Observations from an outsider.

RoadWarrior · Post by **RoadWarrior** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 8:34 am

Hi folks,

I've yet to lose my playa virginity, but there's that itch inside me to be a burner. Over the last week, I've read a heck of a lot of the threads here about what's "wrong" with Burning Man, and have noticed some points of similarity with things in my own experience outside Burning Man.

Yahoos

It's not just burning man. That probably won't make you feel any better, but it seems to be to me a real world problem that gets reflected at BM. Over the last five years of going camping by the lakes near here, there seems to have been a gradual rise in yahooism. There seems to be a growing cultural mindset that thinks that if you're gonna go out and live in tents and campers somewhere, the done thing is to get smashed 24/7 and act like an asshole. A lot of campsites have in the last couple of years brought in new regulations to try and curb this. For instance many will only register sites to people over 25, and enforce alcohol bans on holiday weekends. This only seems to have partly worked. There are a lot of yahoos over 25, and the alcohol still gets drunk, but is stealthed, i.e. the hard lemonade is now drunk out of a 7/11 "big gulp" cup instead of the bottle it came in. The problem of yahooism was on the rise already, but the regulations to restrict it at camp sites are barely working due to other factors. The municipalties around here have gone draconian on liquor licensing and smoking regulations. It seems to be a general trend across the province of ontario here, and can be seen happening across the US as well according to the news reports that I've seen occasionally. Bars have got over regulated, many are closing up for lack of custom. People looking to party hearty have started going to campsites to get what they can't get in bars, when the regular campsites have succeeded in regulated them out in a year or two, it's going to exponentially magnify the problem at events such as burning man I suspect. That would tend to suggest to me that part of the solution of the yahoos at burning man problem can only be addressed by dealing with the issues in the real world that "force" them to go to burning man as a last refuge. Vote against over regulation of bars and places of adult entertainment in your local area.

Ticket Prices.

If you see my point in the last paragraph, you'll realise that it's going to be real hard to outprice a yahoo who's exchanging his $100 a week drinking fund for the "one great righteous blowout partyfuck of the year" and it will not be wholly through his own will power and free choice that he'll have that disposable, if he can't spend it to his satisfaction in his own area it's hardly gonna be a sacrifice for him to accumulate it for BM. That aside, higher prices seem to MAKE yahoos out of people. Yeah, you heard that right. I live in a *very* tourist oriented town, I've worked in the hotels, people expect a damn sight more when prices go up, they go up due to demand, but people don't seem to understand that the $400 they pay for the room in the summer gets them exactly the same as when they pay $59 for the room in the winter, there's nothing extra for that price. This get's them mad, it gets them in a selfish mood, they start taking towels feeling "entitlement", they treat the staff like shit, they get inconsiderate of fellow guests, it's all "If *I* am paying $400 for this, then *I* am going to do what *I* damn well want, and the hell with anyone else" It's real nasty to see that attitude in that people over money. If ticket prices go up, you're going to see it more at burning man. People will be thinking "I shouldn't have to pack my own trash if I'm paying $xxx" It even increases theft, I've lost 5 bikes and a lawnmower to tourists here. It has always been on a weekend when it's been high priced. People are taking my shit because they think the whole city *owes* them something because of the high price of a hotel room, they take my stuff so they feel they got something. Actually, that was 2 good bikes that were locked I probably lost to that attitude, the other 3 weren't anything special at all, and were probably lost to drunks too lazy to walk. Another thing in that observation is that while working in the hotels, I noticed that the people who had paid for their rooms WELL in advance were a lot more mellow that the people who had paid on arrival.

Therefore, my take on the ticket thing, is that the price needs to be dissociated in the mind from the experience by either being lowish, or by being distant in time. If ticket sales stopped on 1st of July say, I'd think that would go a long way towards avoiding "moneysworth" yahooism. Yes I know there would be scalpers outside selling them for $$$, but that will focus "price rage" on the scalpers, not on the event. It displaces the responsibility in the mind of the scalped. So I say, price the tickets to cover the cost of the event over a limited number of tickets, say 30K, and stop selling early. Either that, or maybe lie, this sounds stupid, but put $25 as the face value of the ticket, keep the same pricing structure, say the other $100 or so is for distribution cost. Sure, you've still got people paying $400 at the gate, but they can read can't they, they've only got $25 expectations??? You guys should help with some brainstorming here on "How to sell a $400 ticket without selling $400 worth of expectations."

Policing and drugs.

Reading accounts of this years burn and previous years, leads me to beleive that increased law enforcement activity and drug busts has put the unwary burner in jeopardy of taking something he didn't want or mean to. It seems to me that people are now so concerned about undercover law enforcement that they are not likely to tell you what's "special" about thier brownies/cookies/koolaid this means all commestible gifts are going to be regarded with the utmost suspicion by the wary burner. I would like to see BMORG take a legal stand here and force all policing into uniform, not because I disagree with the legal status of particular drugs, but because the method of enforcement here seems to creating a situation more dangerous than free and open drug use.

Cameras.

Seems to me, the arguments aren't about cameras, but the fact that with more people being there, and greater access to the internet and picture digitising technology, the likelihood of you being "captured" doing something you wouldn't do in front of your workmates, and that evidence being publically available on the internet has increased several thousand fold. I think the argument needs to be "Take pictures, okay, publish them or distribute them in ANY form, not okay." So if action were focussed more on the prevention of distribution, people would feel safer about cameras, and would still get their personal keepsakes. It's a self reliance principle really, you want to see pictures of it, you take pictures of it, don't expect anyone elses to be available on the net. (Apart from official art pics etc)

I hope I have provided something akin to fresh insight, uncluttered by emotional attachment, that everyone here can gain something from. If not, and I've just stomped on all your buttons, whoops, sorry, it's probably just pure ignorance on my part, won't happen once I've been.

regards,

Road Warrior

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 11:37 am

the bust statistics have shown that over the past few years there has been no real increase per capita in busts

it is a perceptual issue.

people post on here when they feel there is a problem. You get a few 'I was busted/my friend was busted/I heard someone got busted' threads. You never get a 'I was not busted/my friend was not busted/I did not hear of anyone getting busted' threads.

A tourist stole your lawn mower? Whatever for?

I agree that monkeying with ticket prices is not the solution

Is it possible that the event, much to it's chagrin, is simply reflecting what is happening in the rest of our culture?

RoadWarrior · Post by **RoadWarrior** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 1:04 pm

stuart wrote: it is a perceptual issue.

Yeah, if everyone perceives the place is crawling with undercover cops, are they going to tell me what's really in this drink or not?

stuart wrote: A tourist stole your lawn mower? Whatever for?

Okay, maybe I'm making an assumption it was a tourist, however my backyard has a border in common with a hotel parking lot, and it dissappeared between 8am Sunday and 12pm Sunday, when the hotel basically empties. I don't have a damn clue what they wanted with my lawnmower. I'm kind of having a laugh about it though, because I hit a rock with it the week before and bent the shaft, thank god I was too lazy to get around to ordering a new part. I used to have a shed to keep bikes and mower in, but the landlord tore it down to annex part of my back yard to his parking lot.

Kiba · Post by **Kiba** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:26 pm

My only comment is that any undercover police presence never came of concern to anyone in my camp or the general area. The medicinal use was mature but open and never was cause for alarm. That aside, your position is both feasible and sound.

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:56 pm

So...you're saying unless we can help make the real world a bigger party, that our event is doomed?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:57 pm

Yeah, if everyone perceives the place is crawling with undercover cops, are they going to tell me what's really in this drink or not?

this is quite a leap in logic. I think you need to attend before trying to characterize an interaction like this.

RoadWarrior · Post by **RoadWarrior** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:41 pm

Hmmm yeah, guess it sounds like I'm worrying that everyone is out to roofie me, but I realise that that is a bad characterisation and the large majority of people who will seek to gift recreational substances will do so in a responsible manner. This might concern me more than most because I think I have a bit of a delicate body chemistry and the heat and any alcohol could screw me up enough such that anything else in my system might not just cause an intense, disorienting, bad trip, but might put me in serious trouble (There's some cold medicines that can lay me out when I'm sober for example). Wish there was an X or sign for that, straightedge style, I'd just use the X, but moderate amounts of alcohol are fine with me if I'm careful.

Heh, not really saying we have to make the real world a bigger party, but helping preserve it's present freedoms and not letting it slide to nannyism in issues of personal responsibility, would be a measure that would limit the fallout of refugees on BM I would think. Besides, let such legislation encroach past a certain point and BM will be in the sights next, just for issues regarding allowing drunkeness.

Road Warrior

PS stuart, station?

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:49 pm

PS stuart, station?

I don't know what you are asking me here.

anyhow, in my experience there is not a lot of random drug giving. I have never encountered people getting dosed w/o their prior knowledge.

One morning this year I was coming home after dawn and a guy, strolling the esplanade, was asking everyone who passed by if they wanted some weed to help them sleep. He was doing this loudly enough that I heard him from at least 50 feet away. I was pretty damn suspicious of that behavior I tell ya.

theCryptofishist · Post by **theCryptofishist** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:51 pm

stuart wrote:
PS stuart, station?
I don't know what you are asking me here.

My guess (if you'll take the insights of someone damn close to dancing with revolutionary squirrels) is that he's asking about your tag line.

RoadWarrior · Post by **RoadWarrior** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:02 pm

theCryptofishist wrote:My guess (if you'll take the insights of someone damn close to dancing with revolutionary squirrels) is that he's asking about your tag line.

Heh, yes, I was wondering if it was a "Bill and Ted" reference.

stuart · Post by **stuart** » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:07 pm

nah,

it's a Rian Jackson reference

dragonfly Jafe · Post by **dragonfly Jafe** » Tue Oct 19, 2004 4:06 pm

So how often does someone come up to you offering a drink that was made elsewhere (out of your sight)? Oh sure, a few times it's happened (then it's mostly shots), but 99% of the drinks I drink I watch getting made (or make them myself). If I'm getting dosed, everyone's getting dosed because I drink out of the same bottle they do. I'm not trying to play down the whole drugged drink issue, but don't understand how someone can slip something into your drink without you knowing it. Of course, I am a male, so my perspective may be warped. Anyone know how this supposedly get's done by the sleaze-bags who do such things?

mars · Post by **mars** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 9:12 am

RW,

If you are super sensitive, I'd say just Bring Your Own and you will have nothing to worry about. But I'll also add, the likelyhood of getting roofied is extremely slim, unless perhaps you are a young and beautiful woman.

If I were stilll young and beautiful, I think I'd be smart to watch my cup, but, alas, at that time I was too naive to think of such a thing. Now that I know better, I'm not so much in danger any more. Isn't that the irony of life?

But just so's ya know, for the most part people are pretty respectful at BM. And in every party situation there is the potential for some A-hole to act out of bounds.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 8:13 pm

ive heard horror stories from a few burners about someone goin around giving out koolaid or whatever with LSD in it...ill tell ya i had my eyes open for one of these people all week...didnt see a single one...i feel gyped

-Duke

Kiba · Post by **Kiba** » Thu Oct 21, 2004 1:58 pm

Heh, I was kinda worried when this guy offered me oil (fragrance) thinking it was laced. It wasn't.

So far as I can tell, the drug culture at BM is "Looking for like-minded people". I could be wrong tho.

Tiahaar · Post by **Tiahaar** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:22 am

Plus its always correct to politely ask if things are non-drugged before accepting, the snowcone and milkshake people who treated me were glad to assure they were safe givers.

I myself did as promised and had a blast with my "magic chocolate" M&Ms dispenser...they were the special Shrek jumbo peanut ones. Fun to make people happy with chocolate! One girl out at a Mutaytor show snuck over for at least four handfuls...she was really liking them or really starving : ) They tended to melt though in the daytime...maybe will try those Boston Baked Beans for next year?