Did you use Bus to Flame?
-
whiskeywhore
- Posts: 15
- Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:36 pm
Did you use Bus to Flame?
And if so, what was your experience? I've heard some bad reports from friends, wondering what others experience was.
-
BoyScoutGirl
- Posts: 1643
- Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:04 pm
- Camp Name: Lamplighters!
- Location: SD, CA
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
A campmate of mine came in on a bus. I'm not sure which company, so I can't name names, but I do know she said it was a pretty crappy experience. Basically, they were running out of room even before stopping to pick up water, so everyone rode the whole way with lots of luggage crammed on their laps and under/on every possible surface. Not hard to imagine this would be the case, given the luggage a typical burner wants/needs to bring along.
When he lights his streetlamp, it is as if he brought one more star to life, or one flower.
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
When he puts out his lamp, he sends the flower, or the star, to sleep.
That is a beautiful occupation.
- Le Petit Prince, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
-
salope
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:27 am
- Burning Since: 2012
- Camp Name: solo mo-fo, Ritz on playa
- Location: Chicago
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
I used the ToFlame bus from Reno to BRC and then back. I would not go nearly so far as to call it a crappy experience. There were some "minor" bumps along the way, but overall I was pleased with the experience.
I was on one of the two buses that were scheduled to depart at 3:00 PM on Sunday and estimated to arrive at the gate at 6:00pm. The bus pickup was at the Reno airport, where the hotel shuttles pick up passengers. The location was convenient, given that most people could use a hotel shuttle to get there.
The operation was pretty efficient, all things considered. The two buses were there on time or mostly on time. People lined up with their luggage, were confirmed as being on the list, and were then directed to one of the two buses.
The drivers and buses were not directly affiliated; they were chartered by the ToFlame people. The drivers were great, all things considered. They worked their asses off loading almost all the luggage themselves. Their attitude was a mixture of amused, resigned, & bemused. They had done this once before, and had some idea of what to expect. One of the drivers was even providing water for passengers during the trip - a courtesy to encourage tipping.
Luggage was an issue. Surprise surprise. The ToFlame website had information on baggage allowance:
Bike space was available for an additional fee.
The baggage allowance was soundly ignored by just about all the passengers. Granted, "small" & "large" are a bit vague, but nearly everyone was somewhat over that, and select people were egregiously over the limit. Consequently, loading the buses took a long time! Eventually they reached the point where everything was loaded except about a dozen bikes for which there was simply no room. And of course we had not yet made the SaveMart stop for groceries.
At this point the process ground to a halt, while the guys running things tried to figure out how they were going to handle it. To their credit, I felt like they "got it" with their attitude. They kept the passengers in the loop, and basically said "Hey, this is the situation. There is no way everything is fitting. We are going to have to work together to sort this out and get on the road." The dozen or so extra bikes were left with the guy running things, who was going to drive them out to BRC the next day in his truck (I assume this worked out, but don't know). They encouraged everyone to not go nuts shopping, since just about all the food and water purchased would have to fit in the passenger area of the coach. Finally we pulled out from the airport about an hour and 45 minutes behind schedule (not that bad, all things considered) and headed to the Keystone SaveMart.
There were some people on the bus who had already done their shopping and had their food packed in bags under the bus, and people who had food getting to BRC with a camp or via other means. But the vast majority of people using the bus service were burgins without any resources or affiliations to lean on, some who had flown in that day or the day before, some internationally, and they had not done their food shopping. And dear goddess, some of these people took that one hour window and panic shopped.
So. Much. Food. People had twice as much water as they needed, and anywhere from 3 to 10 times the amount of food they needed. Water was put under the seats and piled in the back, and food was being put in the overhead compartments and on extra seats. It wasn't so bad that people rode with stuff on their laps, at least on our bus. The loading experience was actually an interesting pre-event microcosm where the burgin wheat was separated from the chaff. A select group of people started working together to get the shit done and get the bus loaded assembly-line style so that we could get the fuck out of there, while everyone else kind of sat around and waited for shit to get done for them. Some of these people must have had very interesting burns!
And of course some people took way longer than an hour to do their shopping. Every time we thought we were done loading everything up, one more straggler would stagger up with a cart FULL of water and food. This repeated itself about 10 times AFTER the allotted hour had passed.
FINALLY we were all packed up and left the SaveMart. We were maybe 3 or 4 hours behind schedule at this point? I’m not sure, I was already on playa time. None of these delays were entirely attributable to the ToFlame people or the drivers. It was our own underprepared, over-packed fault.
And honestly, the whole thing was an early exercise in attitude adjustment/re-alignment for the burn. Is there any trip to the playa that proceeds according to plan? Shit happens. Things don’t go as anticipated. You make your peace with it, figure out what has to be done, and do it. There were people on the bus who were stressing the departure. I was at peace with the experience, thinking to myself, “Really? You’re in that much of a rush to get to what could potentially be a 6-8 hour line?” (On a related note, there were plenty of uniformed people who had no idea there was that much of a potential wait laying in wait for us. People unprepared along the lines of “Oh yeah, I meant to bring a dust mask but then I didn’t.”)
So yeah, a nice little lesson in mindfulness. Be where you are. You’re on a bus! With air conditioning, and a bathroom. It’s pretty fucking nice! It will get there, eventually. It will leave, sooner or later. In the meantime, you’ve got a nice little pre-party of burners. And once we were finally underway, people relaxed and it did become a nice little pre-party. People chatted with their neighbors, compared stories & expectations, shared food. I may or may not have been given a tasty edible by a friendly young lady. It was social mobility, just like they said, golly gee willakers. And compared to being stuck in an over-packed car with no bathroom, it felt pretty damn cushy.
When we hit the traffic backlog on the highway, people got out of the bus, smoked their cigarettes, stretched their legs, soaked in the ambient excitement in the air.
When we got to greeters and gate, things were a little less than smooth. They didn’t quite know what to do with us. We were greeted and gated in one awkward swoop. They were going to have us all get off the bus & line up with tickets, then changed their minds. They checked tickets on the bus and greeted us as a group while logistics were being figured out elsewhere in the hierarchy. No bell ringing (it was windy & dusty as hell at that point) and we didn’t even get the WhatWhenWhere (lost in the shuffle, I suspect). They almost sent us to D lot to get sorted out. Apparently they thought the driver was supposed to have credentials he didn’t have; he was stubborn about not jumping through their hoops; eventually it turned out he maybe did have the placard he was supposed to have, they just didn’t know what they were supposed to be looking for. It was a little hazy, with conflicting explanations. Eventually word came down the line, we got the green light, and made it through.
We were dropped off by the Artery, the bus was quickly unloaded, and then you were on your own. Most people seemed to have made some plans to get their stuff where they were going. A few poor souls were winging it.
The return trip was much less eventful. My bus was only half full. Loading was much less eventful and we left about 10 minutes after the scheduled departure. 6PM Monday and we pretty much drove straight out to the highway. Perfect. The driver even let us persuade him to stop at one of the local stores so we didn't have to wait till Reno for our hot dog/junk food/beverage/whatever fix.
There was a slight issue where the buses had been told they couldn’t use the “bus depot” near the Artery for the return trip pickup. The buses were too big for driving in the city. The location was changed to 6:00 & J. I heard the news randomly at some point during the week, but other people seemed to have struggled to figure out what was going on with the pickup. I know there was info posted at Playa Info about the changes, and I assume they posted info at the former bus depot.
So yeah.
Is there room for improvement? Sure.
The ToFlame people will hopefully make some changes to how they handle luggage issues in the future. They need backup transportation planned for overflow luggage. They need more detailed limits on baggage allotment & need to communicate that information more clearly & forcefully. Perhaps a cubic footage allotment & specified charges for overage? They should perhaps skip the Savemart stop altogether and make people pre-shop, although I know there were people who had flown in and gone more or less straight to the bus, and for them it was really convenient.
The Borg should really be encouraging more of this kind of transportation to and from BRC. To do that they need to have better Gate processes and guidelines in effect for charter buses. Definite room for improvement.
But on the whole I thought it was a great way to arrive. Stress free once we were on the road; no worries about being pulled over or breaking down; relaxing experience not having to drive; and contrary to typical “Don’t start the party till you’re parked” advice, you could totally start the party early & knock back a few if you were so inclined.
I was on one of the two buses that were scheduled to depart at 3:00 PM on Sunday and estimated to arrive at the gate at 6:00pm. The bus pickup was at the Reno airport, where the hotel shuttles pick up passengers. The location was convenient, given that most people could use a hotel shuttle to get there.
The operation was pretty efficient, all things considered. The two buses were there on time or mostly on time. People lined up with their luggage, were confirmed as being on the list, and were then directed to one of the two buses.
The drivers and buses were not directly affiliated; they were chartered by the ToFlame people. The drivers were great, all things considered. They worked their asses off loading almost all the luggage themselves. Their attitude was a mixture of amused, resigned, & bemused. They had done this once before, and had some idea of what to expect. One of the drivers was even providing water for passengers during the trip - a courtesy to encourage tipping.
Luggage was an issue. Surprise surprise. The ToFlame website had information on baggage allowance:
Each ToFlame Reservation Includes
Space for 1 large bag, 1 small bag,
1 tent & 15 gallons of water
Scheduled stop at Save Mart in Reno
...
You can bring two small items, like bags and coolers, on the bus and
put larger items in the undercarriage.
Bike space was available for an additional fee.
The baggage allowance was soundly ignored by just about all the passengers. Granted, "small" & "large" are a bit vague, but nearly everyone was somewhat over that, and select people were egregiously over the limit. Consequently, loading the buses took a long time! Eventually they reached the point where everything was loaded except about a dozen bikes for which there was simply no room. And of course we had not yet made the SaveMart stop for groceries.
At this point the process ground to a halt, while the guys running things tried to figure out how they were going to handle it. To their credit, I felt like they "got it" with their attitude. They kept the passengers in the loop, and basically said "Hey, this is the situation. There is no way everything is fitting. We are going to have to work together to sort this out and get on the road." The dozen or so extra bikes were left with the guy running things, who was going to drive them out to BRC the next day in his truck (I assume this worked out, but don't know). They encouraged everyone to not go nuts shopping, since just about all the food and water purchased would have to fit in the passenger area of the coach. Finally we pulled out from the airport about an hour and 45 minutes behind schedule (not that bad, all things considered) and headed to the Keystone SaveMart.
There were some people on the bus who had already done their shopping and had their food packed in bags under the bus, and people who had food getting to BRC with a camp or via other means. But the vast majority of people using the bus service were burgins without any resources or affiliations to lean on, some who had flown in that day or the day before, some internationally, and they had not done their food shopping. And dear goddess, some of these people took that one hour window and panic shopped.
So. Much. Food. People had twice as much water as they needed, and anywhere from 3 to 10 times the amount of food they needed. Water was put under the seats and piled in the back, and food was being put in the overhead compartments and on extra seats. It wasn't so bad that people rode with stuff on their laps, at least on our bus. The loading experience was actually an interesting pre-event microcosm where the burgin wheat was separated from the chaff. A select group of people started working together to get the shit done and get the bus loaded assembly-line style so that we could get the fuck out of there, while everyone else kind of sat around and waited for shit to get done for them. Some of these people must have had very interesting burns!
And of course some people took way longer than an hour to do their shopping. Every time we thought we were done loading everything up, one more straggler would stagger up with a cart FULL of water and food. This repeated itself about 10 times AFTER the allotted hour had passed.
FINALLY we were all packed up and left the SaveMart. We were maybe 3 or 4 hours behind schedule at this point? I’m not sure, I was already on playa time. None of these delays were entirely attributable to the ToFlame people or the drivers. It was our own underprepared, over-packed fault.
And honestly, the whole thing was an early exercise in attitude adjustment/re-alignment for the burn. Is there any trip to the playa that proceeds according to plan? Shit happens. Things don’t go as anticipated. You make your peace with it, figure out what has to be done, and do it. There were people on the bus who were stressing the departure. I was at peace with the experience, thinking to myself, “Really? You’re in that much of a rush to get to what could potentially be a 6-8 hour line?” (On a related note, there were plenty of uniformed people who had no idea there was that much of a potential wait laying in wait for us. People unprepared along the lines of “Oh yeah, I meant to bring a dust mask but then I didn’t.”)
So yeah, a nice little lesson in mindfulness. Be where you are. You’re on a bus! With air conditioning, and a bathroom. It’s pretty fucking nice! It will get there, eventually. It will leave, sooner or later. In the meantime, you’ve got a nice little pre-party of burners. And once we were finally underway, people relaxed and it did become a nice little pre-party. People chatted with their neighbors, compared stories & expectations, shared food. I may or may not have been given a tasty edible by a friendly young lady. It was social mobility, just like they said, golly gee willakers. And compared to being stuck in an over-packed car with no bathroom, it felt pretty damn cushy.
When we hit the traffic backlog on the highway, people got out of the bus, smoked their cigarettes, stretched their legs, soaked in the ambient excitement in the air.
When we got to greeters and gate, things were a little less than smooth. They didn’t quite know what to do with us. We were greeted and gated in one awkward swoop. They were going to have us all get off the bus & line up with tickets, then changed their minds. They checked tickets on the bus and greeted us as a group while logistics were being figured out elsewhere in the hierarchy. No bell ringing (it was windy & dusty as hell at that point) and we didn’t even get the WhatWhenWhere (lost in the shuffle, I suspect). They almost sent us to D lot to get sorted out. Apparently they thought the driver was supposed to have credentials he didn’t have; he was stubborn about not jumping through their hoops; eventually it turned out he maybe did have the placard he was supposed to have, they just didn’t know what they were supposed to be looking for. It was a little hazy, with conflicting explanations. Eventually word came down the line, we got the green light, and made it through.
We were dropped off by the Artery, the bus was quickly unloaded, and then you were on your own. Most people seemed to have made some plans to get their stuff where they were going. A few poor souls were winging it.
The return trip was much less eventful. My bus was only half full. Loading was much less eventful and we left about 10 minutes after the scheduled departure. 6PM Monday and we pretty much drove straight out to the highway. Perfect. The driver even let us persuade him to stop at one of the local stores so we didn't have to wait till Reno for our hot dog/junk food/beverage/whatever fix.
There was a slight issue where the buses had been told they couldn’t use the “bus depot” near the Artery for the return trip pickup. The buses were too big for driving in the city. The location was changed to 6:00 & J. I heard the news randomly at some point during the week, but other people seemed to have struggled to figure out what was going on with the pickup. I know there was info posted at Playa Info about the changes, and I assume they posted info at the former bus depot.
So yeah.
Is there room for improvement? Sure.
The ToFlame people will hopefully make some changes to how they handle luggage issues in the future. They need backup transportation planned for overflow luggage. They need more detailed limits on baggage allotment & need to communicate that information more clearly & forcefully. Perhaps a cubic footage allotment & specified charges for overage? They should perhaps skip the Savemart stop altogether and make people pre-shop, although I know there were people who had flown in and gone more or less straight to the bus, and for them it was really convenient.
The Borg should really be encouraging more of this kind of transportation to and from BRC. To do that they need to have better Gate processes and guidelines in effect for charter buses. Definite room for improvement.
But on the whole I thought it was a great way to arrive. Stress free once we were on the road; no worries about being pulled over or breaking down; relaxing experience not having to drive; and contrary to typical “Don’t start the party till you’re parked” advice, you could totally start the party early & knock back a few if you were so inclined.
Keep Burning Man potentially natal.
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
Bus for the people, moving truck for the luggage and bikes. No stopping for shopping. Then, I think they'd have something worthwhile.
-
theCryptofishist
- Posts: 40312
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2004 9:28 am
- Burning Since: 2017
- Location: In Exile
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
But if the people who use the bus are out of towners without transport, the no shopping becomes another issue...
The Lady with a Lamprey
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.
Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
OK...but you don't need a shopping cart full of anything. The water could be prearranged and preloaded. Unless all these people are manhandling coolers and ice onto the bus, they aren't buying perishable food.
This is what I ate during the entire week (stuff with calories):
(3) cans Chef Boyardee
(2) Clif bars
(2) small granola bars
(8) strips of bacon
(2) pancakes
(1) cup of soup
(2) handfuls of cheetos and tortilla chips
(1) burrito
(1) handle, approx, of various alcohol and mixers
(3) cans of coconut water
That would all fit in a single grocery bag, with room to spare.
As an insufferable noob with my own transportation, I of course brought 5 or 6 times that amount.
Edit: For reference, I am 6'3" tall and weigh 250 pounds.
This is what I ate during the entire week (stuff with calories):
(3) cans Chef Boyardee
(2) Clif bars
(2) small granola bars
(8) strips of bacon
(2) pancakes
(1) cup of soup
(2) handfuls of cheetos and tortilla chips
(1) burrito
(1) handle, approx, of various alcohol and mixers
(3) cans of coconut water
That would all fit in a single grocery bag, with room to spare.
As an insufferable noob with my own transportation, I of course brought 5 or 6 times that amount.
Edit: For reference, I am 6'3" tall and weigh 250 pounds.
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
Agreed, pre-purchased water (maybe in those 2.5 gallon containers) and perhaps a milk crate (or other standardized container, like a specific rubbermaid) of food could be imposed. If someone wants to pre-purchase it, great, if not, you supply $3 for the crate and then you fill it to the brim in the store.
There is going to be a limit to human self-control, no matter what. There's no shopping trip like a last-minute Burner shopping trip.
There is going to be a limit to human self-control, no matter what. There's no shopping trip like a last-minute Burner shopping trip.
*** The Burning Man Survival Guide ***
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger
"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle
"I must've lost it when I was twerking at the trash fence." -- BBadger
"Snark away, ePlaya, you magnificent bastards." -- McStrangle
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
Let me get this straight. Three cans of pasta, four snack bars, eight strips of bacon, two pancakes, a cup of soup, two handfuls of snacks, three cans of coconut water, and a burrito?maladroit wrote:This is what I ate during the entire week
How long were you out there? That'd keep me going like three days, and I'm 6'2 & 210!
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
I was there from Tuesday to Monday and you forgot the alcohol and sugary mixers!
-
zombeefood
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 2:36 pm
- Burning Since: 2012
- Camp Name: Shadyvil
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
I took the To Flame Bus to and from the Burn. Salope’s description of the trip to BRC was pretty accurate. It wasn’t perfect, but everyone got where they needed to go with their supplies, so no real complaints.
I would like to offer a little clarity for the trip back. For the record, there wasn’t any notice or information posted at the drop off location (6:30 & A) and I wasn’t one of the lucky ones who happened to stumble upon the new location information. The first indication that the location had changed was the bus not showing up. My travel partner went to Playa Info while I watched our pile of gear and he managed to get to 6:00 & K right as the bus was pulling out. The driver told him that he would have to wait until the 6:00 pm bus, (this was at 12:30 pm) but that there would be plenty of room.
We were low on water and no longer had access to shade etc, but we managed to get all of our gear to the new pick up location and managed to find places to get out of the sun while keeping hydrated. We arrived back at the bus stop at 5:15 pm and the driver was not exactly sympathetic to our cause. The driver seemed to feel that it was our fault for missing the bus, and initially didn’t want to let us on the bus (which was the last bus leaving from the Playa). He eventually made it clear that he was angling for a cash bribe to let us onboard. As I said, we were at this point almost out of water, and there wasn’t any certainty that we would find a ride back to Reno anytime soon, so it was pretty obvious that the driver had us by the balls and we coughed up the cash.
To top it off, after 6:00 pm the driver announced that not everyone had arrived, but we were leaving anyways. I’m fairly sure that the missing people were probably at 6:00 & A without even the benefit of Playa Info being open to point them in the right direction. Hopefully they made it home without too much of a struggle.
I wasn’t impressed by how To Flame bus handled the location change. They should have put up some information at the drop off point, and probably shouldn’t have used our situation to extract cash from us. I would never ride with them again, and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone else take the risk either.
I would like to offer a little clarity for the trip back. For the record, there wasn’t any notice or information posted at the drop off location (6:30 & A) and I wasn’t one of the lucky ones who happened to stumble upon the new location information. The first indication that the location had changed was the bus not showing up. My travel partner went to Playa Info while I watched our pile of gear and he managed to get to 6:00 & K right as the bus was pulling out. The driver told him that he would have to wait until the 6:00 pm bus, (this was at 12:30 pm) but that there would be plenty of room.
We were low on water and no longer had access to shade etc, but we managed to get all of our gear to the new pick up location and managed to find places to get out of the sun while keeping hydrated. We arrived back at the bus stop at 5:15 pm and the driver was not exactly sympathetic to our cause. The driver seemed to feel that it was our fault for missing the bus, and initially didn’t want to let us on the bus (which was the last bus leaving from the Playa). He eventually made it clear that he was angling for a cash bribe to let us onboard. As I said, we were at this point almost out of water, and there wasn’t any certainty that we would find a ride back to Reno anytime soon, so it was pretty obvious that the driver had us by the balls and we coughed up the cash.
To top it off, after 6:00 pm the driver announced that not everyone had arrived, but we were leaving anyways. I’m fairly sure that the missing people were probably at 6:00 & A without even the benefit of Playa Info being open to point them in the right direction. Hopefully they made it home without too much of a struggle.
I wasn’t impressed by how To Flame bus handled the location change. They should have put up some information at the drop off point, and probably shouldn’t have used our situation to extract cash from us. I would never ride with them again, and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone else take the risk either.
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
HAHA! This is so true! You must have seen me at the Keystone on Tuesday!Savannah wrote: There's no shopping trip like a last-minute Burner shopping trip.
In dust we trust.
Re: Did you use Bus to Flame?
Would you try them again if some of the suggestions like - limited luggage and shopping, plus better communication/planning were implemented. It seems to me like it could be a good service for a lot of people and a little help for the planet, if it was run properly. I heard past stories of other shuttle services and they seem to have their challenges.zombeefood wrote: I would never ride with them again, and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone else take the risk either.
The driver that hustled you is a bonehead to say the least.
In dust we trust.