BURNING MAN "ART" at COACHELLA - commerce vs. comm

[PetsUntilEaten]

People couldn't even be bothered to walk 10 feet and throw their water bottle in the trash can.. . . . coachella just made me sick to my stomach. I had forgotten how fucking lazy people can be.

I'm partially with you on this. The trash at Coachella is my major problem with it.

The real problem at Coachella is that they remove full trash cans & don't replace them. So by 9pm there aren't any trash cans even if you wanted one. However, I did see people try to find a place where they could put their trash - like in out of the way piles near a fence. Its a ridiculous amount of trash on the ground - and though they've gotten better at handling the crowds, entrance & such - they are still not very organized at all. I've written Goldenvoice about it & told mentioned it to the few people I know associated with the event. Its sad - I just hope its one of the things that they continue to improve.

Side story: Some guy somehow went ballistic on the Tesla coil a few years ago at Coachella. Climbed the fence to it at noonish on Sunday & climbed the 16 foot tall coil while beating it with a pipe. Only God knows why or what the guy was on. It took 12 security guys to get him down. When I asked Syd I said "Hey I hear some guy tried to climb the coil?" Syd replied dryly, "Oh, not tried. DID. He DID climb it." It took him many hours to repair it which was a total miracle that he could. Apparently the coil had the guy's blood all over it. The blood wasn't from security mishandling him - just from the sharp bits the guy climbed. But then that could have happened at Burning Man just as easily - crazy is crazy where ever you are.

[sparkletarte]

Oh, the trash. At the party in my neck of the woods, the 6,000 people that attend leave a whole of trash. And perfectly good stuff too, that they just don't want to take home. It works out well for us scavengers but it's still disgusting. BM has inspired some of us to see what we can do to improve that problem.

[Crunchy Mama 2]

<<<stuart wrote:
the big rockstarsofburningmanmutaytorandwolfieshow this year bummed me out.

you are not alone!
it bummed us out last year and at the fire-arts oakland show as well. >>>

-----------

Sorry to hear you were both bummed out. For years we have given back to the BM and local LA communities, and from the feedback of our fans we'll continue to do our best. Events like Xara Dulzura, Earthdance, LIB, the 4th of July campout and LA Decom in my personal opinion were all huge successes and really brought a lot of local burners together to show their art and music.

I totally support you not digging us as everyone is entitled to have their own opinion. At BM, I was glad that the people who support us chose to spend playa time at our one night only installation with Xara. There was plenty of other things to do on the playa burn night if you didn't like us. The BMORG asked us to be at the Fire Arts Festival and we had a great time and were happy and honored to be there-we spent thousands of dollars and didn't get any money for it other than some gas reimbursement. Again, there was plenty of other things to see at the crucible and support if you didn't like us. It's all about choice.

It seems there will always be people who complain about us, or any band they don't like for that matter. Sorry it's not your thing - to each his own.
-Crunchy

[playasnake]

People couldn't even be bothered to walk 10 feet and throw their water bottle in the trash can.. . . . coachella just made me sick to my stomach. I had forgotten how fucking lazy people can be.

I'm partially with you on this. The trash at Coachella is my major problem with it.

The real problem at Coachella is that they remove full trash cans & don't replace them. So by 9pm there aren't any trash cans even if you wanted one.

its not just Coachella. Having worked or played festivals all over the planet, this is the norm for large corporate festivals. Even those Eco-Friendly Kiwis made a HUGE mess at Big Day Out when i was there a few years ago. Burning Man is one of the few festivals that addresses the problem ahead of time.... but you also have to remember that Coachella attracts many more people and its the Consumer-Based Nature of the event that leads to the trash problems.

They could do more to address it... It would be great if they did.... but its also kinda surreal to wade through a sea of empty coke bottles and water bottles.

you should see how they clean up coachella. tractors with little trash combines on the back...

[playasnake]

i should mention that Japan is the exception (though that is changing a bit).

[thinkcooper]

Side story: Some guy somehow went ballistic on the Tesla coil a few years ago at Coachella. Climbed the fence to it at noonish on Sunday & climbed the 16 foot tall coil while beating it with a pipe. Only God knows why or what the guy was on. It took 12 security guys to get him down. When I asked Syd I said "Hey I hear some guy tried to climb the coil?" Syd replied dryly, "Oh, not tried. DID. He DID climb it." It took him many hours to repair it which was a total miracle that he could. Apparently the coil had the guy's blood all over it. The blood wasn't from security mishandling him - just from the sharp bits the guy climbed. But then that could have happened at Burning Man just as easily - crazy is crazy where ever you are.

I guess they didn't power up the Tesla Coil because the smell of the crazy guy cooking would have been nasty? Sure would have been an interesting show...

[stuart]

so long as the dialogue is open...

First. let me say that 'Mutaytor' is not a band that I dislike. So lets not make this a matter of taste or a matter or how many fans you do or don't have. I am also not at all against commercial artistic success. Art has been my day job for a decade and a half.

I know you guys have given back to the community but I think it fair to say you have gotten an incredible amount from us. For starters, the L.A. regional serves as a free direct marketing agent for you guys who are not at all shy of aggressive promotion. I can find out when you are playing in Las Vegas, at commercially sponsored non-burner events, weeks in advance via Twan's list. Many perceive this as a hijacking of the regional. Lets also not overlook the snafu with your mailing list last year either, or the inability to be removed from wolfie's list without incessant nagging.

I have spent thousands of dollars on my installations and not expected a dime back, let alone gas reimbursement. I was, however, strongly encouraged by a few parties to disable my playa installation in order to provide gear for your burn night event.

So, it's not just a matter of choice, or rather a choice that is not weighted. One of the things I love about burning man is the perceived egalitarian free for all. When things appear to intrude on that it bums me out.

[PetsUntilEaten]

Thinkcooper -

Not to worry he fired it off Saturday & repaired it for Sunday as well.
He's not only genius - he's mcguyver-y.

[d6]

A couple of years back, my bands played shows for BM (SF shows, not @ BRC) at the "request" of the BmORG, at considerable cost to us, and we did so because
1) we wanted to play there, for that crowd
2) it was F-u-n, and a nice evening out.

we didn't sell anything at those performances, because we were successful enough (by our standards) to not have to, even though it was an 8-hour round trip for the 10 of us to show up and play.
neither did we recruit by email lists at that time, or push the "rockstar" mentality in anyones face.

I do believe the "rockstar" mentality is near the top of my irritant list. I mean c'mon, you're in a band, and maybe can count to 3 or 4, (5/8ths if you're a maniac!)
assuming you're one of those types that can keep time.

the ratio of musicians who have changed the world
(wether by genius, accident, or marketing)
to the imagined, self-important "rockstar" types in everytown, planet earth,
isn't a favorable one, which is not to be construed as me dictating who can like what.
Being in a band just means that automatically, all people won't necessarily like your "sound", and have the choice to look elsewhere. i personally love the "bad" reviews I've received, because I know that it's just a matter of personal taste, and mine didn't match up with theirs.
However, the one thing I take away from 16 years of playing out, touring,etc, is that
we never forced anything on anyone, aside from our unpleasant "music", which i suppose was torture enough.

So sure, I'm off-put by imagined rock-heroes everywhere, and incessant marketing, so is it really too much ask that you don't cram it down my throat as I'm trying to get away, or look in the next record bin, or read an article, or wait in line to buy some food?

I say if you find music you respond to, absolutely enjoy it for all that it's worth, and please allow me do the same.

d6,
rawker,
hessian obsessionist, circa 1983 card-carrying buttrocker, and answer to no one in particulars bad night of sleep.

[Crunchy Mama 2]

Hi Stuart, a few things first, then feel free to IM me privately and I'll shoot you a phone number and we can talk in person.

Stuart wrote: I know you guys have given back to the community but I think it fair to say you have gotten an incredible amount from us

Totally agree with you- we say it all the time. We're constantly giving back with our time, our gear, our marketing lists for other events and more.

the L.A. regional serves as a free direct marketing agent for you guys who are not at all shy of aggressive promotion

Yes we do promote agressively - you know how surviving in LA works. Anyone on our announce list can get unsubbed very easily. As far as the BM regional list, I disagree that Twan is "a free direct marketing agent for us." We do a lot of shows individually and many that collaborate with other LA Burner groups, which does cause us to be rather visible in the community. But I know that people will believe what they want to.

Twan supports and lists lots of artists and events going on in LA - some for profit, some non-commercial burner events. Personally I think he's an amazing regional because he includes so much in his emails. Every week I try to attend and support events he lists because to me, that is also another way of supporting a community that 51 weeks of the year needs to survive. We do a lot of shows, so yes, we get a lot of mentions, but I personally take offense to the term hijacking like we have any personal say so in the matter. It's up to Twan - and I know people all over the country that wish they had as much to choose from as we do.

Lets also not overlook the snafu with your mailing list last year either, or the inability to be removed from wolfie's list without incessant nagging

Wolfie will have to comment on how his list works, but if you're referring the Stardust JRS email, call me and I'll be happy to discuss it - no need to rehash here. Stardust didn't contact us before they strongarmed the BMORG to print their accusation. We weren't allowed to address it in the same issue. Hundreds of emails all said it was an extremely non-burner and cowardly thing to do. Again, if you want to bring this up, lets talk in person.

I was, however, strongly encouraged by a few parties to disable my playa installation in order to provide gear for your burn night event

I have no personal knowledge of this. If you feel strongly enough to bring it up on a public board, call me and I'll get to the bottom of it.

One of the things I love about burning man is the perceived egalitarian free for all. When things appear to intrude on that it bums me out

Fair enough, but part of why I signed up to the eplaya is to at least offer a dialog with anyone who has issues with the Mutaytor. We already have enough disinformation and downright lies spinning around about us. My favorite was some idiot who accused us of getting paid 30 grand by Crimson for the Heartbeat project, or how about the one that we personally ruined any fire spinning on southern california beaches. The fool didn't even realize how easy it was to debunk that one as every month on the regional lists they advertised the local beach burns and how people could bring their tools.

It's endless. I can only offer my time to anyone who wants to talk about issues they have with me or the band. In the end, many will agree to disagree with me, but at least I've tried to open the door.

Understand that I'm not trying to change yours or anyone's mind, just offering my take on things.
Respectfully,
Crunchy

[geekster]

I guess they didn't power up the Tesla Coil because the smell of the crazy guy cooking would have been nasty? Sure would have been an interesting show...

Maybe someone could market that ... PopTards !

[Bitterman]

Too much writing here! You NERDS need to get a life. Look at internet porn or something. Geeeze...what the hell....

[Good Karma]

I've been to both and BM wins hands down. Although Cochella does have some of the best live music on the planet, it is a far cry from BM. The crowd isn't as highly evolved and you are walking through MOOP all day long. This more than anything convinced me that Cochella doesn't have the social consciousness that BM has. Some of the art that has been to the playa has showed up out at Cochella but the impact is wasted on Ravers.

[PetsUntilEaten]

Yeah, I know!

Those damn ravers just don't get it.

Its funny how much cooler & clued in the rockers, punks, yuppies, goth kids, emos, and industry types are.

Fucking ravers.

Ruin everything.

[nick]

I went to Coachella for the first time this year and although it was on the whole pretty fun, it really made me realize how AWESOME and unique Burning Man is -- Coachella, despite the chandelier and some other pieces, can't hold a candle to BRC!!! Why?

+ The art, such as it was, was dwarfed by the vending booths and stages -- it IS cool to see Buring Man pieces in another venue, but even the chandelier (which I love) seemed buried by the masses of people and vending tents.

+ There were waaaay too many people in the space and there was no place to get away from the madness. Unless you are in the VIP area, getting water, food, shade or a place to sit is almost impossible.

+ The extreme temperatures, relatively high humidity and lack of shade made it more brutal than even Burning Man -- most of the enclosed tents were incredibly hot and humid.

+ Obviously the trash, vending, logos and amount of gee-gawing are downers as well, but they are to be expected.

So props to those who haul cool art out to the palm desert, but Burning Man would clearly beat Coachella in a fair fight.

Now, if I could just get Kraftwerk to play in my dome next year...

-n

[d6]

if you can get KrAftwerk, or even their "robots", to play in your dome, i'll haul away the trash myself.

d6