2012 Experiences with Police

[Playa Hater]

... A man comes up from behind me and picks up a bicycle and begins to walk along side me. ... He put down the bicycle and walked back to wherever he came from...

So this guy was steeling a bicycle too? Dropped it and took off?

No. I believe it was an officer acting as if he was just another burner hopping on his bike and leaving the party like my girlfriend and I were. I'm thinking he was using the bike as part of his cover. It was obviously not his bike cause after I called him out he just carelessly dropped the bike and walked away.

I honestly do not mind LEOs at the burn. With a city our size they are a necessity. It's just an awkward feeling having someone come and try and set me up when I know I am not doing anything wrong or illegal. Feeling like they were watching me from a distance and deciding 'oh he looks like a good target'.

[Theraplst]

I myself had only good encounters with law enforcement last year, so I only have good(ish) things to say about them. One off duty BRC official (don't want to identify person further, dunno if that's my place) came around while me and some friends were smoking and sat with us for a bit. Gave us some good advice on some cool things out in the deep playa (we were a group of virgins). Hung around and smoked for a bit, had a good time.

My only other experience was this one, which just made me laugh. (see attachment)

[Playa Hater]

One off duty BRC official (don't want to identify person further, dunno if that's my place) came around while me and some friends were smoking and sat with us for a bit. Gave us some good advice on some cool things out in the deep playa (we were a group of virgins).

BRC Official? I'm assuming you are talking about a Ranger? Not an LEO?

[theCryptofishist]

One off duty BRC official (don't want to identify person further, dunno if that's my place) came around while me and some friends were smoking and sat with us for a bit. Gave us some good advice on some cool things out in the deep playa (we were a group of virgins).

BRC Official? I'm assuming you are talking about a Ranger? Not an LEO?

Heck, he could be referring to an llc member.

[winebuff]

Love this! I will be saying the same if it happens to me. I dont do drugs so this makes me giggle

I remember this past burn my girl and I were walking back to camp from the 10 & Esplanade area. A man comes up from behind me and picks up a bicycle and begins to walk along side me. He says to me flat out "wow that was a great party. Do you have any extra drugs for sale"? I laughed, looked at him and said no I don't sorry. He asks me "what about your girl does she have anything extra to sell"? I said "no officer we don't have anything for you. Sorry". He put down the bicycle and walked back to wherever he came from.

I think I made him feel awkward.

[Playa Hater]

One off duty BRC official (don't want to identify person further, dunno if that's my place) came around while me and some friends were smoking and sat with us for a bit. Gave us some good advice on some cool things out in the deep playa (we were a group of virgins).

BRC Official? I'm assuming you are talking about a Ranger? Not an LEO?

Heck, he could be referring to an llc member.

Ah. True.

[canexplain]

A vigil here after the theater shootings. Notice the top of the bldg.....




In general cops are ok by me and they are just doing their job. They were a bit much here a while ago at the DNC.....cr****

[The Rat Lady]

My ride to the playa was one nightmare after another, truck kept stalling out on the fwy out of SF, then in Reno, the truck stop was OUT of Diesel! Got to Fernley and we locked the keys in the truck.....as we were finally underway again, we get pulled over by Tribal Police, Both of us being well past "kids" when he asked if we knew why he pulled us over the driver said he had no idea since we were being very careful to stay under 35, the officer said actually, it was 25 until part way up the hill. Then he asked the driver if he would mind answering a personal question...he said no problem....officer asked "How old are you Sir?" answer 62, then the officer said "Now I have a personal policy, it's not the Tribal Police policy, not anyone else's policy that I know of, just mine. I don't ticket Seniors." Followed by, "You folks on your way to Burning Man?" We said yes, he then proceeded to tell us to be VERY careful, not only were there cops, at least one for every mile, from there to BM, but that they had been shagging cattle off the road all night! Wished us well and let us go on our way.

We were both shocked! Kinda renewed our faith in humankind.

[Earthwalker]

BBadger, I thank you for your excellent posts in this thread. I have a few quick questions...

1-It's probably difficult for us to extrapolate from this thread the actual percentage of attendees who had difficulties with the police, but, generally speaking (2013 will be my 1st year), just how prevalent are LEOs? Is the place literally swarming with them, and are you basically hassled on a daily basis? My buddy went in 2011 and he said he had absoultely zero interactions with them, not even at the entrance (said he didn't even see any)

2-What's the deal with the tennis balls o' weed people keep mentioning?

3-I read the posts, researched online, and watched the two vids Badger posted. However, I have a couple quick questions (sorry, I'm very detail oriented...bear with me).

Here's my story plot.....

Earthwalker and bunnylover1279 are approaching the gate in their suburban Honda minivan after a long drive from San Diego. They are tired, but not under the influence of anything, save some red bull and maybe some red vines. They pull up, are waiting in line. A cop approaches and it goes as follows:

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Bunnylover1279: Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question.

(Question 1: Isn't saying that going to provoke the cop to do whatever he can to make your life difficult? I don't think they generally like being challenged)

Cop: Excuse me? Ok, well we can play it that way. I can have the dogs here in five minutes
(assuming he does get the dogs in a reasonable amount of time, as in the time it would take for him to write a ticket etc, and per Illinois per Caballes, I have to stay)

(Question 2: Dog comes, has a hit on the car (or he lies and says it does), he then has probably cause to search. If he does search, and does find illegal items, won't he, because we didn't "cooperate", want to not only give us a ticket but perhaps take us in?)

I guess my point is, I'd be really tempted to say "No, we do not", then, if he asks to search say "I do not consent. Am I being detained or am I free to go?". It just seems like it's reasonable to decline a search, but saying all robotically "I plan on cooperating, but at this time I respectfully decline to answer that question" would motivate him to go to all lengths to ruin our day.

Could you perhaps line out your overall strategy? From the videos, the strategy seems to be "don't say anything, ever. Yes, you're going to get brought in for questioning, but don't say anything until you have a lawyer, that way, during your trial, they have nothing they can use against you". That's a great strategy in general, but Bunnylover1279 and I just want to get through the gates. If he calls my bluff, and the dogs come, well then I get a ticket anyways. Or are you saying that he's busy, the line is long, and he won't go to all that effort?

Am I missing something?

Thank you kind sirs and madams.

[9ah]

BBadger, I thank you for your excellent posts in this thread. I have a few quick questions...

Earthwalker and bunnylover1279 are approaching the gate in their suburban Honda minivan after a long drive from San Diego. They are tired, but not under the influence of anything, save some red bull and maybe some red vines. They pull up, are waiting in line. A cop approaches and it goes as follows:

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Bunnylover1279: Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question.

(Question 1: Isn't saying that going to provoke the cop to do whatever he can to make your life difficult? I don't think they generally like being challenged)

Cop: Excuse me? Ok, well we can play it that way. I can have the dogs here in five minutes
(assuming he does get the dogs in a reasonable amount of time, as in the time it would take for him to write a ticket etc, and per Illinois per Caballes, I have to stay)

(Question 2: Dog comes, has a hit on the car (or he lies and says it does), he then has probably cause to search. If he does search, and does find illegal items, won't he, because we didn't "cooperate", want to not only give us a ticket but perhaps take us in?)

I guess my point is, I'd be really tempted to say "No, we do not", then, if he asks to search say "I do not consent. Am I being detained or am I free to go?". It just seems like it's reasonable to decline a search, but saying all robotically "I plan on cooperating, but at this time I respectfully decline to answer that question" would motivate him to go to all lengths to ruin our day.

Could you perhaps line out your overall strategy? From the videos, the strategy seems to be "don't say anything, ever. Yes, you're going to get brought in for questioning, but don't say anything until you have a lawyer, that way, during your trial, they have nothing they can use against you". That's a great strategy in general, but Bunnylover1279 and I just want to get through the gates. If he calls my bluff, and the dogs come, well then I get a ticket anyways. Or are you saying that he's busy, the line is long, and he won't go to all that effort?

Am I missing something?

Thank you kind sirs and madams.

Not sure if you were directing the entire post to Badger.... You make your life easier, by a WHOLE lot by not bringing ANYTHING illegal to the playa. IF a cop approaches your vehicle before you get to the gate I'd be surprised... Maybe I'm oblivious, but I don't pay attention to vehicles outside of the entry lanes so I'm not sure how often the police stop ppl before the gate... So yeah, if you are stopped and you don't have anything illegal say no... The gate crew (not LEOs) will ask you the same thing and then proceed to have you get out the car and do a standard check for stowaways.... If you bring something illegal, well then it sounds like you knew the risk and you wanted to go against federal law to begin with.

The decision as to your fine and or imprisonment before you even make it onto the playa is that of the LEOs.

I don't know what red vines are, so I can't answer on that...

My only question is, why would you want to still entertain the idea of sneaking drugs onto the playa?

If you need a buzz smoke some hookah or have an alcoholic beverage... Wouldn't it suck to drive all the way to BRC only to be detained, essentially costing you thousands of dollars because you wanted some weed, molly, or whatever is cool for you.

[lucky420]

Red vines are licorice...

[lucky420]

Think of it this way. You're going into a fair sized city on federal land. Yes there are cops from Washoe co, Pershing co and the BLM (Feds). So you may see a few on one day quite a few on another and then zero on another day. If you go to the big sound camps you will probably see quite a few and then there will be the undercover cops who you don't see.

How would you answer the questions you posed if you were in any other city in America? If you're going to bring something illegal in then I will say it again, keep into the down low and DON'T BE STUPID! Don't share with others...

Nevada does have medical mj but only for our residents and of course the Feds don't see it that way. If it is only a small amount of mj the fine is usually about $700 although your MMV.

This is in no way an endorsement or encouragement to do anything illegal while in BRC

[9ah]

Red vines are licorice...

I thought it sounded like some new designer drug.

[FIGJAM]

Only if you smoke them!

[TT120]

You can't smoke them. They melt and plug up the bong.

[theCryptofishist]

Red vines are licorice...

I thought it sounded like some new designer drug.

I am only familiar with Red Veins.

[9ah]

I'm gonna procure some red vines and offer then to ppl like drugs, slip em in drinks!

Of course with their permission.

[Earthwalker]

Red vines also make for good straws at the movies. Don't do it so much anymore as I'm on the Fat Sick & Nearly Dead juicing craze, but in my younger days I'd sip up soda goodness out of my red vine straw.

I appreciate the feedback. Part of my question is specific to BM, but I was also really intrigued by BBadger's information on this subject. Most of us (myself included) don't have many interactions with cops (ok, not recently), so most people are clueless when it comes to rights. My life is definitely a lot easier by basically never carrying anything illegal with me, but it's still information I am interested in.

PS-I don't drink booze. Hookah can give you a nice buzz if you hold in each hit for a REALLY long time. Gas works too, but you can run into dangers if you try to light a cig afterwards.

Cheers

[gyre]

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Am I missing something?

A dog isn't grounds for a search.

There is a lot written about doing this.
If you are uncertain, say you are nervous and afraid to talk with them.
It is possible to be cordial though, and still not respond to impertinent questions.
Think about, read about it, so you can deal with these things.
You can deflect questions without confrontation.

You can talk about other things.
Some cops are bored.
I sometimes talk about cars with them.
Try to be relaxed, do not show emotion.

Some police will be reasonable, some won't.
Some just won't really talk to you.
Every situation is different.

One caution- try to learn what makes them nervous.
It used to be that they wanted you out of a car, away from potential weapons, etc.
This seems to freak most of them out now.
Ask first.
Don't make sudden moves, especially if you are always armed.
Some don't want your hands in your pockets, others decide quickly if you're a threat or not.

If you aren't carrying anything illegal, it is much easier to act as though you aren't.
Learn your rights.
Assume every cop is honest until they act otherwise.
Sometimes it will make no difference what you do.
Get out alive and file complaints, pursue them and make them stick.

[The Hustler]

The greeters said to make sure I followed speed limits and wore a seatbelt, which I do anyway, and the cops wouldn't bother me. They didn't.

Although, I don't drink or do any drugs so I had nothing to hide but I wouldn't be happy about the invasion of my space for a bullshit search. I'm organized so it would have been a super fast search, but still, I didn't need that.

I saw a few idiots speeding past me. I figured I traveled that far, waited to get it (maybe all of an hour, maybe two) and went through the cost and effort to get there, buy a ticket, buy water, that it was't worth it to give anyone an excuse. (A few retards speeding past the lines of traffic on the way to BRC also, including in the pre-dawn darkness.)

As a volunteer I got to eat in the commissary (cafeteria). The LES people pretty much stayed together
On the playa I ran into two rangers who took turns getting rides in the pink, two-wheeled Cindarella art car. They were hilarious ... so, my LES experience ranged from none/neutral to funny.

[The Hustler]

BBadger, I thank you for your excellent posts in this thread. I have a few quick questions...

1-It's probably difficult for us to extrapolate from this thread the actual percentage of attendees who had difficulties with the police, but, generally speaking (2013 will be my 1st year), just how prevalent are LEOs? Is the place literally swarming with them, and are you basically hassled on a daily basis? My buddy went in 2011 and he said he had absoultely zero interactions with them, not even at the entrance (said he didn't even see any)

2-What's the deal with the tennis balls o' weed people keep mentioning?

3-I read the posts, researched online, and watched the two vids Badger posted. However, I have a couple quick questions (sorry, I'm very detail oriented...bear with me).

Here's my story plot.....

Earthwalker and bunnylover1279 are approaching the gate in their suburban Honda minivan after a long drive from San Diego. They are tired, but not under the influence of anything, save some red bull and maybe some red vines. They pull up, are waiting in line. A cop approaches and it goes as follows:

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Bunnylover1279: Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question.

(Question 1: Isn't saying that going to provoke the cop to do whatever he can to make your life difficult? I don't think they generally like being challenged)

Cop: Excuse me? Ok, well we can play it that way. I can have the dogs here in five minutes
(assuming he does get the dogs in a reasonable amount of time, as in the time it would take for him to write a ticket etc, and per Illinois per Caballes, I have to stay)

(Question 2: Dog comes, has a hit on the car (or he lies and says it does), he then has probably cause to search. If he does search, and does find illegal items, won't he, because we didn't "cooperate", want to not only give us a ticket but perhaps take us in?)

I guess my point is, I'd be really tempted to say "No, we do not", then, if he asks to search say "I do not consent. Am I being detained or am I free to go?". It just seems like it's reasonable to decline a search, but saying all robotically "I plan on cooperating, but at this time I respectfully decline to answer that question" would motivate him to go to all lengths to ruin our day.

Could you perhaps line out your overall strategy? From the videos, the strategy seems to be "don't say anything, ever. Yes, you're going to get brought in for questioning, but don't say anything until you have a lawyer, that way, during your trial, they have nothing they can use against you". That's a great strategy in general, but Bunnylover1279 and I just want to get through the gates. If he calls my bluff, and the dogs come, well then I get a ticket anyways. Or are you saying that he's busy, the line is long, and he won't go to all that effort?

Am I missing something?

Thank you kind sirs and madams.

I don't see the reasoning behind declining to answer. Just say you don't have anything as if you don't. I can see refusing a search of a car or camp or person, but refusing to answer the question and being an asshole is not in your best interest. I found it's better to make dealings with LES as quick and polite as possible.

It's a little game in a way, sitting in a packed car with a eleventy-hundred-mile line of people behind you isn't the time to hash out legal precedents with law enforcement. You can refuse to answer, but it's not the smartest fight to pick. You're going to lose. Not all cops are good, not all of them follow the laws (not all of them know the laws), not all are intelligent or fair. Some will write bogus tickets and pretend to be nice about it, some will plant bags of weed, some will rape, rob and lie. That's the world in which we live and he have to deal with it. However, many LES are good people, who are in that line of work for the right reasons. But LES are more than just the Washoe and Pershing County Sheriffs, and Nevada state police, but they're also BLM rangers and I think other groups. They all have different missions, different methods and different people so they all act differently.

Keep in mind that LES are not your friends (well, unless they are), they're obligated to enforce laws and rules. If you're forcing their hand then it's difficult to feel bad for you. If you're innocent and fucked over by some asshole cop who is having a bad day or is a racist or something, then you deserve swift and brutal justice.

They're not in BRC to pick on you personally. Or anyone specific.

Some people are not smart and have difficult lives. I know many cops and law enforcement officers are dicks and self-righteous bullies, but not all of them. The LEOs on the playa will probably turn a blind eye to things that would result in a summons elsewhere. Just don't be an idiot and walk around smoking a joint or hand out acid to people. You know how it's funny to get 8-year-olds drunk and give them cigarettes? It's not, but it's especially not funny to do that in front of cops. I think they may be more pissed off you're forcing them to do police stuff and not secretly have a blast at Burning Man while being paid.

I don't understand the need to numb oneself from all of the crazy shit on the playa or the need to for a crutch to enjoy it, but that's your problem.

[The Hustler]

Night of the burn, I was at Burn Wall Street, I was right up on the perimeter to watch the fire. It was extremely hot for sure!!! Afterwards as I got back to the MV and was dancing with a group of friends, 2 officers from Nevada Bureau of Investigations came up to me. They called me by name and asked to take a picture of me. While stunned, once officer put his arm around me saying hey we just want a picture. The second officer snapped the pic, then showed me the picture on the camera saying how good it came out, along with "don't worry, we just want a picture". Then they walked away. I was completely freaked out. My buddy then told me that they spoke to him first (hence knowing my name) and that they were taking pictures of people right on the perimeter. In my state of mind I was so confused, but then let it go. Not sure if it was my attire that they were laughing about, or if it was "lets get pics of potential anarchists". Would love to see that picture again....

That would give me the willies, and I'm not a paranoid person.

[FIGJAM]

Keep it simple!

http://www.copblock.org/14360/something-to-read-to-the-police-when-stopped/

[illy dilly]

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Am I missing something?

A dog isn't grounds for a search.

Careful Gyre.
In Colorado, well at least in Arapahoe, Denver, Douglas, Jefferson, Larimer, and Boulder Counties, a "positive signalling" from a Dog is indeed probable cause, and can get your vehicle searched. I don't know about some of the more rural counties.

[illy dilly]

The greeters said to make sure I followed speed limits and wore a seatbelt, which I do anyway, and the cops wouldn't bother me. They didn't.

Although, I don't drink or do any drugs so I had nothing to hide but I wouldn't be happy about the invasion of my space for a bullshit search. I'm organized so it would have been a super fast search, but still, I didn't need that.

I saw a few idiots speeding past me. I figured I traveled that far, waited to get it (maybe all of an hour, maybe two) and went through the cost and effort to get there, buy a ticket, buy water, that it was't worth it to give anyone an excuse. (A few retards speeding past the lines of traffic on the way to BRC also, including in the pre-dawn darkness.)

As a volunteer I got to eat in the commissary (cafeteria). The LES people pretty much stayed together
On the playa I ran into two rangers who took turns getting rides in the pink, two-wheeled Cindarella art car. They were hilarious ... so, my LES experience ranged from none/neutral to funny.

In 2011 we went through Gates Monday evening just after sunset (we turned off 447 as the sun was setting).
When we got to gates, our Gate checker informed us to make sure that we had no open containers in the car and make sure someone sober was driving, as LEO had already issued 14 reported DUI's between Gates and Greeters to people speeding.

It might seem like a great idea to have a beer while you're waiting in line for 3 hours, but to get a DUI after your already in the city and past gate!?!?!?! TOO STUPID- NOT WORTH IT!!!

[gyre]

They may use it as probable cause or even lie about it, but there is no evidence that a dog can distinguish between a contaminated scent and one coming from actual evidence of a crime.
Tests show they can't.

Some dogs are good at locating items that are actually in an area.
That is a different act from determining probable cause, more akin to psychic juju in this case.
You can only tell what a dog is doing when you have already searched, not before.
A judge saying otherwise doesn't make it real.

Fortunately courts rarely let science or reality interfere with their mumbo jumbo.

Fingerprints are only now being validated scientifically.
There is a lot of bad pseudo science out there.
Don't be fooled.
The csi series all take place in fantasyland.

Forensic experts say there is only one fully vetted court evidence so far - dna.

[Savannah]

BBadger, I thank you for your excellent posts in this thread. I have a few quick questions...

1-It's probably difficult for us to extrapolate from this thread the actual percentage of attendees who had difficulties with the police, but, generally speaking (2013 will be my 1st year), just how prevalent are LEOs? Is the place literally swarming with them, and are you basically hassled on a daily basis? My buddy went in 2011 and he said he had absoultely zero interactions with them, not even at the entrance (said he didn't even see any)

The place is not "swarming" with them, no. There are certainly enough to be noticeable, however, as in any metropolitan area of size. And there are undercover ones you won't notice, especially at the big raves--or going from camp to camp asking to buy drugs. (It might take a couple of Burns for that to happen to you, if ever).

2-What's the deal with the tennis balls o' weed people keep mentioning?

Someone here told a story about tennis balls. I'm still not sure what was going on, but the story (and the responses) are funny.
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=63013

3-I read the posts, researched online, and watched the two vids Badger posted. However, I have a couple quick questions (sorry, I'm very detail oriented...bear with me).

Here's my story plot.....

Earthwalker and bunnylover1279 are approaching the gate in their suburban Honda minivan after a long drive from San Diego. They are tired, but not under the influence of anything, save some red bull and maybe some red vines. They pull up, are waiting in line. A cop approaches and it goes as follows:

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Bunnylover1279: Sir, I respectfully decline to answer that question.

(Question 1: Isn't saying that going to provoke the cop to do whatever he can to make your life difficult? I don't think they generally like being challenged)

Cop: Excuse me? Ok, well we can play it that way. I can have the dogs here in five minutes
(assuming he does get the dogs in a reasonable amount of time, as in the time it would take for him to write a ticket etc, and per Illinois per Caballes, I have to stay)

(Question 2: Dog comes, has a hit on the car (or he lies and says it does), he then has probably cause to search. If he does search, and does find illegal items, won't he, because we didn't "cooperate", want to not only give us a ticket but perhaps take us in?)

I guess my point is, I'd be really tempted to say "No, we do not", then, if he asks to search say "I do not consent. Am I being detained or am I free to go?". It just seems like it's reasonable to decline a search, but saying all robotically "I plan on cooperating, but at this time I respectfully decline to answer that question" would motivate him to go to all lengths to ruin our day.

Could you perhaps line out your overall strategy? From the videos, the strategy seems to be "don't say anything, ever. Yes, you're going to get brought in for questioning, but don't say anything until you have a lawyer, that way, during your trial, they have nothing they can use against you". That's a great strategy in general, but Bunnylover1279 and I just want to get through the gates. If he calls my bluff, and the dogs come, well then I get a ticket anyways. Or are you saying that he's busy, the line is long, and he won't go to all that effort?

Am I missing something?

Thank you kind sirs and madams.

No one can really tell you what to do, because the outcome is not certain either way. You might get fined, you might get hauled in. Citations are not uncommon. Arrests are less common, but do happen. Here are some basic things that can happen.
http://www.burningman.com/preparation/e ... ml#illegal

Here is some math from ePlaya user some seeing eye on Tue Sep 11, 2012 (I have not verified this for myself):

No that was last year. This year, probably the highest.

The different LEOs report separately.

BLM: http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-new ... in-blm-cap
Washoe: http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story ... t-released

These are from a few sources and not all compiled the same way:
2012 (230 citations, 22 arrests, 441 warnings)
2011 (3 arrests, 375 total citations)
2010 (293 total citations; 8 total arrests)
2009 (287 total citations; 9 total arrests)
2008 (190 substance citations, 10 substance arrests)
2007 (331 citations 2 substance arrests)
2006 (155 citations)

What to do is a very personal decision. You'll want to decide in advance what you think is best for you.

If I were stopped, I would be friendly and civil and say (quite honestly) that I don't have anything illegal. For me, silence is not yet "worth it" at that point, even on principle. Someone else might feel differently. I might refuse a search on principle though, even though I have nothing. And then I might have to wait while an officer gets permission to do it, or they might just let me go. Is that the right decision for everyone? No. Some folks would allow the search and that's up to them.

As a rideshare co-pilot, however, I also have to defer to my pilot. They're the ones who will decide whether the search will happen or not.

[illy dilly]

Gyre, you made the Absolute statement that a Dog is not grounds for a search.
Dogs smelling drugs might not be a tried and true science, but I'm stating that in the Denver Metro Area, a dog signaling that they smell drugs is grounds for Probably Cause, and thus you're ass gets searched! And, in court it will not be thrown out as an Illegal Search.
It might not be actual science, but sure is actual Police Practice in Denver Metro.

If you spent a lot of money on fighting a case you might be able to prove that the search was illegal. But, from what I've seen, no one has been able to get it thrown out in court.

Though, with the recent legalization of marijuana in CO, using dogs for Car Sniffs is almost completely thrown out the window. This is one of the issues and developing laws with the legalization.

Cop: good afternoon gents. Had a long drive? Well, I'm bet you're glad to have finally made it. California? Where you guys from? Oh, San Diego, that's great....got any drugs or weapons or illegals?

Am I missing something?

A dog isn't grounds for a search.

Careful Gyre.
In Colorado, well at least in Arapahoe, Denver, Douglas, Jefferson, Larimer, and Boulder Counties, a "positive signalling" from a Dog is indeed probable cause, and can get your vehicle searched. I don't know about some of the more rural counties.

They may use it as probable cause or even lie about it, but there is no evidence that a dog can distinguish between a contaminated scent and one coming from actual evidence of a crime.
Tests show they can't.

Some dogs are good at locating items that are actually in an area.
That is a different act from determining probable cause, more akin to psychic juju in this case.
You can only tell what a dog is doing when you have already searched, not before.
A judge saying otherwise doesn't make it real.

Fortunately courts rarely let science or reality interfere with their mumbo jumbo.

Fingerprints are only now being validated scientifically.
There is a lot of bad pseudo science out there.
Don't be fooled.
The csi series all take place in fantasyland.

Forensic experts say there is only one fully vetted court evidence so far - dna.

[junglesmacks]

A dog hit is most definitely grounds for a search. Saying anything otherwise is just ignorant and uninformed.


NOW.. saying for instance.. dog hits, they find stuff, you go to court on it.. there are legal grounds for the dog search in the first place and it's possible to get the case thrown out on technicalities. That's an entirely different story altogether.

You can bet your ass though that if a dog is brought out and it signals.. your ass is getting searched.

[knowmad]

I wonder....
Police departments and the military are pretty adamant about prosecuting assault on one of their service animals to the point of referring to the Animal as "officer so-n-so". they use these honorifics in court to add weight to the heinousness of crime committed and to give a human face to the victim.

What is to Stop someone from proclaiming and conferring Divinity and cleric rights to ones pet? most States have special sections of search and seizure of religious artefacts and the vestments of the clergy. If I say "My dog Goonie is my spiritual council and we enjoy privileged confidentiality." I can give police the right to search me but am not able to speak for my dog, apparently he doesn't consent to being searched. and why is "officer Rex" sniffing his ass? Is that sexual harassment?