Sexual Violence

angelface · Post by **angelface** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 4:58 pm

probably not, but some biting is always nice

herrdirektor · Post by **herrdirektor** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:07 pm

My fiance and I had an unsettling experience at the Temple of the Space Virgins on Wednesday. We were looking for a comfortable place to, well, to get comfortable in

and we wandered into the very lovely and relatively (for the playa) comfortable Temple dome. It was about 9 PM and there was absolutely nobody in the dome except a couple of young woman (either bi or gay) who were lying on one of the mattresses (real mattresses, people!)

We took a place on the opposite side of the dome on one mattress and started to make out, and I guess the female couple relaxed a bit and they started doing the same. We didn't really look up immediately but in probably 10-15 minutes, there seemed to be a rapid increase in the number of people wandering through the dome (there does seem to be some kind of high energy communications link that quickly spreads the word from inside a dome to the entire playa when one or more people start to get it on - I noticed that last year too, when the "orgy bus" wandered by HOTD, but that's another story

)

Anyway, several other couples joined us in various stages of making out/love and soon it was a relatively interesting non-orgy orgy (i.e., there was no interaction between the various couples, but it was pretty hot just the same

)

There were a lot of looky lou's but being relatively experienced at various and sundy sexually active parties in my life, this didn't particularly faze me (or my fiance) at all. Let 'em look, I figure (and I'm a bit of an exhibitionist anyway).

However, one particularly disconcerting guy, dressed kind of like a green bug (yes, he had antennae

) kept going over the the young ladies (who by now were in a particularly energetic 69) and putting his hands where they weren't wanted. I assume neither of these ladies was that experienced with public sex, so for a while they seemed to tolerate it, but ultimately one of them told the guy to leave them alone. Which he did for about 5 minutes, then he came back. And she told him no again, and he wandered away again, and then came back once more, whereupon she said "Get the fuck away from us, PLEASE!"

He once again did so, but about five minutes later (my fiance and I were pretty much done by this time and getting ready to leave the Temple) he returned, this time carrying a small digital camera which he wandered around with obvioulsy snapping pics of the various people who were entwined. I was so totally pissed that I got up and walked over to him and made sure he understood to get lost (I am somewhat larger than the two ladies he had been bothering, in fact probably a bit larger than both of them put together

Even then, as I was leaving, I heard my lady raise her voice, again to him, because he had just tried to feel her up.

Jeesh, although we had a terrific enjoyable experience, there had to be somebody to totally fuck it up (and not in a nice way, either).

Fortunately, except for this one situation, we had a completely terrific experience in my second/her first BM and we WILL be back. Given 30,000, I am surprised that we only encountered one jerk, the odds in normal society are much higher than that.

I don't know what it takes to get people to understand that NO (a simple no, a vehement no, a violent no), means NO and anyone with half a brain (hey, even half a brain of a cow, PJ) should understand that.

Sigh.

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:34 pm

>>drink alcohol out of a sippy cup, the kind kids use, and I think it would be hard to slip me something without my noticing.. also keeps the dust out<<

Oh, clever! Angelface, you might consider posting that over in tips & tricks to clue others.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:40 pm

JP / Chimp wrote:Date rape is a massive problem that is growing in our society, peodohilia (spelling?) too is rampant - I mean yeah we can beat these MFs into a pulp and so on but at some point we have to try to understand why shit like this goes down - what is it about our everday society that facilitates acts of extreme perversion or sociopathic behaviour? If Burners can shed some light on this then hey, maybe we can take the knowledge we attain back to the wider world - I am not sure of my point here but I think this is really the most poignant thread I have seen on the Eplaya and perhaps we can genuinely achieve some kind of consensus through this discussion.

Actually the acts of rape, and other unwanted sexual assaults, are most likely decreasing. The reporting of these crimes is increasing. It seems that good sexual education, including the social aspects, is the best protection for would be victums.

Women used to be treated as chattel in all societies. As it changes, women now have more say over what happens to their bodies. Young women or girls were given to a man not of her chosing. Women were then expected to submit to this man whenever HE wanted it. In some societies women were/are stoned to death for committing adultry. Being raped is considered adultery. Servants and slaves have been subject to repeated rape over the centuries. The spoils of war used to be the women of a village or community. Rape was all part of the fun and still is in many cases.

Sorry if this sounds somewhat pedantic. I'm sure that you are well aware of history. Just putting it all together with today's current "trends."

Chimp · Post by **Chimp** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:25 am

I hear you Stormy and you don't sound pedantic at all

Still, I think the knockout drugged then raped and don't remember it incidents are on the climb for sure, for both men and women. Also in the third world there are places not a million miles from the darker moments in history you describe so I am not convinced of that 'decreasing' argument really, certainly not on a global scale. Still, I am finding this all a bit depressing now and am admittedly rather prone to idealist outbursts of naive "maybe we can come to a consensus and change all this" hippiedom. It would be fucking nice though.

"Flesh coloured Christ's that glow in the dark, its easy to see without Looking too far that not much is really sacred"

B Dylan

KristieEB · Post by **KristieEB** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:54 am

mmmm! need me a sippy cup!

diggum · Post by **diggum** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:13 am

when wondering what to do with a camera-weilding person who does not understand boundaries, take a cue from Sonny Corleone.

Of course, after throwing his camera to the ground, would tossing a few bucks on top of it be considered commerce by the BMORG? damn tricky shit...

Zane5100 · Post by **Zane5100** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:46 am

diggum wrote:when wondering what to do with a camera-weilding person who does not understand boundaries, take a cue from Sonny Corleone.

Of course, after throwing his camera to the ground, would tossing a few bucks on top of it be considered commerce by the BMORG? damn tricky shit...

Just be ready for said photographer to retaliate/defend themselves.

It could get ugly.

Not to mention bloody.

BurningGirl · Post by **BurningGirl** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 1:21 pm

OK...Lot's of posts on this hot topic...I could only get to about half of them. My observance is this: Victimizers look for Victims (you KNOW these are out there)...Predators look for easy/weak prey. Some weaknesses are within our control, some are not. Being almost 6ft tall, sober, aware and feisty has kept many a predator from trying to scale this tree...Yet I know it does not make me immune. I also feel that it is imperative for us to watch out for each other and NOT just mind our own business if something doesn't look right. I am the first to plunge my hand into the moshpit in order to hoist a fallen comrade and have many times checked up on girls I didn't know to make sure the situation they were in was OK with them. Yes, there's only so much you can do...but you should do everything you can.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:39 pm

BurningGirl wrote:OK...Lot's of posts on this hot topic...I could only get to about half of them. My observance is this: Victimizers look for Victims (you KNOW these are out there)...Predators look for easy/weak prey. Some weaknesses are within our control, some are not. Being almost 6ft tall, sober, aware and feisty has kept many a predator from trying to scale this tree...Yet I know it does not make me immune. I also feel that it is imperative for us to watch out for each other and NOT just mind our own business if something doesn't look right. I am the first to plunge my hand into the moshpit in order to hoist a fallen comrade and have many times checked up on girls I didn't know to make sure the situation they were in was OK with them. Yes, there's only so much you can do...but you should do everything you can.

Rawk on!

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 9:46 pm

my friend rachel ( an old time burner ) and i were sunbathing topless at a public beach back in college. this 10 year old kid has a camera and snaps some pics of us. furious, we follow him to the parking lot where he's hiding behind his aunt. rachel demands the camera. the kid mumbles something and the aunt sez, he got pther pictures on the film. rachel sez she doesn't give a shit and give her the camera now. he does, she opens it, exposes the entire roll of film and hands back the camera.

it would have been great to hold the asshole down, delete all his digipics and all leave arm in arm laughing.

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Fri Sep 12, 2003 10:26 pm

i tried to keep this thought down in another thread -

its just that after seeing so many photos of others peoples' art -
its like shooting fish in a barrel -

you actually have to be a good photographer to add something to the moment - to see something that isn't obvious.

in general - taking pictures at burningman & calling it art instead of documention is really taking way too much credit.

III · Post by **III** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 9:29 am

>its like shooting fish in a barrel

having done both, i'd say that shooting fish in a barrel requires quite a bit more skill.

stu · Post by **stu** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:31 pm

One of my favourite playa moments involved a cameraman.

I was looking for Badger at the ranger station when a call for assistance at centre camp came over the radio of another ranger there. As the call came in, a cameraman came out the back of the cafe, and he was running for his life. I mean, he was legging it as fast as he could as there was a large, very enraged person chasing him and yelling: "I told that fucker to leave me alone!" (or words to that effect) The only thing that saved the cameraman was that his pursuer was so enraged he kept stumbling as he tried to run too fast.

What made it a great playa moment was the stream of rangers chasing after those two, I guess so they could mediate the interaction.

As for the topic, no means no, and drugging someone is an assult.

PJ · Post by PJ » Sat Sep 13, 2003 12:36 pm

III wrote:shooting fish in a barrel requires quite a bit more skill.

Not with this:

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 1:05 pm

PJ wrote:Not with this

Put an HE round in that M203 and you can get all the fish at once, and the barrel with 'em!

Lord Munkus · Post by **Lord Munkus** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 12:33 am

We were slowly wandering back to camp by the senic route saturday night into sunday morning. We had stopped into the House of Cards for various reasons and myself being being female and 2 male friends were checking out the scene. I was alone in one of the rooms, and just sort of absorbed in looking at nick nacks and being disgusted at the trash people had left. And i look up and there's an older gentleman, maybe 60ish, standing in front of a warped mirror with a shirt on and his half limp c*ck in his hand, and he just sort of half turned around and looked at me from profile. Needless, I wa very startled, and just turned around and walked out, went and found one of my male friends. he stayed in there quite a while, and no one went to stop him. I don't like being suddenly injected in a mastorbating man's feild of vision. We were in a very public place, and it was very strange to encounter that creepy exhibitionist vibe in a city of uncreepy exhibitionists. But it's one of those moments when you realize that even in fantasy you can't escape the absolute revolting nature of humans. Not a reality check I'm fond of at 8am on a Sunday in the desert.

I hope that women and men who have run into bad scenes continue to post their stories, because if this is as big of an underlying problem as it might seem to be, it needs to be dealt with by the community. How is a different question. look out for your friends, be cautious, but don't be too fearful...if you do, the terrorists will have already won.

III · Post by **III** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:22 pm

so, speaking of which, what's going to happen with will rogers?

PetsUntilEaten · Post by **PetsUntilEaten** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 12:33 pm

III, what are you refering to?

III · Post by **III** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:01 pm

apparently (i've heard rumors, but they're from two independent sources, and match up surprisingly well) will stepped well over the line of good taste and proper behavior, to the point of endangering someone's well being.

it's probably not an easy issue to deal with, and i woudln't really expect an immediate answer. but i'm still curious what's going to happen.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:45 pm

So, uh, how bout those Giants?

III · Post by **III** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 2:55 pm

sorry, i didn't get the "don't let the masses know that" memo.

err, giants? isn't that a new york thing. i'm actually enjooying being in a city with no football team. the old hometown had this hangup about being a "world class city" that required it to have major sports franchises. this new one, not having a football team, is obviously a behind the times country bumpkin town, and i'm kind of liking it. now if we could just get rid of all the actors, movie moguls, and their agents...

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:26 pm

At last, a web-based, legalistic solution to another of our messy human problems!

Allow me to present The Sex Contract!

I would love to meet someone, anyone, who has used this abomination successfully. On the other hand, with this signed contract in hand, I guess you could skip dinner and proceed straight to the "anal penetration" clause.

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:42 pm

Flux wrote:At last, a web-based, legalistic solution to another of our messy human problems!

Allow me to present The Sex Contract!

I would love to meet someone, anyone, who has used this abomination successfully. On the other hand, with this signed contract in hand, I guess you could skip dinner and proceed straight to the "anal penetration" clause.

Cute.

Contracts never hurt, in fact more and more BDSM players are using play agreements to cover their butts in case something goes wrong.

Oral contracts are good things, too. Something to the effect, "Would you like to have sex with me?" If the reply is a direct yes, go for it. If no direct yes, then NO sex. Not sure why this is so complicated.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:48 pm

Stormy wrote:Cute. Contracts never hurt, in fact more and more BDSM players are using play agreements to cover their butts in case something goes wrong.

Oral contracts are good things, too. Something to the effect, "Would you like to have sex with me?" If the reply is a direct yes, go for it. If no direct yes, then NO sex. Not sure why this is so complicated.

it's the fuckwits, stormy

Stormy · Post by **Stormy** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:07 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:
Stormy wrote:Cute. Contracts never hurt, in fact more and more BDSM players are using play agreements to cover their butts in case something goes wrong.

Oral contracts are good things, too. Something to the effect, "Would you like to have sex with me?" If the reply is a direct yes, go for it. If no direct yes, then NO sex. Not sure why this is so complicated.

it's the fuckwits, stormy

Yeah, I suppose the irony would be completed wasted on the fuckwits. A bang over the head with a shovel tends to be within their zone of proximal development.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:37 pm

Stormy wrote:Oral contracts are good things, too. Something to the effect, "Would you like to have sex with me?" If the reply is a direct yes, go for it. If no direct yes, then NO sex. Not sure why this is so complicated.

Indeed, I'm all for openness and communication and all that. I'm just picturing our hero picking up the girl of his dreams for their first date. They stop by Starfucks for a nice after-dinner macchiato, and he whips out his laptop with the WiFi card. After booting up, he heads over to http://www.sex-contract.com/, hands her to computer, and says, "You wouldn't mind completing this little contract, would you?"

Maybe she reads the intro, feels pretty good about the fact that this guy seems really into communication and boundaries and respect, and starts checking boxes on the form. After a minute, though, it hits her: she hasn't even kissed this guy yet, and he's asking for a decision regarding the insertion of foreign objects UP HER ASS! She excuses herself to go to the restroom, sneaks out the back, and calls a taxi to take her home.

The next day, when her friends ask her how the big date went, she says, "Well, everything was fine until we went for coffee. I was thinking that I'd like to kiss him, maybe even fool around a little, and he asks me to fill out a contract in which I give or withhold permission for him to stick his entire fist up my butt. That kind of freaked me out, so I cabbed it home and watched Sex and the City reruns. Gee, I wonder if that slacker guitar player guy is still interested in me..."

Or is that just me? Is this really how people want to negotiate and communicate about sex? If so, maybe I'll print out a few copies and keep them in my wallet just in case. Gotta remember my notary public seal on Friday night, too.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:46 pm

I myself think a little mystery is nice.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:02 pm

Lydia Love wrote:I myself think a little mystery is nice.

Couldn't agree more.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:57 pm

sorry, i didn't get the "don't let the masses know that" memo.

Nor did I Trey. Just injecting a bit of, um, deferential bullshit into what sounds like....um, well....

Nevermind.

Sexual Violence

Wednesday at Temple Of The Space Virgins...

Well I have some good news...

another tale of woe from Not Lord Munkus, but a lady friend