Did we win?

uncle sticky · Post by **uncle sticky** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:45 am

Wow, tix all over the place, well BELOW face, and still a week before the thing. No way to ever know for sure, but I'm hoping and dreaming that many of those unsold tickets are held by scalpers and lottery gamers (mini-scalpers) who hoped to make a few fast bucks, and are now facing a loss. I know there are plenty of burners whose plans have changed that are getting stung too, but is it possible that the scalpers got burned enough to stay away next year?

junglesmacks · Post by **junglesmacks** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:48 am

Mmmm.. more scalper theory and conjecture!

Isn't there something on TV?

MoBo · Post by **MoBo** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:15 am

It is clear that there are more tickets available now than I have seen in previous August timeframes. Also interesting that the tickets did not show up in large numbers until after the 03 AUG release of 1000 tickets.
Possibilities:
1. Some of these tickets were held by scalpers who waited for the 1000 ticket release thinking that post release (when no more tickets would be coming from the BORG) would be the time these tickets would be most valuable.
2. Actual burners were hoarding tickets in order to "help" fellow burners in their circle of friends, but got caught in the glut when most of the STEP queue was cleared.
3. The alleged large numbers of Virgin ticket purchasers are just now realizing they are not ready or up to the chalenge of actually getting their poop together, and are only now trying to get their money back on tickets purchased.

I think this ticket glut is mostly a good thing, though some well intentioned folks are going to lose some money by waiting too long to decide to sell.

- This years February Panic regarding tickets is likely to not repeat as we will remember just how many tickets were available in August.
- The Scalpers (there were hundreds of them on just Bay Area CL and auction sites) likely did not do so well this year and will be less inclined to try again next year.
- Everyone now trying to sell tickets will likely give more thought to the question of buying next year if they are unsure of going. They will also try to sell tickets earlier to avoid the glut we see now.

So yeah, I think we won... mostly.

mudpuppy000 · Post by **mudpuppy000** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:35 am

Yeah, it seemed to shift quite a bit after the 1000 ticket sale. (when I finally got my ticket) I had tickets promised to me prior to that but they all seemed to be getting lost in the mail, so I jumped on the open sale. That might be a good way to discourage ticket hoarders/scalpers in the future, release 5000 or so non-transferrable tickets in August.

Post by **Eric** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:49 am

A huge (and seemingly unconsidered) part of the glut right now is that by past standards there isn't much of one. It's about the normal turnover, there just aren't people to buy them. After the Open Sale was cancelled & turned into the Distributed Tickets for camps, people made other plans. They didn't prepare, they didn't get the time off, if they had the time off they decided to go somewhere else & booked reservations.

Last year was the first year ever to sell out, people were used to preparing without a ticket & picking up one closer to the event. When they sold out, there were buyers desperately waiting for those tickets because they had everything else ready. This year it's the opposite. It didn't seem like there was any way to get to BMan, so they moved on. Now those cheap tickets are begging because it takes someone well prepared (and with a flexible job) to pull this event off in a week.

MoBo · Post by **MoBo** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:53 am

Eric wrote:A huge (and seemingly unconsidered) part of the glut right now is that by past standards there isn't much of one. It's about the normal turnover, there just aren't people to buy them. After the Open Sale was cancelled & turned into the Distributed Tickets for camps, people made other plans. They didn't prepare, they didn't get the time off, if they had the time off they decided to go somewhere else & booked reservations.

Last year was the first year ever to sell out, people were used to preparing without a ticket & picking up one closer to the event. When they sold out, there were buyers desperately waiting for those tickets because they had everything else ready. This year it's the opposite. It didn't seem like there was any way to get to BMan, so they moved on. Now those cheap tickets are begging because it takes someone well prepared (and with a flexible job) to pull this event off in a week.

Excellent point.

uncle sticky · Post by **uncle sticky** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:05 am

Again, maybe hoping and dreaming (I am a burner, so that makes sense) that ticket scalpers will see this dynamic, and realize that the burning man ticket market doesn't behave they way most events do (great points by Eric), and that it's not worth it to them to try and understand the market, and too risky to try and trade tickets for an event they don't understand. Hoping, dreaming of a scalper free Burning Man.

wraith · Post by **wraith** » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:36 pm

Eric wrote:A huge (and seemingly unconsidered) part of the glut right now is that by past standards there isn't much of one. It's about the normal turnover, there just aren't people to buy them. After the Open Sale was cancelled & turned into the Distributed Tickets for camps, people made other plans. They didn't prepare, they didn't get the time off, if they had the time off they decided to go somewhere else & booked reservations.

Last year was the first year ever to sell out, people were used to preparing without a ticket & picking up one closer to the event. When they sold out, there were buyers desperately waiting for those tickets because they had everything else ready. This year it's the opposite. It didn't seem like there was any way to get to BMan, so they moved on. Now those cheap tickets are begging because it takes someone well prepared (and with a flexible job) to pull this event off in a week.

Exactly. This is why I'm not snagging one at a good price. Put my money into doing other stuff this summer.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:10 am

How many of us are thinking, damn I didn't need to go presale, I'll wait for cheap tickets next year?

Then I have to weigh my need to reduce stress, and know I'll buy presale.

wraith · Post by **wraith** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:26 am

AntiM wrote:How many of us are thinking, damn I didn't need to go presale, I'll wait for cheap tickets next year?

Then I have to weigh my need to reduce stress, and know I'll buy presale.

Yeah, that's the balance. TTITD isn't exactly cheap, and the ticket's the least expensive but most necessary part.

Post by **AntiM** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:37 am

Budgeting for the event is always part of our annual spending, just as I leave wiggle room for our other adventures. It isn't an extra thing, it is part of the household cash flow in and out year round.

Captain · Post by **Captain** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:44 am

Maybe scalpers don't actually exist? Would any true hustler buy tickets for $400 and hold on to them for 6 months instead of grabbing up a bunch of Justin Bieber tickets locally and getting their capital back way faster? A scalper has to know what they are doing to make money, and scalper markets are extremely competetive! Sorry but the scalper myth just doesn't make any sense. Maybe there are a handful of idiots who try to make some money off of scalping BM tickets, but they probably don't do it again the next year.

Buy a BM ticket for $400 and sell it 6 months later for $600, or buy 10 Justin Bieber tickets for $60 today, sell them for $120 a month from now, and start working the next event?

uncle sticky · Post by **uncle sticky** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:59 am

AntiM wrote:How many of us are thinking, damn I didn't need to go presale, I'll wait for cheap tickets next year?

Then I have to weigh my need to reduce stress, and know I'll buy presale.

That is the classic definition of "individual risk tolerance." You've got to know how a big a chance you're willing to take, and whether it will keep you up at night.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:19 am

I'm sure that there will be differences in the way many or most people buy tickets.
I wonder if more people will go for the holiday tickets. It's worth $40 not to have to bite nails for 9 months, I suspect.

FIGJAM · Post by **FIGJAM** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:28 am

All new for next year..."THE TICKET SHOW!!!"

pink · Post by **pink** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:39 am

AntiM wrote:How many of us are thinking, damn I didn't need to go presale, I'll wait for cheap tickets next year?

Then I have to weigh my need to reduce stress, and know I'll buy presale.

I thought exactly the same thing. Lost the lottery. Kicker is, the ticket I was offered 3 days after the lottery ended was presale. So I ended up spending the same amount anyways.

forty_eight · Post by **forty_eight** » Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:58 am

AntiM wrote:How many of us are thinking, damn I didn't need to go presale, I'll wait for cheap tickets next year?

Then I have to weigh my need to reduce stress, and know I'll buy presale.

Hahaha

Yes

and

Yes ... OK, second part isn't a question but pretty sure that's what I'll be doing.

CornMan · Post by **CornMan** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:20 am

Overall, we did not win. So many camps and art installations went under-planned.

ZaphodBurner · Post by **ZaphodBurner** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:25 am

I think we won. As one of the lovelies at Muhammad's said, we didn't venture too far into the 3 o'clock side because there was too much awesome shit in our own neighborhood.

It wasn't all epic, it didn't all have fire and lasers and Daft Punk playing on it. You had to go to the small camps, like the the one with the psychedelic ping pong tables. On the other side, it was difficult to ride your bike around spectating and not-participate at everything. You had to get off and walk. Meet your neighbors.

Crystal Method played at something like FIVE camps this year. Didn't see/don't care, because the hippie dancing to Dark Side of the Moon way the fuck up on a tightrope, or the camp across the street calling my wife and I out and playing our wedding song touched me much more deeply. We met hundreds of awesome people without even leaving camp. The community vibe was amazing. This year--my fifth burn--I came to the realization that I love the big art, even though I barely interacted with it, but the really, really life-changing occurrences are the little unpredictable ones that happen at random, on D or G street, or way out on the open playa. You can't experience a meaningful, spiritual connection with people while you're trying to find your friend's bike at Opulent Temple or dancing in a crowd of ravers lost in their own headspace, unless of course you have tits or a nice ass.

I saw a woman of at least 50 teaching people half her age, or older than her, how to rock a hoop in front of our camp. I didn't know any of them. Nobody cared if somebody sucked at it. I'm younger than she is, but, I felt old. Finally, after watching for awhile I got up, picked up a hoop and gave it a try. I sucked about half as bad as I expected, we laughed, somebody gave us sangria and samba lessons while somebody much more skilled than I played my congas, and the sun set on a glorious and happy neighborhood street party. Will never forget that Wednesday...Thursday? afternoon.

Screw you guys, I won Burning Man!

RedHeaven · Post by **RedHeaven** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:21 pm

Zaphod I love it!!!! Sooooooooooo true. I do love many DJs at the large camps but I tend to enjoy the streets more. My first 2 years I didnt even go to the sound camps, I hardly knew they existed. I did go up for Bootie this year but that was it. Experienced so many friendly faces and had so many great convos in the suburbs and on the art. The suburbs were amazing this year. We like totally fer shure won.

mgb327 · Post by **mgb327** » Wed Sep 05, 2012 7:12 pm

I certainly won...not what I expected, but more. Truly an awesome time.....

pink · Post by **pink** » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:45 pm

I really dont give a fuck about the sound camps. Our camp rocked, and I love the random human interaction, like going to the Man with a friend dressed as Wonder Woman and meeting up with a TG Wonder Woman. Being pulled into group pictures with random people. Having a portopottie valet at our bank of potties. Trading two office chairs our camp couldnt get off playa for a passenger to Reno that his camp didn't have room for. Giving our extra food to the Rez food bank.

And more wonderful people in my life that understand why I burn. I won big time!

Candybox · Post by **Candybox** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:03 am

Zeke Chaparral wrote:Overall, we did not win. So many camps and art installations went under-planned.

I noticed this too—that camps in general seemed a lot less polished this year.

Then again, if the Ticketocalypse hadn't happened, we would have missed out on so many amazing experiences on top of surely, without a doubt having a much poorer Burn. So I feel like we won.

Without Ticketocalypse, we would have just gotten tickets, set up a little family spa camp, and gone to Burning Man. Business as usual.

Due to Ticketocalypse, we really did not plan on going to BM, so we tried to make it up to ourselves by burning in other ways. We went on a ton of little trips, then went on a dream vacation to Death Valley and Slab City. We got involved building Anubis so we'd sort of be on the playa in spirit, and ended up having a blast all summer and got to know some amazing, dedicated, creative people while working together to make something really cool. Had we gotten tickets in the first place, we would've missed out on so many peak experiences and not even known it. In our case, the playa provided anyway, and my life and burn feels richer because of it.

Pandorabee · Post by **Pandorabee** » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:39 pm

It was a new adventure. I did win a great burn. Lots of great connections. I totally enjoyed the spark of wonder in the eyes of so many first time burners. It was alot of work, reminding people, contantly about moop, LNT and not pissing on the PLAYA, but everyone has to start someplace.

Many of my new campmates bought tickets a week or so before the burn on the cheap. If the ticket mess had not happened many of them could not have afforded to participate in Burning Man this year. It was sort of backwards, some people bought a lot of tickets so they could sell them at a loss to people who never had the opportunity to go to Burning Man before. It all worked out the way it was supposed to, I guess.

This Woman · Post by **This Woman** » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:10 pm

No. We didn't win.

My amazing experiences happened despite the ridiculous lottery and equally ridiculous fixes, not because of them. It caused our camp even more challenges than usual, something we always have more than enough of. Whoop de doo, we rose to the additional challenges; that was never in question. That everyone got a ticket was also expected (many of us pre-paid). It's always been about distribution and we - collectively - lost. My camp, beyond additional cost and moderate challenges fared better than other camps and individuals, but I think calling an individual win on "we" when so many people lost is dismissive. Most people have ass-kicking to life changing experiences at Burning Man, and they work hard for them. There are people who could not go who would have otherwise gone. That's a loss. There are theme camps that did not happen that would have happened. That's a loss.

The size of Burning Man combined with the fact that it's almost entirely a volunteer effort, is not conducive to a lottery, at least in the way the llc carried it out. It's as though they never even talked to the smaller regionals from where they surely got the idea in the first place. Maybe some sort of modified lottery will ultimately work, but the 2012 lottery was an hysterical and ill considered response to what may have been a one-time issue.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:33 am

I think any time that the burn shakes off our expectations and forces us to experience it in a new way, we win.

Note: "Selling out" is experiencing it in an old way--the same old way we experience so much of the real world. In this instance "selling out" is a very squishy term roughly pertaining to becoming too much like day to day life and less fantastic.

pinemom · Post by **pinemom** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:27 am

hahaha I heard OneEyedDick won Burningman this year?

forty_eight · Post by **forty_eight** » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:45 pm

I was a would-be 2012 virgin that didn't continue planning after Directed Tickets came about, but I feel really good that there wasn't a scalper market and that the virgins appear to have served well in their roles as citizen-creators of BRC.

Winning

illy dilly · Post by **illy dilly** » Wed Sep 12, 2012 3:28 pm

Did we win?

I don't know about everyone else.
BUT I TOOK GRAND FUCKING CHAMPION THIS YEAR!!!!

I hella won at Burning Man 2012.
I'm waiting for my blue ribbon... I'm hoping to get it for about $360 next January or February.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Wed Sep 26, 2012 4:43 pm

48_love wrote:
AntiM wrote:How many of us are thinking, damn I didn't need to go presale, I'll wait for cheap tickets next year?

Then I have to weigh my need to reduce stress, and know I'll buy presale.
Hahaha

Yes

and

Yes ... OK, second part isn't a question but pretty sure that's what I'll be doing.

IF they have pre-sale this year, it's going to sell out by a lot.

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