Guns, Love Em or Leave Em

[ZaphodBurner]

In Oregon there's legislation right now giving the government the power to pass a law declaring an "emergency" which gives them power to ram emergency legislation through up to and including declaration of Martial Law. Here is the exact language:

http://landru.leg.state.or.us/13reg/mea ... intro.html

"Creates crime of unlawfully transferring large capacity magazine. Punishes by maximum of one year's imprisonment, $6,250
fine, or both. Declares emergency, effective on passage...

... SECTION 3. { + This 2013 Act being necessary for the immediate preservation of the public peace, health and safety, an emergency
is declared to exist, and this 2013 Act takes effect on its passage. + }"

I'm not a Troofer or Alex Jones conspiratard---just the opposite, but, this shit is crazy. This is real. Senator Burdick is using two white people getting shot in a mall as an excuse to declare a "state of emergency" even though there is black-on-black or cop-on-black violence in Portland all the time, and more people were killed on a tour bus in Oregon last month than by high-capacity magazines in the hands of law-abiding citizens.

There is no exclusion for airsoft, BB or paintball guns, but in municipalities such as Corvallis, discharging or displaying these in the city limits or city parks constitutes a "firearm" so legally, if a guy at an airsoft field throws his buddy a spare magazine, he's just legally committed a crime.

I'm alarmed about this because in college, a friend of mine was almost shot in the back by a cop for running through the park with a 12-round PMI Splatmaster and we were told that, well, if he'd have gotten shot it would have been his fault for running away with a firearm. Rural cops may let a jeep-driving johnny redneck like me get away with an assault weapon--it happened during the Clinton ban--but a minority, a black person.. you could be in serious trouble.

[Roark]

All you need to do is take Interstate 10 east. Stop anywhere in Texas. Welcome home.

Here they will laugh at your Airsoft hardware as long as you're not being a dick with it. They will look at any handgun under .45 cal as being a "pussy-plinker". And showing-up at the range with any rifle without full-auto capabilities and a 15 round clip means you'll be buying the beer.

The US hasn't gone completely crazy yet. There are a few places, heavily defended, where gun rights actually mean something. At least for now...

[ZaphodBurner]

Hey, I was just in Harlingen. BUM-FUCK Texas.

An English friend of mine and I ferried a Grumman Tiger for an apple farmer in Eugene who sold it to farmer who owns 8000 acres along the Texas border. We flew the Tiger from Eugene to Chico, Bakersfield, right over the top of Palmdale Plant 42 to Marana...saw Ike's Superconnie!...and then Fort Stinson to San Antonio and then took off at sunrise and zipped over Texas at 2000' feet to meet a Texan who made George Bush and Ross Perot sound yankee.

Fuck people who disrespect Texas.I'd go back anytime!

[Roark]

A Grumman Tiger? EPIC!!

[ZaphodBurner]

Thanks. They're my favorite. I'm glad we were going to Texas, though. Two weeks ago we ferried a Cirrus SR22 Turbo for a guy (ffs...$800,000 four-seater) from Portland to Duluth, via Denver, and it was -29C out. First time I ever listened to heavy metal on oxygen. My partner's banana's froze solid in the back seat and we had ice forming on the -inside- of the airplane even with the heater blazing. Ball-shattering cold in Duluth.

I should post a photo I took of an "angel"... a 360-degree triple rainbow with the shadow of our airplane against the clouds in the dead center of it.

We needed the angel...We came into Denver at night over the Rockies, in and out of clouds over the mountains, picking up ice on the wings, moderate turbulence throwing the airplane 40 degrees and 250 feet in any direction, like something out of Aliens. Crazy. The next morning we flew to Duluth at 240kts and about 1000feet above the ground, through four states, without ever seeing a hill. Apparently there are lots of people in the midwest but we sure didn't see many.

-29C in a Tiger would have turned us into popsicles. About a tenth of the price and just as much fun to fly, though!

[ygmir]

report from a friend:


> US Weapons:
>
> 1) The M-16 rifle:
 Thumbs down. Chronic jamming problems with the
> talcum powder like sand over
there. The sand is everywhere. Jordan says you
> feel filthy 2 minutes after
coming out of the shower. The M-4 carbine
> version is more popular because 
it's lighter and shorter, but it has
> jamming problems also. They lack the 
ability to mount the various optical
> gun sights and weapons lights on the
 pica tinny rails, but the weapon
> itself is not great in a desert environment.
They all hate the 556 mm (..223)
> round. Poor penetration on the cinder block 
structure common over there and
> even torso hits can't be reliably counted on
to put the enemy down.
>
> Fun fact: Random autopsies on dead insurgents show a high level of
> opiate 
use.
>
> 2) The M243 SAW (squad assault weapon): ..223 cal. Drum fed light
> machine gun.

 Big thumbs down. Universally considered a piece of shit.
> Chronic jamming
 problems, most of which require partial disassembly (that's
> fun in the middle 
of a firefight).

>
> 3) The M9 Beretta 9 mm:
 Mixed bag. Good gun, performs well in
> desert environment; but they all hate
 the 9 mm cartridge. The use of
> handguns for self-defense is actually fairly
common.. Same old story on the 9
> mm: Bad guys hit multiple times and still in 
the fight.
>
> 4) Mossberg 12 ga.. Military shotgun: 
Works well, used frequently
> for clearing houses to good effect.
>
> 5) The M240 Machine Gun: 7.62 NATO (.308) cal. belt fed machine gun,
> 
developed to replace the old M-60 (what a beautiful weapon that was!!)

> Thumbs up. Accurate, reliable, and the 7.62 round puts 'em down. Originally
> 
developed as a vehicle mounted weapon, more and more are being dismounted
> and
 taken into the field by infantry. The 7.62
round chews up the structure
> over there.
>
> 6) The M2 50 cal heavy machine gun:
 Thumbs way, way up. "Ma Deuce"
> is still worth her considerable weight in 
gold. The ultimate fight
> stopper - puts their dicks in the dirt every time.
 The most coveted weapon
> in-theater.
>
> 

7) The .45 pistol:
Thumbs up. Still the best pistol around out
> there. Everybody authorized to 
carry a sidearm is trying to get their hands
> on one. With few exceptions,
 can reliably be expected to put 'em down with
> a torso hit. The special ops
 guys (who are doing most of the pistol work)
> use the HK military model and
 supposedly love it. The old government model
> .45's are being re-issued en 
masse.
>
> The M-14: Thumbs up. They are being re-issued in bulk, mostly in
> a modified version to 
special ops guys. Modifications include lightweight
> Kevlar stocks and low
 power red dot or ACOG sights. Very reliable in the
> sandy environment, and
 they love the 7.62 round.
>
> 9) The Barrett ..50 cal sniper rifle: Thumbs way up. Spectacular
> range and accuracy and hits like a freight train.
 Used frequently to take
> out vehicle suicide bombers (we actually stop a lot 
of them) and barricaded
> enemy. It is definitely here to stay.

>
> 10) The M24 sniper rifle: Thumbs up. Mostly in ..308 but some in 300
> win mag. Heavily modified Remington
 700's. Great performance. Snipers have
> been used heavily to great effect.
 Rumor has it a marine sniper on his
> third tour in Anbar province has actually 
exceeded Carlos Hathcock's record
> for confirmed kills with OVER 100.
>
> 11) The new body armor:
 Thumbs up. Relatively light at approx. 6
> lbs. and can reliably be expected to 
soak up small shrapnel and even will
> stop an AK-47 round. The bad news: Hot 
as shit to wear, almost unbearable
> in the summer heat (which averages over
120 degrees). Also, the enemy now
> goes for head shots whenever possible.
 All the bullshit about the "old"
> body armor making our guys vulnerable to the 
IED's was a non-starter. The
> IED explosions are enormous and body armor 
doesn't make any difference at
> all in most cases.
>
> 

12) Night Vision and Infrared Equipment:
 Thumbs way up.
> Spectacular performance. Our guys see in the dark and own 
the night,
> period. Very little enemy action after evening prayers. More and 
more enemy
> being whacked at night during movement by our hunter-killer teams.
 We've
> all seen the videos.

>
> 13) Lights:
 Thumbs up. Most of the weapon mounted and personal
> lights are Surefire's, 
and the troops love 'em. Invaluable for night urban
> operations. Jordan
 carried a $34 Surefire G2 on a neck lanyard and loved
> it. I can’t help but 
notice that most of the good fighting weapons and
> ordnance are 50 or more
 years old!! With all our technology, it's the WWII
> and Vietnam era weapons
 that everybody wants!! The infantry fighting is
> frequent, up close and 
brutal. No quarter is given or shown.

>
> Bad guy weapons:

>
> 1) Mostly AK47's. The entire country is an arsenal. Works better in
> the 
desert than the M16 and the .308 Russian round kills reliably. PKM belt
> fed 
light machine guns are also common and effective. Luckily, the enemy
> mostly 
shoots like shit. Undisciplined "spray and pray" type fire. However,
> they 
are seeing more and more precision weapons, especially sniper rifles.
> ( Iran ,
 again)
>
> 2) The RPG: 
Probably the infantry weapon most feared by our guys.
> Simple, reliable and
 as common as dogshit. The enemy responded to our
> up-armored Humvees by 
aiming at the windshields, often at point blank
> range. Still killing a lot 
of our guys.

>
> 3) The IED:
 The biggest killer of all. Can be anything from old
> Soviet anti-armor mines 
to jury rigged artillery shells. A lot found in
> Jordan 's area were in
 abandoned cars. The enemy would take 2 or 3 155 mm
> artillery shells and wire
 them together. Most were detonated by cell phone
> and the explosions are 
enormous. You're not safe in any vehicle, even an M1
> tank. Driving is by 
far the most dangerous thing our guys do over there..
> Lately, they are much 
more sophisticated "shape charges" (Iranian)
> specifically designed to
penetrate armor.
>
> Fact: Most of the readymade IED's are supplied by Iran , 
who is also
> providing terrorists (Hezbollah types) to train the insurgents in
 their use
> and tactics. That's why the attacks have been so deadly lately.
Their
> concealment methods are ingenious, the latest being shape charges, in
> 
Styrofoam containers spray painted to look like the cinder blocks that
> litter 
all Iraqi roads. We find about 40% before they detonate, and the
> bomb 
disposal guys are unsung heroes of this war.
>
> 4) Mortars and rockets:
 Very prevalent. The soviet era 122 mm
> rockets (with an 18 km range) are 
becoming more prevalent. One of Jordan 's
> NCO's lost a leg to one. These weapons cause a lot of damage "inside the
> wire." Jordan 's base was hit 
almost daily his entire time there by mortar
> and rocket fire, often at night 
to disrupt sleep patterns and cause
> fatigue. (It did). More of a 
psychological weapon than anything else. The
> enemy mortar teams would jump
 out of vehicles, fire a few rounds, and then
> haul ass in a matter of seconds.




>
> Fun fact: 
Captured enemy have apparently marveled at the
> marksmanship of our guys and
 how hard they fight. They are apparently told
> in Jihad school that the 
Americans rely solely on technology, and can be
> easily beaten in close 
quarters combat for their lack of toughness. Let's
> just say they know better 
now.

>
> Bad guy technology: 
Simple yet effective. Most communication is by
> cell and satellite phones and 
also by email on laptops. They use handheld
> GPS units for navigation and
Google Earth for overhead views of our
> positions. Their weapons are good, 
if not fancy, and prevalent. Their
> explosives and bomb technology is TOP OF 
THE LINE. Night vision is rare.
> They are very careless with their equipment 
and the captured GPS units and
> laptops are treasure troves of Intel when 
captured.
>
> Who are the bad guys?
>
> Most of the carnage is caused by the Zarqawi Al Qaeda
 group. They
> operate mostly in Anbar province (Fallujah and Ramadi). These 
are mostly
> "foreigners", non-Iraqi Sunni Arab Jihadists from all over the
 Muslim world
> (and Europe ). Most enter Iraq through Syria (with, of course,
 the knowledge
> and complicity of the Syrian govt.), and then travel down the 
"rat line"
> which is the trail of towns along the Euphrates River that we've
 been
> hitting hard for the last few months. 


Some are virtually untrained young
> Jihadists that often end up as suicide 
bombers or in various "sacrifice
> squads."
>
> Most, however, are hardcore
 terrorists from all the usual suspects
> (Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas etc.).
 These are the guys running around
> murdering civilians en
masse and cutting heads off. 


The Chechens (many of
> whom are Caucasian) are supposedly the most ruthless 
and the best fighters.
> They have been fighting the Russians for years. In 
the Baghdad area and
> south, most of the insurgents are Iranian inspired (and 
led) Iraqi Shiites.
> The Iranian Shiia have been very adept at infiltrating 
the Iraqi local
> govt.'s, the police forces, and the Army. They have had a 
massive spy and
> agitator network there since the Iran-Iraq war in the early 
80's. Most of
> the Saddam loyalists were killed, captured, or gave up long
 ago.
>
> 


Bad Guy Tactics: When they are engaged on an infantry level they
> get their 
asses kicked every time! Brave, but stupid. Suicidal Banzai-type
> charges 
were very common earlier in the war and still occur. They will
> literally 
sacrifice 8-10 man teams in suicide squads by sending them
> screaming and
 firing AK's and RPG's directly at our bases just to probe the
> defenses. They get mowed down like grass every time (see the M2 and M240
> above). 
Jordan's base was hit like this often. 


When engaged, they have a
> tendency to flee to the same building, probably for
 what they think will be
> a glorious last stand. Instead, we call in air and 
that's the end of that,
> more often than not. These hole-ups are referred to 
as Alpha Whiskey
> Romeo's (Allah's Waiting Room). We have the laser guided 
ground-air thing
> down to a science.
>
> The fast movers, mostly Marine F-18's,
 are taking an ever
> increasing toll on the enemy. When caught out in the
 open, the helicopter
> gunships, and AC-130 Spectre Gunships cut them to ribbons 
with cannon and
> rocket fire, especially at night. Interestingly, artillery 
is hardly used
> at all.
>
> 


Fun facts:
The enemy death toll is supposedly between 45-50
> thousand. That is why we're 
seeing less and less infantry attacks and more
> IED, suicide bomber shit. The 
new strategy is just simple: attrition.
> 



The insurgent tactic most frustrating is their use of civilian
> non-combatants 
as cover. They know we do all we can to avoid civilian
> casualties and 
therefore schools, hospitals, and especially Mosques, are
> locations where they 
meet, stage for attacks, cache weapons, and ammo and
> flee to when engaged.
 They have absolutely no regard whatsoever for
> inflicting civilian casualties.
 They will terrorize locals and murder
> without hesitation anyone believed to 
be sympathetic to the Americans or
> the new Iraqi govt. Kidnapping of family 
members, especially children, is
> common to influence people they are trying 
to influence but can't reach,
> such as local govt. officials, clerics, tribal 
leaders, etc.
>
> 

The first thing our guys are told is "don't get captured." They
> know that if 
captured they will be tortured and beheaded on the internet.
> Zarqawi openly 
offers bounties for anyone who brings him a live American
> serviceman. This
 motivates the criminal element who otherwise don't give a
> shit about the war.
 A lot of the beheading victims were actually kidnapped
> by common criminals
 and sold to Zarqawi. As such, for our guys, every fight
> is to the death.. Surrender is not an option. The Iraqi's are a mixed bag.
> Some fight well; others aren't worth a
 damn. Most do okay with American
> support. Finding leaders is hard, but they 
are getting better. 


It is
> widely viewed that Zarqawi's use of suicide bombers, en masse, against 
the
> civilian population was a serious tactical mistake. Many Iraqi's were

> galvanized and the caliber of recruits in the Army and the police forces
> went 
right up, along with their motivation. It also led to an exponential

> increase in good intel because the Iraqi's are sick of the insurgent
> attacks
 against civilians. The Kurds are solidly pro-American and fearless
> fighters.


>
> Morale:
 According to Jordan , morale among our guys is very high.
> They not only
 believe that they are winning, but that they are winning
> decisively. They 
are stunned and dismayed by what they see in the American
> press, whom they
 almost universally view as against them. The embedded
> reporters are despised
 and distrusted. They are inflicting casualties at a
> rate of 20-1 and then 
see shit like "Are we losing in Iraq ?" on TV and the
> print media.. 



For the most part, they are satisfied with their equipment,
> food, and
leadership.
>
> Bottom line though, and they all say this, is that there are not

> enough guys there to drive the final stake through the heart of the
> 
insurgency, primarily because there aren't enough troops in-theater to shut
> 
down the borders with Iran and Syria . The Iranians and the Syrians just

> can't stand the thought of Iraq being an American ally (with, of
> course,
permanent US bases there).
>
> Anyway, that's it, hope you found it interesting.
>

[ZaphodBurner]

Indeed, I found that interesting and it matches what I've heard from relatives and friends. This is what they have waiting for them when they come home:

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/decorated ... magazines/

A US Army veteran who is a private citizen in New York was arrested this month for having AR-15 magazines in his trunk, which means they've taken his freedom, his property, his right to vote and his 2nd Amendment. Meanwhile, millions of illegals are about to get amnesty (I don't have a dog in that fight, but still) and the federal government has ordered SEVEN THOUSAND M16/M4 type "selective fire"--which means capable of fully-automatic or burst mode--as "Personal Defense Weapons."

https://www.fbo.gov/?s=opportunity&mode ... e&_cview=0

Personal Defense Weapons Solicitation
Solicitation Number: HSCEMS-12-R-00011
Agency: Department of Homeland Security
Office: Immigration & Customs Enforcement
Location: ICE-OAQ-MS

Synopsis:
Added: Jun 07, 2012 11:47 am
This announcement is being placed in accordance with the Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) paragraph 5.207.  It is a combined synopsis/solicitation for commercial items.  5.56x45mm NATO, select-fire firearm suitable for personal defense.  This announcement constitutes the only solicitation and proposals are being requested.  See attachments for complete details.



Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin'...

[gyre]

Flying planes around?
Zaphod, you poor, poor bastard.

Good info, Yggie.
The armor piercing shape charges are now being handmade.
This trickle down tech is why you can't ban things.
Anyone that can shape metal can make one that works.

[ygmir]

it is interesting how much ammo, most suited to civilian, and personal "defense" uses. millions and millions of rounds, and for all sorts of departments, some you'd not expect to even be armed, let alone stocking up on ammo, way more than seems necessary. and "high damage" ammo, hollow points, fragmentaion bullets......stuff I thought police and armed forces are not supposed to use?

[TomServo]

Soft point in 7.62x39 was almost impossible to find in stores. That's all they allowed at the range in Concord, Ca. Something about bullets ricocheting into Bay Point...

[ygmir]

yeah, makes sense. but FMJ is the only approved projectile by the Geneva Convention, IIRC. It would follow, our internal "military overloards" would adhere.

[TomServo]

Probably because it goes in small and goes out small...unlike a soft or hollow point. Wait!!! It's NOT guns that kill people!!

[TomServo]

[media]

[Sail Man]

My my, how this thread is turning into the survival thread, but without css's financial slant
Zaphod, read about the army guy in another forum. As I understand it the new laws in NY governing the mags are not even in effect. It is rather interesting that they "just happened to pull over" this guy and found the mags
Short of a mid caliber bolt action, say .243 or .270, we are pretty good to go in the weapons dept. Was looking at the Remington R-25, pricey, and havent found one available yet though. Pisser is, .243 is all over my local shelves while 5.56 and .308 are not. Stocking more of the .40 and shotties for now.

[cowboyangel]

Interesting post from the combat vet Ygmir....but wouldn't you defend your country if it were being invaded?

There's hope for the US with these guys....the Oath Keepers. Check it out

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

[cowboyangel]

[media]

This is a great video and great tribute to the guys. Time to get out of that shit hole. Sebastian Junger has a lot more to say about that conflict in the book version of the story which is a great read.

[TomServo]

My first girlfriend. Served several tours in Iraq.



she gave me permission to post this

[ygmir]

Interesting post from the combat vet Ygmir....but wouldn't you defend your country if it were being invaded?

There's hope for the US with these guys....the Oath Keepers. Check it out

http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

of course I would CA..........and, I bet someone, would tease me, too.

[cowboyangel]

My first girlfriend. Served several tours in Iraq.



she gave me permission to post this

This is the kind of girlfriend/wife that will keep guys in line.

[Foxfur]

I met SGT Sweetpea on a US Army firing range 19 years ago, sigh...

[Foxfur]

In Oregon there's legislation right now giving the government the power to pass a law declaring an "emergency" which gives them power to ram emergency legislation through up to and including declaration of Martial Law. Here is the exact language:

http://landru.leg.state.or.us/13reg/mea ... intro.html

"Creates crime of unlawfully transferring large capacity magazine. Punishes by maximum of one year's imprisonment, $6,250
fine, or both. Declares emergency, effective on passage...

Senator Burdick is using two white people getting shot in a mall as an excuse to declare a "state of emergency"...

Sen Burdick has been a perennial thorn in our sides for many years. Her kneejerk reactions feed the stereotype that all democrats support over the top gun control...

[gyre]

Quote supplied by rangemaster -

"The current gun/ammo panic buying frenzy is unprecedented. It has been stronger and lasted longer than any previous buying frenzy. Here is an update from industry leader Mark LaRue:

>
> Status of gun industry
>
> Attention F.B. fans: to follow will be several IMPORTANT Info updates about the status of the gun industry currently, followed by an INVENTORY UPDATE: We traveled to Texas for Industry meetings concerning the shortages, here's what we were told.
>
> Smith & Wesson-is running at Full capacity making 300+ guns/day-mainly M&P pistols. They are unable to produce any more guns to help with the shortages.
>
> RUGER: Plans to increase from 75% to 100% in the next 90 days.
>
> FNH: Moving from 50% production to 75% by Feb 1st and 100% by March 1. Remington-Maxed out!
>
> Armalite: Maxed out.
>
> DPMS: Can't get enough parts to produce any more product.
>
> COLT: Production runs increasing weekly...bottle necked by Bolt carrier's.
>
> LWRC:Making only black guns, running at full capacity...can't get enough gun quality steel to make barrels.
>
> Springfield Armory: Only company who can meet demand but are running 30-45 days behind.
>
> AMMO: Every caliber is now Allocated! We are looking at a nation wide shortage of all calibers over the next 9 months. All plants are producing as much ammo as possible w/ of 1 BILLION rounds produced weekly. Most is military followed by L.E. and civilians are third in line.
>
> MAGPUL is behind 1 MILLION mags, do not expect any large quantities of magpul anytime soon.
>
> RELOADERS... ALL Remington, Winchester, CCI & Federal primers are going to ammo FIRST. There are no extra's for reloading purposes... it could be 6-9 months before things get caught up. Sorry for the bleak news, but now we know what to expect in the coming months. Stay tuned, we'll keep you posted...
>
> Related commentary from Bob Owens :
> They didn't know when they'd be getting anything back in stock, from magazines to rifles to pistols. Manufacturers were running full-bore, but couldn't come close to keeping up with market demand. It wasn't just the AR-15s, the AK-pattern rifles, the M1As, and the FALs that were sold out. It really hit me when I realized that the World War-era M1 Garands, M1 carbines, and Enfield .303s were gone, along with every last shell. Ubiquitous Mosin-Nagants—of which every gun store always seems to have 10-20—were gone. So was their ammo. Only a dust free space marked their passing. I've never seen anything like it.
>
> Every weapon of military utility designed within the past 100+ years was gone. This isn't a society stocking up on certain guns because they fear they may be banned. This is a society preparing for war.
>
> Barack Obama, Dianne Feinstein and the rest of the Statists have done more to promote gun ownership than the NRA ever did. Well done, Democrats!"

[TomServo]

Jethro Tull strikes back at Metallica..again

[Foxfur]

Jethro Tull strikes back at Metallica..again

Reminds me of the 'pistol' I kludged together for a $100 buyback program in Portland 10 years ago:
A 6 inch piece of galvanized pipe with an end cap and nail and a piece of spring steel for the firing mechanism. Drilled a hole in a short chunk of 2x2 lumber for a handgrip.
Got my $100 gift certificate to a sporting goods store.
I went and bought ammo with it

[ygmir]

Jethro Tull strikes back at Metallica..again

Reminds me of the 'pistol' I kludged together for a $100 buyback program in Portland 10 years ago:
A 6 inch piece of galvanized pipe with an end cap and nail and a piece of spring steel for the firing mechanism. Drilled a hole in a short chunk of 2x2 lumber for a handgrip.
Got my $100 gift certificate to a sporting goods store.
I went and bought ammo with it

someone fellate this man!!!

[Foxfur]

Jethro Tull strikes back at Metallica..again

Reminds me of the 'pistol' I kludged together for a $100 buyback program in Portland 10 years ago:
A 6 inch piece of galvanized pipe with an end cap and nail and a piece of spring steel for the firing mechanism. Drilled a hole in a short chunk of 2x2 lumber for a handgrip.
Got my $100 gift certificate to a sporting goods store.
I went and bought ammo with it

someone fellate this man!!!

Only if you need a toothpick.

[ygmir]

Jethro Tull strikes back at Metallica..again

Reminds me of the 'pistol' I kludged together for a $100 buyback program in Portland 10 years ago:
A 6 inch piece of galvanized pipe with an end cap and nail and a piece of spring steel for the firing mechanism. Drilled a hole in a short chunk of 2x2 lumber for a handgrip.
Got my $100 gift certificate to a sporting goods store.
I went and bought ammo with it

someone fellate this man!!!

Only if you need a toothprick.

fixed it.

[gyre]

How much scrap metal can you use and still build an accurate rifle?

Quite a bit, apparently.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulle ... rning.html

[gyre]

Steyr 1909


Praga Model 21



Chylewski - Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) / Neuhausen


Aktiengesellschaft LIGNOSE, Berlin, Abteilung Suhl, Modell 2A


Fritz MANN Wekzeug- und Waffenfabrik / Suhl 6.35


Mauser WTP 2


J.P. SAUER & SOHN in Suhl WTM 24


August SCHÜLER / Suhl Reform


Waffenfabrik Carl WALTHER / Zella Mehlis/Thüringen Modell One


Le Gaulois Manufacture Francaise d'Armes et Cycles de Saint-Etienne (MANUFRANCE)(MFAC)



Modell 1912 WEBLEY & SCOTT Limited / London & Birmingham


Frommer Baby FEGYVERGYAR Budapest


PSM "BAIKAL" Izhevsky Mekhanichesky Zavod / Izhevsk

[Eric]

Interesting post from the combat vet Ygmir....but wouldn't you defend your country if it were being invaded?

holy crap CA, we agree on something. Even my wife (Iraq vet) says the "insurgents" would be called "patriots" if they were on our side (or payroll)

There's hope for the US with these guys....the Oath Keepers. Check it out

Oh, wait. Okay, now we're back to normal...