Deep Insights (Gimme)

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 1:15 pm

stuart wrote:love is not unconditional

flame me. I know you want to.

... No flame, but a glowing coal.

Love is not an emotion, though it can (and usually does) start that way; it is a decision that is tried under fire. Point in fact: I've told my children that there is nothing they can do to stop me from loving them. There were times (especially with the youngest, who is just like me) that I was ready to strangle them, but the love has never stopped, because I have made the choice.

I know Stuart was just yankin' our cranks, to see what would pop loose, but this is how I really feel on the matter.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled silliness....

... So, Stuart, Kristy Kreme, and this horse walk into a bar...

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:38 pm

no yankin

I really do believe that.

I am not a parent though and have no plans to be. I think familial love, i.e., blood ties, is different than a chosen pair bonding love. You chose to have children but you were unable to choose who those people are just as they can not choose who their parents are.

I love my friends and choose them as my friends because I love them. I love them because, ultimately, they behave in ways that are extremelely aesthetically pleasing to me. If they begin to behave, consistantly, in ways that are repellent to me I will no longer love them and choose to call them friends. Same goes for my wife.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:48 pm

stuart wrote:no yankin

I really do believe that.

I am not a parent though and have no plans to be. I think familial love, i.e., blood ties, is different than a chosen pair bonding love. You chose to have children but you were unable to choose who those people are just as they can not choose who their parents are.

I love my friends and choose them as my friends because I love them. I love them because, ultimately, they behave in ways that are extremelely aesthetically pleasing to me. If they begin to behave, consistantly, in ways that are repellent to me I will no longer love them and choose to call them friends. Same goes for my wife.

This I agree with, too... because I did the 'unconditional love' thing with a woman who (I found out later) took two lover's on the side... and those were just the guys she was with... I can think of two, maybe three, women she was also with... but, as I said, I didn't know that until later. A humbling, "What-a-jerk-I-am" thing to go through.

It was good though. It sure as hell let me know who I am, and what the range of commitment I was willing to give is.

Would I do it again. Yup... Why? Two words: slow learner

Well, and two more: Idealistic Romantic.

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:54 pm

stuart there is unconditional love and I've felt it from my Guru. He's left his body over 10 years ago, but the afterglow is still powerful today. I think unconditional love exists in everyone, it's just hard to access because of thinking and behavior patterns that are contrary to its acceptance. I believe anything is possible. (hey I'm a Red Sox fan remember)

tisha2 · Post by **tisha2** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:54 pm

stuart wrote:no yankin

I really do believe that.

I am not a parent though and have no plans to be. I think familial love, i.e., blood ties, is different than a chosen pair bonding love. You chose to have children but you were unable to choose who those people are just as they can not choose who their parents are.

I love my friends and choose them as my friends because I love them. I love them because, ultimately, they behave in ways that are extremelely aesthetically pleasing to me. If they begin to behave, consistantly, in ways that are repellent to me I will no longer love them and choose to call them friends. Same goes for my wife.

i think there's a difference between choosing to like and spend time with people whose behavior is aesthetically pleasing, and the uncontrollable glowing love that i feel in my heart for certain people, regardless of whether or not i approve of their behavior.

and we don't all choose to have our children.

Simply Joel · Post by **Simply Joel** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 2:55 pm

samtzu wrote:This I agree with, too... because I did the 'unconditional love' thing with a woman who (I found out later) took two lover's on the side... and those were just the guys she was with... I can think of two, maybe three, women she was also with... but, as I said, I didn't know that until later. A humbling, "What-a-jerk-I-am" thing to go through.

It was good though. It sure as hell let me know who I am, and what the range of commitment I was willing to give is.

Would I do it again. Yup... Why? Two words: slow learner
Well, and two more: Idealistic Romantic.

the words that come to mind for me on this one is.... where is my gun?

Hey Joe

1st verse (Oo-backing vocals on each line)
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that gun in your hand?
Alright. I'm goin down to shoot my old lady,
you know I caught her messin' 'round with another man.
Yeah,! I'm goin' down to shoot my old lady,
you know I caught her messin' 'round with another man.
Huh! And that ain't too cool.

2nd verse (Ah. -backing vocal on each line)
Uh, hey Joe, I heard you shot your woman down,
you shot her down.
Uh, hey Joe, I heard you shot you old lady down,
you shot her down to the ground. Yeah!

Yes, I did, I shot her,
you know I caught her messin' 'round,
messin' 'round town.
Uh, yes I did, I shot her
you know I caught my old lady messin' 'round town.
And I gave her the gun and I shot her!

Alright
(Ah! Hey Joe)
Shoot her one more time again, baby!
(Oo)
Yeah.
(Hey Joe!)
Ah, dig it!
(Hey)
Ah! Ah!
(Joe where you gonna go?)
Oh, alright.

3rd verse
Hey Joe, said now,
(Hey)
uh, where you gonna run to now, where you gonna run to?
Yeah.
(where you gonna go?)
Hey Joe, I said,
(Hey)
where you goin' to run
to now, where you, where you gonna go?
(Joe!)
Well, dig it!
I'm goin' way down south, way down south,
(Hey)
way down south to Mexico way! Alright!
(Joe)
I'm goin' way down south,
(Hey, Joe)
way down where I can be free!
(where you gonna...)
Ain't no one gonna find me babe!
(...go?)
Ain't no hangman gonna,
(Hey, Joe)
he ain't gonna put a rope around me!
(Joe where you gonna..)
You better belive it right now!
(...go?)
I gotta go now!
Hey, hey, hey Joe,
(Hey Joe)
you better run on down!
(where you gonna...)
Goodbye everybody. Ow!
(...go?)
Hey, hey Joe, what'd I say,
(Hey.......................Joe)
run on down.
(where you gonna go?)

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:00 pm

See, that's probably where I am a little "different". If I found out later that someone who I thought was being exclusive with me, wasn't in fact being exclusive, the first thing that would come to my mind is to want to know why she felt she had to sneak ... why she had to be dishonest. Generally when a person is dishonest it is because they don't feel safe telling the truth. They think they are protecting themselves or something they value. Honestly, there would be no need to sneak. If someone feels attracted to someone and has honest feelings and are being true to their heart ... go for it. Just don't forget your responsibilities to your family in the process. Give yourself to love. It really isn't a BAD thing. It can be made INTO a bad thing if you want to ... but it isn't, at least not for me. Once we got over the honesty thing (which might take quite some doing) we could then work on the additional lover(s) thing.

tisha2 · Post by **tisha2** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:04 pm

geekster wrote:See, that's probably where I am a little "different". If I found out later that someone who I thought was being exclusive with me, wasn't in fact being exclusive, the first thing that would come to my mind is to want to know why she felt she had to sneak ... why she had to be dishonest. Generally when a person is dishonest it is because they don't feel safe telling the truth. They think they are protecting themselves or something they value. Honestly, there would be no need to sneak. If someone feels attracted to someone and has honest feelings and are being true to their heart ... go for it. Just don't forget your responsibilities to your family in the process. Give yourself to love. It really isn't a BAD thing. It can be made INTO a bad thing if you want to ... but it isn't, at least not for me. Once we got over the honesty thing (which might take quite some doing) we could then work on the additional lover(s) thing.

i like it, geek. but, unfortunatly, there are also those who *enjoy* being sneaky and dishonest.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:07 pm

geekster wrote:See, that's probably where I am a little "different". If I found out later that someone who I thought was being exclusive with me, wasn't in fact being exclusive, the first thing that would come to my mind is to want to know why she felt she had to sneak ... why she had to be dishonest. Generally when a person is dishonest it is because they don't feel safe telling the truth. They think they are protecting themselves or something they value. Honestly, there would be no need to sneak. If someone feels attracted to someone and has honest feelings and are being true to their heart ... go for it. Just don't forget your responsibilities to your family in the process. Give yourself to love. It really isn't a BAD thing. It can be made INTO a bad thing if you want to ... but it isn't, at least not for me. Once we got over the honesty thing (which might take quite some doing) we could then work on the additional lover(s) thing.

I have never been jealous... ever. I figure if someone wants to be with you, they will... if they don't, they won't. I only asked her to tell me the truth. I honestly wouldn't have minded the occasional foray, if I had known. It was the deception that hurt. I like the truth, I like to tell the truth, and I don't like feeling like I am an oblivious idiot. Well, I told the truth. She didn't. That's why I'm single now... like Diogenes (sp?), I am looking for that one honest person. And like Diogenes, I may wind up living in a barrel by the edge of the ocean before before I find one.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:10 pm

tisha2 wrote: unfortunatly, there are also those who *enjoy* being sneaky and dishonest.

Yeah, I know. I have actually MET a couple of those ... people that enjoy the thrill of the illicit relationship and the risk and the juggling, etc. It feels ... exciting and dangerous ... in a James Bond sort of way. At least that is how it was described to me. I am just not into the romantic tradecraft to that extent. It would take the fun out of the relationship. Actually, at that point the person is in love with the IDEA of the relationship itself than the other participant in it. They are in love with a role in a drama.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:13 pm

geekster wrote:Actually, at that point the person is in love with the IDEA of the relationship itself than the other participant in it.

That should read:

Actually, at that point the person is more in love with the IDEA of the relationship itself than they are with the other participant in it.

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:18 pm

samtzu wrote:I am looking for that one honest person. And like Diogenes, I may wind up living in a barrel by the edge of the ocean before before I find one.

Let's hope not, Samtzu. You deserve it. I think you will find it.

samtzu · Post by **samtzu** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:25 pm

geekster wrote:
samtzu wrote:I am looking for that one honest person. And like Diogenes, I may wind up living in a barrel by the edge of the ocean before before I find one.
Let's hope not, Samtzu. You deserve it. I think you will find it.

Thanks, Geekster, I appreciate it...

By the way... you and your daughter look fantastic together... It's great when parents and children can share common interests like that. My kids and I used to play Irish Stand Down together... but my daughter kept winning so we guys quit playing.

Rian Jackson · Post by **Rian Jackson** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:27 pm

hmm... they say some shit about ENFPs trying to save the world.
yeah, whatever.
i'm not like that at all.

'captain wildchild?' my ass.

buckethead alien · Post by **buckethead alien** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:35 pm

<i>Since we're showing off here...</i>

geekster · Post by **geekster** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:39 pm

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:05 pm

awwwwwwweeee!!!!!!!!!!

humor can be deep too..like if you try swallowing some contact lenses, you'll have in-sight

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:57 pm

glowing love that i feel in my heart for certain people, regardless of whether or not i approve of their behavior.

and we don't all choose to have our children.

tisha, honestly, if you are loving people who are habitually behaving badly in your eyes you need to look into that. Observe the patterns.

as per choosing to have kids, I get you. I meant weather you choose to have them or not you can not choose who they will be. Like yer parents.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 4:58 pm

CA,

come on man, you know I aint gonna go for that.

enjoy the game though

DVD Burner · Post by **DVD Burner** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:10 pm

buckethead alien wrote:

<i>Since we're showing off here...</i>

Great pic. what kind of camera and what's that on her face?

dana · Post by **dana** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 5:53 pm

samtzu wrote:Always be polite to the police; they are

in a fouler mood than you

better armed than you

(too late for that sage advice.) I would add: happy to falsify police reports

tisha2 · Post by **tisha2** » Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:13 pm

stuart wrote:
glowing love that i feel in my heart for certain people, regardless of whether or not i approve of their behavior.

and we don't all choose to have our children.
tisha, honestly, if you are loving people who are habitually behaving badly in your eyes you need to look into that. Observe the patterns.

as per choosing to have kids, I get you. I meant weather you choose to have them or not you can not choose who they will be. Like yer parents.

i hear ya, and this is exactly what i'm talking about ... i recognized that i had a huge soft spot for folks who are different, eccentric, free-spirited. tried to live with a few, and married one. turned out it was real hard to look myself in the eye while supporting a free-spirit. am learning to *love* them without paying their bills, etc. I don't like that they don't bend to the needs of our society (and it makes them real hard to share a home with), but i don't love them any less.
i am separating 'love' from 'mating'.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 11:21 am

free-spirit

is this a euphamism for free-loading, philandering hippie?

You seem like a swell girl. I hope that you learn to choose to love folks who honor and respect you.

tisha2 · Post by **tisha2** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 12:00 pm

stuart wrote:
free-spirit
is this a euphamism for free-loading, philandering hippie?

You seem like a swell girl. I hope that you learn to choose to love folks who honor and respect you.

occasionally, and unfortunatly, yes. more that 'free-spirit' often = 'unable or unwilling to bend to a culture that requires a paycheck'.

and, thank you, Stuart. I'm working on it...at least learning to let the good ones closer, and keep an eye on my wallet (and my heart) around the renegades...

aforceforgood · Post by **aforceforgood** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:41 pm

stuart wrote:http://blennus.com/index.php?option=con ... 29&Itemid=

feel the burn cupcake

Damn, why did I look at this in the morning when I don't have time to get back into bed with my wife...

cowboyangel wrote:stuart there is unconditional love and I've felt it from my Guru. He's left his body over 10 years ago, but the afterglow is still powerful today. I think unconditional love exists in everyone, it's just hard to access because of thinking and behavior patterns that are contrary to its acceptance. I believe anything is possible. (hey I'm a Red Sox fan remember)

One of the great revelations of my young life is that there are different kinds of love, romantic, friendship, and general- and that lasting, abiding love is a choice, not just liking someone's good qualities but loving them enough to forgive their humanity and faults.

other Deep Insights;

to fully appreciate the light requires a certain amount of darkness...

if you're waiting for the world to get it's shit together, you're gonna be waiting a looong time...

Women are insane. So are men. (see point above regarding loving them despite their faults) Women spend gobs of money on nylons that may or may not work straight out of the box. Men spend gobs of money on a car in order to woo women who love their cars instead of them. Both sexes spend entirely too much money on designer/brand name pants made from frikkin BURLAP for chrissake (jeans).

Where you look, that's where you go.

regynalonglank · Post by **regynalonglank** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:43 pm

there was a while when i was first married where i dropped into a different kind of thinking, where i accepted that the relationship was permanent, a family thing, and that no matter what we had to work things out and be happy together. that worked for a while, it stopped me from taking the easy out, made me question my habit of just going to "fuck you i'm out of here" as a way to solve upsets between us, and it gave me a peace i had not felt, perhaps it was unconditional love, but not the kind of thing i was familiar with calling love...but it felt good, and different, and right.

until it got to the point where he crossed my line, it went past what i could roll with...it came to a point where i had to say ok, i cannot accept these choices, i cannot just let this go. i had to get very depressed first, and go through all kinds of mental gymnastics, but in the end i had to admit to myself that i could not make it work. that was really hard. especially since, as i could hear my grandmothers' voices in my head saying, he didn't beat me, cheat on me, or fly into druken rages or something easy and tangible...it was the economic shit, the stupid worldly shit, things i just thougth shouldn't be important.

but in the end it was important, and i just could not relax into being unconditional with this person, it would not work for my head. maybe for some people it would be ok, but i turned out to not be one of those people. it was hard to admit. i wanted to be ok with him not working, i wanted to be ok with living off his mom, she was ok with it, why couldn't i be? well, it doesn't matter, cuz i couldn't.

my point, i guess, is that unconditional love can only exist in a healthy relationship, where things are balanced and honest...otherwise what you have is one person being unconditional and the other person taking advantage of it.

so there are conditions to unconditional love...?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:48 pm

unconditional love can only exist in a healthy relationship

hey, that's a condition aint it?

anyhow, glad you moved on

Some of us in these parts say

if you think relationships are a lot of work, you are in the wrong relationships

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

regynalonglank wrote:there was a while when i was first married where i dropped into a different kind of thinking, where i accepted that the relationship was permanent, a family thing, and that no matter what we had to work things out and be happy together. that worked for a while, it stopped me from taking the easy out, made me question my habit of just going to "fuck you i'm out of here" as a way to solve upsets between us, and it gave me a peace i had not felt, perhaps it was unconditional love, but not the kind of thing i was familiar with calling love...but it felt good, and different, and right.

until it got to the point where he crossed my line, it went past what i could roll with...it came to a point where i had to say ok, i cannot accept these choices, i cannot just let this go. i had to get very depressed first, and go through all kinds of mental gymnastics, but in the end i had to admit to myself that i could not make it work. that was really hard. especially since, as i could hear my grandmothers' voices in my head saying, he didn't beat me, cheat on me, or fly into druken rages or something easy and tangible...it was the economic shit, the stupid worldly shit, things i just thougth shouldn't be important.

but in the end it was important, and i just could not relax into being unconditional with this person, it would not work for my head. maybe for some people it would be ok, but i turned out to not be one of those people. it was hard to admit. i wanted to be ok with him not working, i wanted to be ok with living off his mom, she was ok with it, why couldn't i be? well, it doesn't matter, cuz i couldn't.

my point, i guess, is that unconditional love can only exist in a healthy relationship, where things are balanced and honest...otherwise what you have is one person being unconditional and the other person taking advantage of it.

so there are conditions to unconditional love...?

I think you gotta ask yourself at this point, "who" is experiencing or not experiencing unconditional love and I mean this in the Vedantic sense of the neti neti excercise This lady ( http://www.thework.org/home.html ) is pretty good at helping to resolve relationship stuff

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:59 pm

"who"

why is this in quotes?

cowboyangel · Post by **cowboyangel** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:08 pm

stuart wrote:
"who"
why is this in quotes?

who means what self and layer of reality you choose to identify with, your ego, small self, or your real, higher self.....like...who's really runnin the show? Me? I don't think so....then what?