AMBER Alert abuse

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robrob
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby robrob » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:36 am

man, you really can't please everyone all the time....

anyhow, my impression from this incident was "the system works".

sure, it's not ideal that a handful of folks got inconvenienced for two hours, but, overall, I feel good about the fact that our little freak show has reliable mechanisms in place to handle potentially serious incidents in an orderly fashion.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby unjonharley » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:57 am

For the love of Cow! Let this thread die..

The spin doctors have had there day..

onzilla you can take the burr out of you crack and all will be OK

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Mosin » Fri Sep 07, 2012 2:07 pm

There I go, playing on the slide again. Nevermind...
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CitizenRandom
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby CitizenRandom » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:31 am

Oooo. Im so ALL upset cuz my busy fucking self important life was interupted for two WHOLE FUCKING HOURS to look for a missing kid-FUCK!
Being made to be a prisoner for two hours while a TEEN AGE CHILD may have been held a prisoner or exsists as one- or ran away from being a prisoner- or just needed a fucking GREEN DOT durring my Personal Burning Plan experiance of LIBERTY and FREEDOM- well IM OUT FUCKING RAGED!!

It just puts all the kids in the future at danger some how- and well that girl was bad- and I missed my flight and I got all dusty- and harshed my mellow- and ..

FUCK YOU .

GP&E Rangers and cops did it right. Period- shes a fucking kid- PERIOD and looking as attractive as she does- also doesnt mean she wont wind up on a milk carton and can out smart a fucking preditor- BY all MEANS lets not forget how important adults are over those whom have little choise but to hope we would-should stop the fucking world and have the fucking ability to do so but often choose otherwise - to save all kids- any kids- OUR KIDS.

When she came with her parents to BRC she became OUR KID in some fashion -if anything should harm her or bring danger to her.
She was "just" a run away?
Hey Braintrust! Your all so smart an all with your big ideas an everything- How is a teenager any less at risk if not MORE when they disapear?
Heres a bloodclot for your brain meats..WHO typically are Runaways? WHY DO KIDS SPLIT THEIR PARENTS??? DERP!!
She needed us- We stepped up and FUCK YOUR PLANS- ..it could of been a accident on the road, or a storm that rained you in- you could of lost your fucking keys..This shit happens at the Burn but what doesnt happen, you selfish fucks- is that our Gate and our Rangers- our cops and our community -will allow a child to somehow drift out and become a staistic- a footnote- a GONE child on a milk carton. SO CALM THE FUCK DOWN .. these are kids. SHE is a kid. And the blather about some poor guy getting himself all caught up in a statatory rape thing and because she is such a Lolita!? OMG! Get the fuck off the drugs and the 1950s blame the young girl for ruining the horney assclown routien. IS this not 2012? Older guys think its paydirt when a barely legal girl hits the 18 mark..but speaking as a once formally hot teen - I could not be depended on to understand boundries-saftyand-the mind and motives of ANY dick weilding male from age 16 -to 65 and tho built like a woman had the heart of a frickin CHILD!!! still do thank Goddeses..She is still very exploitable!! Ever hear of Frat boy storys? how girls get wrangled into white slavery? of date rape drugs? seduction? Child fucking porn? dirty old men?
Well no? REALLY?
You assclowns who are making this less important because she was a rebelling troubled pretty teen- are half the problem with the systems outside the burn- You can eat a dick all day ..eat it and choke- and think about the kids that never go home ever again or just become posters on a lamp post next a candle -
Id wait as long as it takes for anychild.
Fuck you..
I gaurentee IF it was your kid- IF YOU HAVE A KID_ youd be doing fucking handstands and begging the world to stop for those precious first moments that your baby goes missing.
Selfish fucking people- your important lives and inadvertant inattention to detail is why kids are killed and enslaved every 15 fucking minutes a day in the real world. shut up- and deal with it .
if you hate having to pause for even 10 minutes for the safety of a child and the future of our community- stay the fuck HOME- or maybe join some other nifty festival group- like ummm Disneyland- or a adult only Princess Cruise..
I think she should get imancipated and be made to do community service thru the Gate to learn the weight of her actions- the quality of the people whom cared as much for her if not more than her fucking dad- and to learn the responsibility of service to others over personal needs. She is too young and too conflicted to know the value of her life- I hope that we as a community will step up and show her what ever her issues.
That is the best way to get even and prove your more adult than your parents..Become more responsible and adjusted than they are and kick ass with the principles.
There that being said and a huge thank you to those who did their god damn job to find that girl..
I wish to say Im sorry if I offend but- this is stupid all the debate- its our policy- Its as inconveiniant to most all of us as a storm or any other thing that can happen- Its the right thing to do and im glad it was so triffle as a two hour lock down over a tiff as it was reported- -again I dont think she should be kicked out but instead embraced with arms of the persons who loved her enough to stop- look-and listen all of it- FOR HER and teach her how to do it for others.

and if the lil wildhair fucks up again..take away her XBOX - her smart phone- and make her moop the whole Playa.
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some seeing eye
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby some seeing eye » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:46 am

TL;DR but I always enjoy the Random writings. It's work to write that way.
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CitizenRandom
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby CitizenRandom » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:20 am

some seeing eye wrote:TL;DR but I always enjoy the Random writings. It's work to write that way.


Jeezus Wow! you bet..my fucking brain bleeds..
thanks for the random word..
lol..lo-fucking-l
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby ygmir » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:58 am

CitizenRandom wrote:
some seeing eye wrote:TL;DR but I always enjoy the Random writings. It's work to write that way.


Jeezus Wow! you bet..my fucking brain bleeds..
thanks for the random word..
lol..lo-fucking-l



this.......^^^^^^^^^^^ is funny
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:10 pm

Citizen -- Again, we have no idea about the specifics of her family & camp situation, but yes the org was prepared to do the right thing, and did it.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby onzilla » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:00 pm

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Candybox » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:59 pm

I would rather be safe than sorry. Sorry that it harshed your mellow and inconvenienced your burn for two whole hours.

Hindsight is 20/20. The girl was an asshat for running away and putting everyone in a tizzy. Nonetheless, it's probably more dangerous out on the playa for a mid-teenager than a child, since she is looks old enough to know better, is young enough to not know better, and just the right age to think she knows all.

I hope she's grounded at the moment and her parents have banned her from the burn, but I'm also glad that we have a system in place that works.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Bob » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:56 pm

Candybox wrote:...inconvenienced your burn for two whole hours...


Allegedly.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Eric » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:37 pm

Bob wrote:
Candybox wrote:...inconvenienced your burn for two whole hours...


Allegedly.


Or not at all. Hell, I didn't even find out about it until I got home, and never noticed it out there.

The only people who were inconvenienced were the people who wanted to leave in that two hour window, and personally I don't see that as a major inconvenience unless someone had a dire emergency. Hell, people wait almost that long to get into brunch in SF on the weekend - lets keep 2 hours in perspective.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby wraith » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:50 pm

Eric wrote:
Bob wrote:
Candybox wrote:...inconvenienced your burn for two whole hours...


Allegedly.


Or not at all. Hell, I didn't even find out about it until I got home, and never noticed it out there.

The only people who were inconvenienced were the people who wanted to leave in that two hour window, and personally I don't see that as a major inconvenience unless someone had a dire emergency. Hell, people wait almost that long to get into brunch in SF on the weekend - lets keep 2 hours in perspective.


Whereas a lot of the rest of the country would consider a 2 hour wait for a meal absurd. Even perspective needs perspective.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby onzilla » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:12 pm

Eric wrote:
Bob wrote:
Candybox wrote:...inconvenienced your burn for two whole hours...


Allegedly.


Or not at all. Hell, I didn't even find out about it until I got home, and never noticed it out there.

The only people who were inconvenienced were the people who wanted to leave in that two hour window, and personally I don't see that as a major inconvenience unless someone had a dire emergency. Hell, people wait almost that long to get into brunch in SF on the weekend - lets keep 2 hours in perspective.



Very profound.

And this just in....

They have actually changed the missing child protocol for next time.

If they don't find the girl in two hours, authorities can then authorize themselves to search any vehicle or camp on the entire playa.

And if that does work after two days. Everyone will have to submit to bar coding and scanning to ensure that we are not the kidnappers of this girl.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby happydragon » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:14 pm

Whaaaa.......... I had to stay on the playa longer.... poor baby.....

They overreacted, the girl was fine, people are pissed. If they hadn't over reacted and she had been taken off playa never to be seen again, people would be pissed and asking why they didn't shut down the city when she was reported missing. Catch 22.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Candybox » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:00 pm

aerialmonster wrote:Whaaaa.......... I had to stay on the playa longer.... poor baby.....

They overreacted, the girl was fine, people are pissed. If they hadn't over reacted and she had been taken off playa never to be seen again, people would be pissed and asking why they didn't shut down the city when she was reported missing. Catch 22.


Unbalanced Catch 22 too. If she was fine, life goes one. If she'd actually been abducted... well, let's just say it would give Pershing County a whole better edge to shut this little party down.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Nipple » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:20 am

I like when conversations about issues take longer than the issue being discussed existed.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby gyre » Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:29 am

Because there won't be any more teenagers out there?

I think it's interesting that we have no problem holding fifteen year olds responsible enough to routinely sentence them to life in prison, but somehow this apparently mentally normal girl is too fragile to manage in an environment distinctly safer than the average urban district.

Do you suppose she is never allowed outside on her own at home?

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Good Sarah » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:22 pm

vapor wrote:So I have a somewhat different perspective . . . I lay most of the blame on the parents or guardians of the teenager. If you take a teenager up to Burning Man you damn well better have some idea how they are going to act and react to the events at B'Man. You damn well better trust their judgement, because there is no way you'll keep them on a leash the whole time. You damn well should have "the serious talk" about behavior, consequences, communication and the seriousness of the event. And, let them know how to have fun safely. OR, if you don't trust them enough to not worry then don't bring them. Period. It's not like you can follow them around all the time with night scopes. It's not like you want to anyway. And if you've never been to the event then you really shouldn't take a kid your first year.

I say all this as a father who brought his teenage daughter (17) twice. We had "the talk", I walked the city with her for a few days and then she was on her own. I just asked that she let me know more or less what she was up to and more or less when she'd check back in, usually within about a 12 hour window. She loved it, she didn't get into any lasting trouble (meaning I didn't see any aftermath) and she'll go again on her own.

I completely agree with this. It's one thing to bring a child or teenager who has proven to be reliable and trustworthy in the default world onto the playa There is no way this girl was an otherwise respectful and responsible person, clearly she has behavioral problems that most likely manifest themselves in the default world. It can't be much of a shock to her parents that they've got an impulsive, selfish, and reckless teenage girl on their hands. I think it's incredibly naive to stick a young person like that in Kidsville and expect them not to rebel. Sure there are responsible parents who do great with their kids on the playa. But as someone who's grown up around festival culture, I've seen a lot of parents behave negligently in big event settings and there's no reason BM would be immune. We all know not everyone abides by the 10 principles and a lot of people have a hard time being responsible for their own actions. Once you add a bratty teen into the mix, we get situations like this where the community has to absorb the consequences. There WILL be parents who can't control their kids and teenagers, and they WILL bring their reckles, rebellious teenagers who want nothing more than to run away from Kidsville. This is a fact.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby SunnyCub » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:49 pm

It took me over 12 hours to get home to Roseville ca from BRC due to an amber alert. My battery died and I came close to running out of gas. I am all for the amber alert system if it was indeed a child abduction. Still not really sure what actually went down but I was curious as to what the gate and airport shut down accomplished besides pissing off a lot of people. If we were detained to see if this child was in one of our cars great but no one ever looked or questioned anyone so what was the point?

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby SunnyCub » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:54 pm

Ps ... Why do people keep saying this was a 2 hour delay ? What line were you in ? I waited on the exit road from 4 pm until 130 am without moving ! Maybe my math is all f'ed up

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Canoe » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:06 pm

Burning Man Traffic times are from Gate to the pavement or in pulsing lines to the pavement. Interesting to know when there's significant extra time just to get into their line(s).

As to what they've provided as an official explanation, you can see
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=79234
or go to the source at https://twitter.com/bmantraffic
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:18 am

SunnyCub wrote:It took me over 12 hours to get home to Roseville ca from BRC due to an amber alert. My battery died and I came close to running out of gas. I am all for the amber alert system if it was indeed a child abduction. Still not really sure what actually went down but I was curious as to what the gate and airport shut down accomplished besides pissing off a lot of people. If we were detained to see if this child was in one of our cars great but no one ever looked or questioned anyone so what was the point?

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby VultureChow » Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:11 am

We had one pulse in Exodus before the Sunday Amber Alert hit.

When we hit Exodus, they were saying 4-6 hours. It was closer to 10. If we had left when we originally planned on Monday morning, we would have missed our flight.

Exodus has been really good for the past two years. This year was a much needed reminder of the unpredictability of the playa. Leave plenty of time to get to where you need to go. The worst possile outcome is a few extra hours getting drunk i the airport.

That doesn't mean I wasn't cursing that f*cking 17yo multiple times during the ordeal.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby ACfromSAC » Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:58 am

I split around 3am Monday morning. This worked FANTASTICALLY the last couple of years. I was shocked at the crazy line on the way to pavement. It took me 6 hours to get from 8 & J to pavement. I was definitely spewing a few choice words at the teen and the parents as I sat in an unnecessary exodus line... but such is Burning Man. I still had a great time. I support a 5 year minimum suspension of Burning Man privileges for the family. Bastards.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby dustandsnow » Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:00 pm

FWIW the earlier replies in this thread are from 2012...the wait was longer than 2 hours this year.

As I understand it, the Amber Alert protocol is meant specifically for child abductions. It is misused where there is no reasonable suspicion for a child abduction, but it still seems to be used as a better safe than sorry mechanism. You could draw the conclusion that activating the amber alert protocol, making drivers wait for 10+ hours, and putting 10,000 even more tired drivers on the road endangers public safety more than a possible kidnapping. But that's utilitarian and not a great justification for not using the protocol. There's also no way to conclude that closing gate for 10 hours causes X% more accidents and deaths so naturally BMORG's hands are tied and they have to close Gate in this scenario. If they did not use the Amber Alert protocol and there was an actual kidnapping then there'd be hell to pay for having been able to do something and not doing it.

Of course I don't know what closing gate actually accomplishes without a full search of every car. I suppose it buys time if someone's been kidnapped for possible clues to come in about which car the child might be in.

So, in sum, I guess I understand why the protocol has to be activated here, but sadly this just seems to be one of those shifting liability situations where the reasonable, common sense solution is not allowed.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby unjonharley » Wed Sep 07, 2016 5:48 pm

dustandsnow wrote:FWIW the earlier replies in this thread are from 2012...the wait was longer than 2 hours this year.

As I understand it, the Amber Alert protocol is meant specifically for child abductions. It is misused where there is no reasonable suspicion for a child abduction, but it still seems to be used as a better safe than sorry mechanism. You could draw the conclusion that activating the amber alert protocol, making drivers wait for 10+ hours, and putting 10,000 even more tired drivers on the road endangers public safety more than a possible kidnapping. But that's utilitarian and not a great justification for not using the protocol. There's also no way to conclude that closing gate for 10 hours causes X% more accidents and deaths so naturally BMORG's hands are tied and they have to close Gate in this scenario. If they did not use the Amber Alert protocol and there was an actual kidnapping then there'd be hell to pay for having been able to do something and not doing it.

Of course I don't know what closing gate actually accomplishes without a full search of every car. I suppose it buys time if someone's been kidnapped for possible clues to come in about which car the child might be in.

So, in sum, I guess I understand why the protocol has to be activated here, but sadly this just seems to be one of those shifting liability situations where the reasonable, common sense solution is not allowed.

I do not give a rats anal canal about the wait.. The alert is for a lost person ... If you do not have brain enough to sleep instead of driving go fuck yourself and stay home and off the road..
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby Doctor VonBacon » Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:14 pm

unjonharley wrote:I do not give a rats anal canal about the wait.. The alert is for a lost person ... If you do not have brain enough to sleep instead of driving go fuck yourself and stay home and off the road..


Stop hogging all of the common sense. You know there isn't enough to go around.
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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby dustandsnow » Wed Sep 07, 2016 7:48 pm

I do not give a rats anal canal about the wait.. The alert is for a lost person ... If you do not have brain enough to sleep instead of driving go fuck yourself and stay home and off the road..


I'm just trying to reason about what the wait accomplishes and if the pros outweigh the cons. Do you do that? Or do just assume that every rule and protocol is perfect? What then, in your eyes, does closing the gate accomplish? And what are the negatives, if any?

You and I may be smart enough to sleep, but many won't. Especially since there was no indication of how long the wait would last. Imagine it's your first exodus. How do you even know you can go to sleep? For example, you might sleep and then traffic starts moving and you're sitting in a vulnerable car with no lights displayed. Also even if you do sleep you're not getting restful sleep sitting upright in a car (especially if your car is full of 5 people and gear). Also you can't very well stay off the road to sleep if you're already on it when gate gets closed. You also have no option to go back in the city to setup an overnight camp.

I am all for pulling out stops to find a missing person. I just want to discuss whether this instrument achieves its goal.

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Re: AMBER Alert abuse

Postby some seeing eye » Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:18 pm

In every state there are mandatory reporting laws for specific suspected crimes or situations. For example, if a mandatory reporter hears of suspected child abuse, rape, there is a list, they are required to immediately report it up through the justice system. In my state mandatory reporters include teachers, social workers, health care workers, law enforcement, etc.

On the playa rangers and BM staff are required to report suspicion of certain events, including a missing minor. The permit spells out who is a mandatory reporter for what reported issues. Once that process starts, things happen that are spelled out in the permit. Like closing the gate.

There is no choice, no weighing the costs and benefits, there are no exceptions.

If you have to exit on a dependable schedule, prebook a flight out of the airport. It is not that expensive. Of course you need some good friends to haul out your gear.

(On social media we can talk shit. If you want to change the Burning Man Amber Alert system, you need to convince the BLM to take it out of the permit. Where was our dead horse thread?)
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