Wearable LEDs: Flora (made to wear) versus not made to wear

[kiss-o-matic]

Toying w/ another LED project. Did some suspenders last year... my bicycle as well which will probably never make it to the Playa due to the Pacific Ocean.

Looking around on Adafruit, seems Flora is definitely made for clothes, and once it's all put together, probably better. A couple of observations/questions having never touched it. Note, this project will be for a pair of paints.

1) Doesn't the wire get hot? Won't it touch my not so beatiful skin? That could be a problem.
2) Looks like these would take ages to sew. I'm thinking 35 on each pant-leg.
3) Other ones I'm looking at are these (although straight from China for about 75% off). As these are strung up, the sewing job would be less demanding (and the string won't conduct heat...unless I'm totally missing something about physics).

Obviously each will have it's pros & cons. The Flora looks like it would run me about $75 for the LEDs, $25 for the controller, and I'm not too sure about the wire from there. $6 per bobbin... probably 2-3 bobbins worth? The latter would be much cheaper for the LEDs, and about $30 for the board. The big problem there is it will require 8 batteries. Uggh...

Can someone chime in on the wearability of these? Feel free to throw out another type. I guess for the 12v solution I'm most afraid of the large board, and the batteries.

[zerzura]

That Flora looks fun, and the fact that you can add sensors to it adds to its fun and experimental factor. You can always add a strip of fabric on the inside of your pants over the electronics (sandwiching them in) to protect your skin. You can even use something like stitch witchery if you don't want to sew that on. IMHO it will be as much work to sew the strings on securely as to sew on those pucks.

In general, anything that is thought out for you, plug and play, and have bells and whistles options will cost a bit more than just the raw pixels from China. That is the cost of their experimentation and making sure it will all just work. Adafruit is supposed to be a great company with fun ideas (although I have never used their stuff), and they have assembled kits so that you can concentrate on the art. You can always mine these forums (there are a number of LED threads) and arduino board ones and come up with a layout that will work too; it will probably be cheaper, but you will have to spend some time to figure out exactly what you need.

Another company that offers pixels and kits is Cool Neon. We use their RGB programmable strings, but built our our controlers as we didn't like their older version of the total control ones. They have new versions which I have not tried. They also have a number of power supply options. The link is their total control LED section of the store.
http://shopping.netsuite.com/s.nl/c.ACC ... ry.1665/.f

[kiss-o-matic]

Cheers for that!

Not sure how it would work w/o some experimentation, but I think an equalizer bar running up the side of the the pants leg would be dope ass shit. Problem would be if you couldn't adjust the sensitivity to the audio sensor though. On the playa, the difference in decibles in the immediate area throughout the night is pretty wide.

I'm probably leaning more towards the Flora for now... battery packs are a pain in the ass. I velcroed one to my suspenders for Halloween and scratch the hell out of my back. :/

[BBadger]

Those Flora/Lilypad things are okay if you want a small project and don't mind paying extra for the convenience of their design. They're usually for weekend hackers that want something premade that they can attach to their clothing for a project. Nothing wrong with that, but it's expensive for what you get. For example, you'd be paying about $1/LED for Lilypad LEDs compared to as low as $0.01/LED in bulk from China. Adafruit is probably looking to cash in on the success of Lilypad with their own platform.

For a larger project I'd suggest looking into buying the raw parts and building your own stuff. For example, instead of dropping Lilypad branded protoboard for $10 a whop, you can instead buy some cheap protoboards from DealExtreme or other places. Then you just solder in some eBay LEDs wire them up throughout your clothing etc.

For your specific questions:

- They're not going to heat up unless you're pumping out LOTS of power and light like an LED rope. LEDs don't draw all that much power, and you'll probably be just fine.

- Wearability-wise, you need to make sure that any wearable electronics has a lot of wire slack to it so that when you're moving, and dancing, and biking, the parts won't come popping off. It's one thing to make a suit that you walk around with, it's another to do activities in it. I'd look into strain relief, a sturdy mounting platform on your clothing, and other strategies such as twisting wires together and mounting them along your clothing, etc. Make sure that if you mount electronics that you don't take shortcuts such as neglecting to solder down parts, gluing stuff down, zip-tying everything you can, etc. Things will come loose and it's better to overengineer your stuff than have it fall apart on the playa.

- There are other ways to power your stuff without having to resort to 8x batteries. For example, you can buy some DC-DC converters that'll take a lower voltage source and covert it into something like 12V (note that you can get these on DealExtreme for good prices too). Still, you're going to need a decent amount of power anyway, so expect to need a decent number of batteries. I'd suggest something like getting some rechargeable RC power packs so that they're all bundled up nicely and you can charge them up during the day. The batteries in those are also NiMH and so they work better than Alkalines for higher currents.

[kiss-o-matic]

Very informative, thank you.

I'm kind of in the middle of something so can't dig too deep. The lily pad things though... are they the same premise as Flora? You sew them w/ metal wire? It looks like there's no lead on the holes, but I'm just judging from the photos in the link you've graciously given. Also, what type of work am I looking at (soldering/assembling + programming) for a project like that . I know C, but time is not on my side (I'm a busy bastard). My last Adafruit project was easily adapted from their LED belt kit. It came w/ a convience C class, and sample code. I just edited that. Ideally the majority of the time would be in the sewing, and the programming bit would be pretty minimal -- a day or so of dicking around.

Finally, on your point of slack and whatnot, I'd be ideally sewing these to yoga pants or dance pants. Is that a problem? Should I go w/ something sturdier like dickies?

The power solutions look invaluable... thanks!

[BBadger]

Almost all those ready-made kits have some sort of Arduino adaptation for them, and any of those wearable type hardware platforms will have tons of ready-made example code to do what you want. I usually find that the software portion is where the real magic comes alive. You can wire yourself up with lights, but if all you're doing is blinking in a repetitious pattern, it's not going to look good. Reserve at least a week to tweak the effects unless you really know how they'll look. Getting stuff like sequencing right or the blend of colors can take a bit of time, especially if you're looking in the mirror, modifying things, and repeating.

If you want to do some graphic equalizer effects, you can look into chips like the MSGEQ7. Often nobody can tell a real spectrum from something that just responds to the beat of music; so that chip might be overkill. Beware that you need to hook a microphone to your body, and also ensure that it isn't affected by your motion or clothing. Also make sure it's somewhat tunable on-playa so that it isn't too sensitive/under-sensitive depending on your surroundings.

For your pants, you'll need to determine whether the motions of your body will affect how you've mounted the LEDs and other hardware. For example, imagine if you're twisting to hop onto a mutant vehicle: is your power connection cable going to become too stretched? What happens if the belt with your power pack slides half-way around your body? Can you prevent that from happening? Are the wires loose in your clothing and could gather up and bind you if you jump too much? Are your lights going to be comfortable while biking? What about the constant motion of your legs while pedaling? Do you need multiple layers so that the wiring doesn't rub/poke your skin? Are wires exposed that could snag on objects, or other clothing? Where do your garments stretch, and should you add some strain relief and slack at those points?

I don't really know if yoga/dance pants will work well. From what I know, that type of clothing is great for stretching and bends, which means you'll need to ensure that the wires predictably move with the pants. The pants may also not be very comfortable with stitching and such if you don't take precautions. It'll all take some testing on your part. You should also invest in some clothing modification tools for heavier-duty work. I've used this sewing awl system for fastening heavier stuff together. It's made for leather and other heavy fabrics, so it does a good job holding things in place.

Testing testing testing.... be sure to try wearing your outfit for a day or so doing all kinds of things from working to gardening before bringing it to the playa. Even something as simple as seeing if your clothing is comfortable while sitting cross-legged on the ground can determine whether you're going to want to wear that thing while at something like a burn.

[kiss-o-matic]

Thanks, dude. That is some invaluable info.

I guess I need to figure out the reliability of what pants I might want to ear, and as you've pointed out, stretchy stuff (like yoga pants) might not work. They're not really known for being super durable either. I unfortunately live in a land devoid of clothes for people that are tall or big by western standards, unless you go to the Big & Tall shop (which is hardly fashionable, or cheap) so I'll likely have to work with what I've got. Gotta get crackin' on that!

[maladroit]

I had LED pants last year, about 20 watts worth of LEDs...they were great. I did also have an MSGEQ7 reacting to ambient sound, and some form of AGC was necessary.

Unfortunately those pants are ripped from the ankle to the waist now.

[Savannah]

I had LED pants last year, about 20 watts worth of LEDs...they were great. I did also have an MSGEQ7 reacting to ambient sound, and some form of AGC was necessary.

Unfortunately those pants are ripped from the ankle to the waist now.

Stop partyin' so hard.

[maladroit]

It made me wonder how much exposure on the playa is just accidental. I know that visitors to our camp thought that I was putting on a show, until I apologized for crab-walking my gaping crotch in front of their couch.

[Zhust]

I thought I'd add that electrical wire seems pretty strong but it will break if it's under tension, especially tension that varies. In other words, don't count on wire surviving if it gets tugged regularly.

Solid wire can be bent a dozen times before it breaks. Stranded wire can be bent a lot more. More strands is better, but also more expensive. 7 strands is typical for general-purpose wire, and 19 strands is for high flex.

Also, especially when I design for clothes, I am putting the strain relief (e.g. snake the wire through a hole or tie it to the circuit board) 3mm or more from the point it's soldered since the solder wicks up the wire and causes a stress point seems to be the point of failure. Other people's examples:

3969642876_2b51cf3284.jpg

(from EvilMadScientist.com)

usbdone_t.jpg

(from LadyAda.net)

[BBadger]

There are some good practices you can follow too. For example, twisting the conductors together so that they don't get tangled, improves the signal quality, and increases strength. Sheathing or fixing wires to larger wires or strings can also give them extra strength. I would also buy a bunch of heat-string and use that for every solder connection that it can fit over; aside from isolating conductive surfaces, the heat-shrink can give a small amount of strength, reduce vibrations, and also seal up holes/connections.

A good source of wire is ethernet cabling, and you can buy stranded ethernet cable which will be more flexible. You get 4x pairs of twisted wire, and you can use the whole cable as a single bundled cable if you need to connect multiple wires to a single location, or even just deliver power over multiple wires. They even have ripcords in the cable to strengthen them. Plus ethernet is pretty cheap.

Remember that glue and tape adhesive melts, and it's a real pain to use glue/tape while on the playa because of the effects of the dust. Glue is good for reducing vibrations, but make sure that if you use hot glue that it's also reinforced with screws and other mechanical binding mechanisms; glue is also good for prevent screws from loosening. I'd consider putting all your electronics into a project box so that you can really reinforce things and mount them. Consider adding sockets for quickly connecting/disconnecting runs, especially for your power connectors. It's a lot easier to just plug in a sealed power pack from a socket than swap out individual batteries.

Bad practices can ruin your day. Just twisting wires together instead of soldering them will ruin your day, especially with parts that may fall off (LEDs, etc.). Also you'll want to keep leads as short as possible on parts like LEDs that have a decent amount of mass. Never allow any strain to make its way to the solder joint, even if it feels strong; perhaps consider using a screw terminals or other means to connect wires. If possible, buy sealed switches or seal them yourself; the dust from the playa can interfere with the connection; even the humidity level seems to affect that.

[kiss-o-matic]

It made me wonder how much exposure on the playa is just accidental. I know that visitors to our camp thought that I was putting on a show, until I apologized for crab-walking my gaping crotch in front of their couch.

Good lordy! There's one for the grand kids.

Solid wire can be bent a dozen times before it breaks. Stranded wire can be bent a lot more. More strands is better, but also more expensive. 7 strands is typical for general-purpose wire, and 19 strands is for high flex.

Any idea where Adafruits (or similar) wire thread falls?

If I actually go through with this on the pants I'm thinking a pair of bell bottoms I have is the best. They're pretty dope and actually fit me quite perfectly (which is rare for vintage clothing). They are polyester though, so are probably about as sturdy as a pair of pants are going to get. Or, I might just go get some Dickies and leave my lovely bell bottoms out of this.

[BBadger]

Most e-textile wire, such as what Adafruit or Sparkfun offers, is stranded stainless steel wire. The main benefit of such wire is that you can sew with it as it doesn't have an insulator that increase the diameter, and that the wire, being stainless steel, doesn't corrode when washed. As the wire is also stranded and steel, it will also be pretty durable. The problems with that kind of wire are its high resistance (28 ohms/ft), the stiffness of the wire, and also the fact that it isn't insulated.

You'll have to decide how your clothing is going to work. Are you going to be connecting a lot of devices via more loose wires around your outfit, or are you going to sew in conductors into the fabric and then to the devices? If the latter, Adafruit's system and wire will probably work good. They're made for fixing to clothes and such, though it costs a bit for that benefit. Remember that you'll need to actually sew those conductors into your suit, but in doing so they'll probably be quite well connected and not come loose.

I'm usually the kind who falls into the former camp, where I'll connect wires around a suit, not put the conductors straight into the cloth itself. Usually this is because I'm using more power/signals and devices than those e-textiles are normally made for. I also like to buy bulk parts and use my own boards. So for that kind of project, I'd buy a spool of stranded, copper wire. For example, something like this. Unless you're kinking it, it should be okay for shorter runs, especially if you twist together the pairs of conductors. Assuming the wire is hidden, I'd also buy multiple colors so you can easily identify power/ground/signal/etc. For providing larger amounts of power to certain locations, you can use larger gauge wire as well. Remember to use stranded wire; speaker wire works okay.

For both setups, when you're wiring up these devices, avoid ground loops. This means to only have one connection to any grounded point, not loops. For example, if you have some lights in a strand, only hook up the strand to ground at a single point, not at both ends. Loops cause signal problems and may affect the operation of your circuits.

[kiss-o-matic]

Yeah, I think I'm going to need some trial and error before I make a decision. I need to sort out 100% what pants their going on and go from there. Second choice will probably be how much power do I want to lug around. Then decide what LEDs/wire to go with.

The easiest place for a battery pack seems to be the pocket. However, getting it up there if you have lights going down both sides of the legs seems like a pain. Off the top of my head, having the board & battery up by the waste, the smartest thing would be to split the wires and mirror each side (which is fine). My soldering skills are pretty novice though, so that's another point of failure.

[trilobyte]

The best way to make sure what you bring to the playa is for what you bring to the playa to not be your very first attempt. Make something now, a starter project if you will. Something to wear around and screw around with. It doesn't have to be super elaborate or expensive, just add something to an old shirt, pants, whatever you have.

[kiss-o-matic]

I know exactly what you mean. I made a couple of knick knacks last year, and while they worked, they didn't work as long as I wanted them to. It was a learning experience. I wanted to up my game this year, but I think this project is going to be a no go. I really can't commit to any piece of clothing at this point, lots of variables on the LEDs (see what I did there?) and real life is really being a bastard to me. I think I'm going to cut my losses on something so flamboyant, but still try to make something which requires more modest skills, and far less time.

Also taking old film cameras from the 60's this year, and coming up w /a game plan for lenses and film is going to take a lot of time.

Cheers for help in this thread though. I will definitely book mark it for future endeavers.

[FinBot]

Hey dude!

A few things I thought could help you along:

Adafruit sell good quality tough lights. You can get em cheaper from aliexpress, but you are guaranteed to get a good solid build of lights from adafruit.

These would work awesome for braces: http://www.adafruit.com/products/1376
You can cut and resolder them to length.

If you choose those 5 volt lights and an arduino controller, you can power it for a night off 4 AA batteries. Yep, 6 volts but it is safe, and the lights will run down to 3.5 volts!


DANGER: more than 6 volts will destroy the lights...!


You can get a battery pack from here: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-x-4-AA-Cel ... b51&_uhb=1

You can get an arduino MUCH cheaper here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arduino-Nano-Co ... 19de4f4fc0



If you don't have experience with arduino, never fear! The basic example code will give you brilliant magical colors!

Ill have my computer and electronics there, so you can come to my camp and get some animations loaded on it at Burning Man! I have an address.

[kiss-o-matic]

Thanks. Still might come up w/ something but I gotta really put my thinking cap on now that we're down to the wire. I'm actually in the states ATM, so might order some lights and see if I can't get some inspiration.