Thank you for your sincerity.gyre wrote:I was quite sincere.
False allegations are very common with all types of crime.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't happen with rape too.
I have someone on tape threatening to falsely accuse me of rape, and not someone I have any social relationship with at all.
People have all kinds of issues.
I agree with you, Kitty. Too much blame. People don't know how to respond to such a disgusting violation, so they look for someone to blame. Unfortunately, far too often, it is the victim. But you are absolutely right, the blame lies with the rapist. 100%.kittyrodriguez wrote:I think too much blame is being thrown around here...
Finally, as a community, we need protect each other and ourselves. We are a family.
I hope the perp is caught and faces justice, and I hope that the young victim can move on with her life.
Does it happen? Sure.gyre wrote:False allegations are very common with all types of crime.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't happen with rape too.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you are saying that you feel that anyone who considers them self to be a rape victim is entitled to publicly naming their alleged attacker without due process. As another man who has been threatened of being falsely accused of rape (I have pages of emails and text messages stating the perpetrator's intentions), I am disgusted that you think it is acceptable to tarnish any man or woman's reputation without due process. Such accusations could be career-ending for an individual, regardless of if they are untrue and thrown out in court.omgrey wrote:
(...)
Remember, as a culture, we think that "actual rapists" go to jail. They don't. That's reality. This is not about prosecuting an "innocent" man; this is about protecting women from violence. So, tell me, is it worth someone's reputation to be slightly (and I mean slightly) tarnished to save 1600 women a day from being raped? Give victims a place to speak out and name their attackers, and there will be so far fewer attacks. Where is the accountability for these monsters? To be able to call out rapists by name would truly be a Nightmare Scenario.
You've all read what this man did to Rachel's daughter, and, it seems, to others. Why would anyone, let alone three different women, make that up? This man will likely never be found, although I hope he is, and he will be raping again. This. is. why. you believe the victim.
(...)
How are you going to change that by stripping people of their right to due process? I am in no way siding with the rapist, and I think it's absolutely awful that this has happened. However, If the victim desires to bring the rapist to justice, it is incumbent upon him/ her to take every opportunity to collect evidence. Due process is how we protect the rights of the innocent, and YES IT DOES MATTER.omgrey wrote: as a culture, we think that "actual rapists" go to jail. They don't.
trilobyte wrote:Here's your chance to prove it's a cop-out, thirt33n - bring out a rape kit camp next year. Show us all how easy it is and expose the cop-out.
With all due respect, getting a court of law to accept Playa Crime Lab "evidence" as legitimate evidence would be about as difficult as getting the Nevada Highway Patrol to accept your Department of Mutant Vehicles registration as a legitimate vehicle registration for driving on Highway 447.thirt33n wrote:trilobyte wrote:Here's your chance to prove it's a cop-out, thirt33n - bring out a rape kit camp next year. Show us all how easy it is and expose the cop-out.
not "my" event to be providing necessary and feasible health and safety services. I'm not the group who plans, builds, enforces, breaks down, records and makes money from this giant venture which is a city. I "only" drive 4 days round trip after months of planning, greet for many shifts, bring my art, smile, MOOP patrol, help where i can, pack up, and drive home.
...havent seen you face, Trilo, to face since maybe 2006 and i "love" you like a fellow citizen, still, your response to me is plain silly. If you don't understand that this is a situation that this city and ALL who build and protect and make money from it have dropped the ball on and should get their shit together then maybe you should recuse yourself from the discussion. A "normal" citizen like me does not have axcess to a mobile crime lab. I'm SURE you could name at least two organizations/agencies involved that do. ...if you say you can't then go ahead and keep your dusty fingers in your ears.
good day Trilobyte
My point is this: Nothing is going to be resolved on this message board. It's far more interesting to run it down yourself and run into the roadblocks and either get around them, or not. I think you'll find that some people have run into roadblocks and are reporting their findings here, after they've done something.thirt33n wrote:again, skott k, for some reason you are most easily "heard" (by me at least) while others who throw the same, "if you think it should be there then make it happen yourself." are not...
Sounds like the appropriate measures are already in place, right?kittyrodriguez wrote:
The only immediate suggestion I have is to educate people on the availability of Mental Health assistance through ESD, and have good liaisons to assist those who do wish to travel to Reno to undergo an examination. The OP stated that the girl was possibly unwilling to go to Reno because of uncertainty on how she would return to her friends/relatives and belongings at the event. Perhaps if she had known that a caring mental health liaison would remain with her through the ordeal and would facilitate her easy return to the playa, she would have been more willing.
Finally, as a community, we need protect each other and ourselves. We are a family.
I'd be very interested in hearing the details of your threatened accusation. Why is she threatening you?scott_k wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that you are saying that you feel that anyone who considers them self to be a rape victim is entitled to publicly naming their alleged attacker without due process. As another man who has been threatened of being falsely accused of rape (I have pages of emails and text messages stating the perpetrator's intentions), I am disgusted that you think it is acceptable to tarnish any man or woman's reputation without due process. Such accusations could be career-ending for an individual, regardless of if they are untrue and thrown out in court.
You yourself have saidHow are you going to change that by stripping people of their right to due process? I am in no way siding with the rapist, and I think it's absolutely awful that this has happened. However, If the victim desires to bring the rapist to justice, it is incumbent upon him/ her to take every opportunity to collect evidence. Due process is how we protect the rights of the innocent, and YES IT DOES MATTER.omgrey wrote: as a culture, we think that "actual rapists" go to jail. They don't.
Agreed. He sure does.MacGlenver wrote:
I think the real issue here is the rape -- not the impossibility of getting the test administered. This guy needs to be prosecuted.
Wow. Really. With the "if you don't like this country, leave it" argument. Nice. Quite predictable, actually.scott_k wrote:@omgrey
I apologize as I do not have the time to answer all of the questions in your response to me. If you don't think due process is a fair system that *works*, then perhaps you should move to a country where it is not one of your protected rights and see how safe you feel.
I'm not in a position to answer most of your questions regarding the individual who at one point threatened to formally accuse me of rape. However, I can tell you that I (like so many others) have had to screenshot text messages and download emails from the would-be accuser documenting extortion (for example, "get back together with me or I'll screw you over... I swear to fucking god... I'll say whatever it takes and no one will listen to you...). I would think that you of all people would be horribly offended to see how people are willing to take advantage of the laws that are in place to punish actual perpetrators, like the one who attacked you.
Loosening our nation's policies with regard to due process will not bring more rapists to justice. It would only be a matter of time before someone slanders you and ruins your reputation, and you'd have no legal recourse to defend yourself.
Beautifully said.scucurullo wrote: Shining light on our dark corners is the only way to protect what we have co-created.
By using the word "either", are you making a subtle suggestion that you'd like the opportunity say outright?omgrey wrote:scott_k wrote:@omgrey
No time to answer my questions. Interesting.
My rapist won't respond to the accusations either.
He just hides behind "I would never do that," and refuses to speak to the events.
Nope. No subtle suggestion here. I speak my mind, or haven't you noticed?scott_k wrote:By using the word "either", are you making a subtle suggestion that you'd like the opportunity say outright?omgrey wrote:scott_k wrote:@omgrey
No time to answer my questions. Interesting.
My rapist won't respond to the accusations either.
He just hides behind "I would never do that," and refuses to speak to the events.
hold on, I'm going to go make some popcorn.
Pretty much any emergency physician can and does conduct rape exams. (I've done a few over the years.) I was under the impression that the main medical facility at BM was staffed by ED physicians. The kits are pretty much idiot-proof with a bunch of labeled containers/bags and instructions. So in theory they could be done on the playa but when it comes to solid forensic evidence I would want it done in Reno even if the BM docs were willing. Testing for rape drugs, good photos, the whole thing that police do would really happen better in a bigger city. The doctor who does the exam and the initial responding officers are all likely to be called as witnesses if it goes to court. They usually seem to settle one way or the other though. I've never been called for any of the exams I've done.kittyrodriguez wrote: As for the idea that conducting a rape examination on playa is easy, and should be made available, I think many are misunderstanding the major issue here. It is not a matter of the ability to collect the evidence. It is a matter of the viability of such collection in court. Even in the default world, a rape examination cannot be performed at any medical facility by any medical professional. There are specific, licensed centers that use approved labs. Even in major cities with excellent facilities that have spotless records, evidence collected can, and is, disputed and thrown out. It is unreasonable to think that a facility, no matter how state of the art, that is only operational for one or two weeks a year, in a location that is volatile and misunderstood by the general population, would be accepted as an acceptable forensics laboratory.
Conducting an on playa sexual assault examination would be unnecessary trauma for the victim. After suffering through such an examination only to have the evidence discredited would be very difficult for the victim. Any defense attorney would jump on the opportunity to discredit such evidence. "Well, ladies and gentlemen, this examination was conducted in a trailer at Burning Man, you know, that giant rave-orgy in the desert." Victims of assault at Burning Man already are at a disadvantage in court in defaultia because of the location of the crime.
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Thanks for the info ESD. I must agree with you. It's just I'm so passionate about this subject. I did some research and it's a big process gathering evidence and such. It's a shame though that they don't have kits to easily identify the perpatrator.ESDchief wrote:It isn't a matter of funding, it's just not legally feasible to have forensic exams out in the field. If it was we would already have them in place. Medical at Burning Man is managed by Burning Man's Emergency Services Department. More information about ESD is available here: http://911.burningman.com and you can follow up with us via email at 911@burningman.com.maryanimal wrote:Dearest rblackraven,
We need to bring rape kits to the playa. I'll be looking into it. I'll post what I find out. We may have to have a fundraiser if necessary. Can anyone tell me where the Dr's and nurses come from? Local hospitals? I'm going to call around tomorrow to get as much info as I can. This is an issue I can relate to.
