive feelings of fear, hope, dependency, and emptiness. If we know how to soothe our pain and relax into our emptiness, we won't be afraid to be open and honest, regardless of the outcome.
"When we remember that our safe harbor depends on our awareness and honesty, we're less likely to make internal compromises, put on masks, or ..."

...taken from 'If the Buddha dated' by Charlotte Davis Kasl, although, in her words (and others) - 'The source of truth and wisdom is immaterial....

not to mention resurrecting occaisional bouts of extreme fluffy-headedness...
So Starfish, how is this working out in the real world? It's always different when you're actually in the clinches.

Rian - how can you say that about deep insight??? I don't believe you. (Your posts don't show that.) I think the same devil/cynic briefly whipped you upside the head also. Shit if we were'nt all trying to get varying depths of insight and readjust our trajectories as we went along, we'd all still be acting out of our child's awareness in relationships..... (oops! I guess a lot of people are doing just that exactly.)
No at the time I wrote that post I was seriously considering one particularly painful relationship lost, and the lessons I learned around that. Briefly it comes down to knowing your inner relationship demons - ego mostly, and sorting out all the bullshit it's busily trying to tell you about what's going on in front of you. Until I figured that out, the basic mechanics of it, my relationships were weak and in jeopardy. But the thing is, it required definitive work to see it - invading my own privacy and tearing into my own delusions (kind of like the quote above.)

Does "love" mean no disagreements?

dissin and lovin

~

Re: ~

Re: ~

dating............!

Re: dating............!