How to spot undercover cops?

[Eric]

its actually a little different at BM. my understanding is what might normally be a lesser misdemeanor charge could and will be a felony charge at BM.

but yeah, just dont be stupid! and dont speed either! or lie! or eat bad food!

See, your attitude is why people get arrested. You try to find reasons that it's someone elses fault, and you act like the most basic rule ("Don't be stupid") is some sort of lazy excuse for getting out of helping people avoid getting busted. It's not - it's also nobodies job on here to help people not get busted. We give you the basic facts (the place is crawling with cops, and, regardless of people who think they can be easily spotted or don't spend time trying to get a bust, the undercovers are smarter than you will ever be), and we tell you that if you insist on breaking State & Federal laws, don't do something that will get you fined or imprisoned. We just say it in three words: Dont. Be. Stupid.

As for getting a felony instead of a misdemeanor, guess what? If a cop in the city is trying to raise money off your ass (which is what the undercovers at Bman are interested in), and they can find a way to raise your charge so that it becomes a felony & they get to charge a bigger fine (and "prove" that cops are needed), they'll do it. If a crime is a misdemeanor on the books, it has to be charged as misdemeanor. However, there are many ways to finagle something into a felony - separate your illegal stuff into little bags, suddenly you have "intent to distribute". And if you stupidly invite one to partake, and they see your little baggies, you're going to get fined with a felony, regardless of how hot they were, how friendly they were, how "special" your bond was, or how well you thought they knew them.

A good undercover cop is smarter than you, and they're out there in droves. Really. Regardless of what some people keep posting in this thread.

[Canoe]

Everyone knows a baseball cap and antique 'phone' are the universal hallmarks of narcery.

I thought it was white gym socks with black shoes.

A friend in IT with a long ponytail down his back and a beard, had to wear a suit one day. Stopping at a bar after work, where heavy music was played, he got some odd looks with the suit when he sat at the bar. He got tired of it so snapped out something along the lines of "What? You've never seen an off-duty narc before?"
He said he had a lot of space after that.

[gyre]

At the burning man, someone dressed like this, may be a cop.


"Suspect is hatless - repeat - hatless."

[usurpedus]

i inferred the intent of this thread was to help people avoid crimes that could get them in trouble with the law. you may have a different interpretation.

based on what i felt this intention was i tried to offer some experience that could help articulate a scenario that led to an arrest. i tried to be a little bit more specific than "dont be stupid."

regardless of what part of that we disagree on, im still entitled to my opinion, and if i want to do my part to help someone not commit a crime, i think im entitled. youre entitled to yours as well but just because we disagree doesnt mean we need to diminish the other's point of view. im not looking for an argument like you seem to be hell-bent on.

"dont be stupid" is a great motto, unfortunately it can mean different things to different people, in different scenarios, especially ones they've never been.

[gyre]

Can you go into detail about the total amount of time these undercovers spent?
Taking days on a small bust would be highly unusual.

[Eric]

im still entitled to my opinion, and if i want to do my part to help someone not commit a crime, i think im entitled.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion, however, your intent didn't appear to be "to help someone not commit a crime", it seemed to be to warn them to be careful while committing a crime (use of illegal substances is illegal, therefore... wait for it... a crime!).

Re-read your post - you were upset that we didn't tell people explicitly enough that they could be punished for breaking the law, and how far undercovers would go to get them. If you want them not to commit a crime, tell them not to do anything blatantly illegal at Burning Man - you know, Don't Be... ah, fukkit.

[edit: cleared up my use of the word "intent"]

[BBadger]

The "don't be stupid" mantra is usually accompanied with two pieces of advice to prevent you from being "stupid": be discreet, and only trust people you absolutely know. A third piece of advice that is making inroads is: don't talk to cops.

I think the scenarios-leading-to-an-arrest are good and useful examples for demonstrating the extent to which people need to follow the above advice -- to stay vigilant. Examples such as someone getting lured into smoking a joint with some narcs not only illustrates the level of misplaced trust that can be built before an arrest, but also a lapse in judgement with respect to being discreet (narcs have noses too).

Now as for empathizing/not-empathizing with the victim/stupid person... that's really a side issue here and doesn't help anyone. People will frame the story in different manners, and don't be surprised if someone doesn't share your particular emphasis.

[Simon of the Playa]

Bad Lieutenant



if i was an undercover dick i would totally take bribes...

"Camp Bad Cop......we went native years ago"...

[maladroit]

I take the advice in this thread not so much as helping me get away with something illegal, but knowing (or suspecting) someone is undercover can make you less likely to do something stupid. Like, for instance, joking about illegal things. Accepting little gifts without making sure what they are. Picking up and pocketing a piece of MOOP that turns out to be a joint. Or do anything that would look suspicious (like palming someone a set of earplugs). Maybe they'd find out nothing was amiss, but you still had to experience getting dragged away for a couple hours, or getting your camp torn apart.

[Eric]

I take the advice in this thread not so much as helping me get away with something illegal, but knowing (or suspecting) someone is undercover can make you less likely to do something stupid.

Honestly, if you don't know them personally - off playa - or haven't been introduced to them by someone you know off-playa who knows them personally off-playa, assume they're undercover. People run into problems because they think they can figure out who the undercover is, or think they'll be obvious (or won't spend time if they think they can get a nice, high-fine bust). They've been going longer than you, they have better costumes, you will not spot them most of the time. Doesn't mean you run around paranoid, it just means you don't offer anyone anything that could get you arrested unless they come with multiple layers of off-playa background checks. Same reason you card anyone young looking when you're serving at a bar.

Let me say it plainly:

If you don't know them off-playa, and neither do any of your friends, assume they're undercover & use your intelligence accordingly.

Again, you can have a great time with them, just don't presume to share & think you're safe.




Don't Be Stupid

[usurpedus]

[quote="gyre"]Can you go into detail about the total amount of time these undercovers spent?
Taking days on a small bust would be highly unusual.[/quote]

in one of the cases it was approximately 5 days

[Humin]

There ought to be a place in America where freedom-loving, responsible, tax-paying citizens and veterans can go out and do to themselves whatever they wish without Nanny Statist liberal cops sniffing our assholes with dogs and undercover agents.

Damn liberal cops with their ultra-conservative racist values.

Since LEO types are allegedly reading this, this is for you: Hi, and thanks for keeping us safe and for removing the real-deal actual assholes.

Eww

Having said that, I served in the Marine Corps

Eww

I'm not a bad guy.

You JUST said you were a marine, your story is not adding up.

You're a commie fucking spy, is what you are. Liberal motherfuckers like you are exactly the ones the government can count on if they decide to repeal the 2nd Amendment because you love your job so much you'll fuck with the rights of citizens just to feel good about yourself. You'd probably not kill your relatives for owning guns but you'd kill your neighbors and give your relatives the guns. Your legitimate peers--cops who deal with actual crimes--probably hate you as much as freedom-loving Americans do. Furthermore, I'm violently allergic to dogs so if you ask to search my vehicle with one--I'll be living in it for the week--I'm going to have to say no. I'm posting it here to use it in court against you if I tell you no and you fuck with me because of it.

Every cop I've ever met has been conservative. I spent time as a guard in twin towers, where most of the guards planned to become cops, and you can rest easy knowing that rascists and thugs are protecting your neighborhood by shooting kids. And good luck with that strong, binding legal defense.

Gross. Gross post, you grossed me out. Aggresive, extremist, and ignorant.

Op has a valid question, if he plans on gifting drugs. If I was going to gift anything illegal, which I wouldn't, it would only be to people that I approached, not people that approach me. I've been to plenty of raves, this tactic tends to work. Other information I have gathered about detecting undercovers (which may not be applicable to BM), that might be able to give OP a profile.
They can be young, as young as 18, but the young ones will stutter and/or slip up on their stories or personnas.
They can only hold a shallow conversation about the music, like names of performers or go-to lines like "I really like Acid-House". When you talk about the MUSIC, like "wow that synth is really coiled" they will just grin and nod. Obviosly this applies less and less as the age goes up.
Undercovers have, or develop, the Gift of Gab.
It is legal for undercover police to take drugs in the line of duty. http://legalworkshop.org/2010/02/24/bre ... n-in-crime
It is LEGAL for an undercover officer to DIRECTLY ask you for drugs, by name, and it is not considered entrapment, as you will be arrested for possesion. If they tried to charge you with intent to sell, you MIGHT have an entrapment case, but honestly not really. U.S. entrapment law is not understood well by the general public. An example of what would pass for entrapment would be a scenario like this: undercover police provide guns to individual A. Undercover police tell individual A they have someone who will buy the guns. Undercover police buy guns from individual A, then arrest individual A.

Also, I couldn't IMAGINE anyone would want drugs and not bring their own supply. If they did, it's feels pretty moochy to me, and I wouldn't really want to share with them. And with all the DOx and MDPV floating around these days it would be a really stupid idea to take a random tab or pill. Even mushrooms can be dangerous; guys will eat a quad of Azurscens thinking they're getting Cubensis, and that's not a good night. So if someone asks you for drugs, that means either they're a cop, or a tripper who didn't bring drugs to burning man and is willing to trust a random stranger to put something in their body and is also not concerned that said random random person is leo. What's more likely?


Finally, to everyone talking about baiting cops, don't.

REPRESENTING A LEGAL SUBSTANCE AS AN ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE IS ILLEGAL. This usually comes up with ravers selling aspirin as e, thinking they are immune from prosecution. If the cop thinks you were trying to bait him, then he'll say you were representing something as an illegal substance, so your fishing pole is definitely out. The other ideas, of handing out suspicious looking gifts, that's fine and is honestly a considerate way for sober folk to help out the trippers. Just DO NOT let the cops know what your intentions were, or you may be charged.

[illy dilly]

Snifff... Snifff...
Does anyone else smell that? It really stinks.
Sorta like sweaty feet, old cheese, and wet dog.
Sniff...
I can't exactly put my finger or nose on it.... Sniff...

O wait, I know what it is!!!!
Its a damned smelly Troll.

[Ano]

If you want to spot an undercover cop, pull out something illegal and wave it around. The folks who come up and detain/arrest you are the undercover cops. Possibly not undercover as well, if they are wearing a cop uniform.

If you are having a difficult time locating undercover cops, I recommend walking down the street smoking a Marijuana cigarette or eating some mushrooms or something. Also, advertise the fact that you have drugs and make sure everyone in a thirty-foot radius, at all times, understands and knows how "fucking high bro whoa" you are.

Using these methods, you will be able to locate undercover cops. I hope this helped!

[Dr. Dust]

If you want to spot an undercover cop, pull out something illegal and wave it around.

Well spoken.

[some seeing eye]

We have been over, and over, and over, and over this. Here is another reason: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opini ... -oath.html. Stupidity loses every time.

[AdamOfTheRedEarth]

OP here. I was a little surprised to see this pop back up in the "View your posts" section. I took a pretty good razzing when I first posted this last year, but I had never been to Burning Man before and believe it or not I actually learned a lot from the replies I got in this thread. My original intention when I made this had nothing to do with me wanting to hand out drugs or anything, I was simply incredulous at the idea of there being tons of undercover cops running around hoping to bust someone smoking a joint. I still think it's quite asinine especially as there are now two states legalizing weed and bills in congress pushing to legalize. Anyways that's not what this thread is for. Basically, I'd never heard of a concert or festival that was known to have a highly sophisticated, well staffed corps of undercovers. Any other event I've been to, you get caught smokin' a joint the worst that happens is they kick you out of the event. I suppose the whole "federal land" thing is the key.

My experience last year at Burning Man was incredible and life altering, and fortunately I had no issues with any police whatsoever. I think I said it in an earlier post but the only time I even think there may have been an undercover cop was when a guy wandered into our camp mid-day and asked for some reefer. I told him "no, sorry" and offered him a cocktail but he refused so that seemed to be a clue, but then again maybe he was too obvious to be an undercover? Either way, I didn't have any weed and wouldn't at any other time because I'm a non-partaker even though it's legal in my state now it's just not for me. He had no interest in hanging out after I told him no and left right then. That was the last I saw of him. The next day a girl told me to look out for a mutant vehicle bus called "Americana" or something like that. Rumor was that bus was run by the cops and they'd ride people around and wait for them to do something illegal on the bus then arrest them.

[BurnerBunny]

This thread has inspired me to make some piggy themed stuff to bring with me to BM. I was reading that some bars now require id, maybe i'll gift out some offensive pig themed id card holders you can wear around your neck.

want to get away from society for 1 week, have to deal with f'ing pigs in the middle of the desert

[Eric]

want to get away from society for 1 week, have to deal with f'ing pigs in the middle of the desert

Want to get away from society for a week? Don't go to a city of 60,000 people, regardless of where it's placed. Otherwise deal with reality, man.

Oh - they're police, or LEO's. "Pigs", really? What are you, some sort of wanna-be hippie reject thinking you're living in 1969?

[ygmir]

This thread has inspired me to make some piggy themed stuff to bring with me to BM. I was reading that some bars now require id, maybe i'll gift out some offensive pig themed id card holders you can wear around your neck.

want to get away from society for 1 week, have to deal with f'ing pigs in the middle of the desert

how about you gift your cards in a different playa?
People like you sound to be, piss off the LEO, and then we all pay a price.
stick/hornets nest.......anyone near gets stung.

[canexplain]

That's ridiculous, everybody knows cops don't have rhythm.

Oh yea....................

[Savannah]

That's ridiculous, everybody knows cops don't have rhythm.

Oh yea....................

[media]

[Simon of the Playa]

This thread has inspired me to make some piggy themed stuff to bring with me to BM. I was reading that some bars now require id, maybe i'll gift out some offensive pig themed id card holders you can wear around your neck.

want to get away from society for 1 week, have to deal with f'ing pigs in the middle of the desert

it's not the undercover cops you have to worry about...

[media]

[Roark]

I'm still laughing at the mental image of putting a donut on the end of a fishing line and casting it out into the foot traffic. Anything that chased it... well.... yeah.

[Savannah]

I'm still laughing at the mental image of putting a donut on the end of a fishing line and casting it out into the foot traffic. Anything that chased it... well.... yeah.

It would certainly be a good way to catch an undercover mod . . . provided the donut is on a saucer.

[Roark]

I'm still laughing at the mental image of putting a donut on the end of a fishing line and casting it out into the foot traffic. Anything that chased it... well.... yeah.

It would certainly be a good way to catch an undercover mod . . . provided the donut is on a saucer.

Heheheh. Or maybe Ygmir, if it was smouldering...

[maladroit]

On a doily, on a saucer, dusted with powdered sugar and a decorative whirl of melted fair-trade chocolate and garnished with three fresh raspberries.

[ygmir]

I'm still laughing at the mental image of putting a donut on the end of a fishing line and casting it out into the foot traffic. Anything that chased it... well.... yeah.

It would certainly be a good way to catch an undercover mod . . . provided the donut is on a saucer.

Heheheh. Or maybe Ygmir, if it was smouldering...

there's this game we played once, I layed on my back, and "they" did a doughnut "ring toss".........winner got the snack.

[gaminwench]

did you have a fluffer?(yes, that kind)

[ygmir]

did you have a fluffer?(yes, that kind)

A gentleman would never tell.



well, more like a "holder straight upper" being horizontal and all........