Testing a Monkey Hut - Fail

[Dr. Pyro]

It certainly would be true if we were drinking absinthe.

[MegsLegs]

Thanks Drawingablank!

I'll plan for this then, and test here before I leave, worst case scenario it falls down, and I'll be no worse off than usual

[Earthwalker]

I trust you MDF. I've seen your MH (VERY nice!); you're super friendly; infectious positivity; and you gave me great advice on personal care. I just have fears with the aluminet. I feel like I could use the tarp for other applications. And there seem to be a ton of people who use them with no issues.

What % aluminet do you get? My MH will be 20ft X 30ft. Looking at this version (below) I'd need to get a custom one and it would cost me well over $200. That seems a bit crazy.

http://www.shadeclothstore.com/products ... cloth.html

[theCryptofishist]

"snip" we will be able to settle the age old argument of which is better!

I was thinking of turning it into a "What, Where, When" event. You know. Just because.

Some mysteries, well, they get answered without much fanfare.

I just want to get a bunch of people who cannot agree on much of anything to stand under shade and disagree strongly while all drinking beer.

Isn't that the Meet and Greet?

Not if we are testing shade. By 6 o'clock it doesn't matter any more. This needs to happen at 2 pm. Since I'm close, I may attend.

[MyDearFriend]

I disgaree. have a 25 foot hut, aluminet-covered, I never guy it and I never have a problem with it. The aluminet will occasionally "breathe" i.e. lift away from the PVC in a hard wind and then settle back, but, the frame stays put.

Hey MDF, but you do guy it - you run ropes from the front and back to the ground, and you also run the rope across the bottom and that is guyed down as well. Or am I imagining things?

Nope, no guy lines, just the rope along the bottom sides attaching the cover to the legs. I use extra 4 ft bungees along the inside (attached to the eyebolts in my leg section connectors, 5 feet up) but mostly for clotheslines. AH HA!!! I remember now guying the boyz's huts last year on the side that faced into that heavy wind along the road. Yes. But if we'd had room to turn them away from that wind I would not have needed to do that.

Earthwalker, I have 70% shade aluminet, and use a standard width (18 ft) since it's better NOT to come all the way to the ground if you want less dust inside. Trust me on that; let it blow through rather than settle in drifts. Since the aluminet is stretchy, you need less than your length, so, for a 30 foot hut I would buy 28 feet off an 18 foot roll, and trim to fit. I made the mistake of buying 25 feet off a 21 foot-wide roll for my 25 foot hut and wound up cutting about 3 feet off the length AND the width. Huge waste. For the 15 foot long huts I ordered 14 feet x 18: fit great.

For 30 ft you'll need at least 75 shark-bite grommets, ditto 6" bungee balls...

MegsLegs, cutting the MH legs into 5 foot sections and connecting them with sleeves makes them stronger.

Int Inc, you know when I get to drinking under shade in the afternoon I agree with everything.

[Savannah]

Int Inc, you know when I get to drinking under shade in the afternoon I agree with everything.

*takes careful notes*

[Frizzboom]

Off topic... but I swear if I don't meet a bunch of you from this forum out on the dust this summer I am gonna be pissed. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

[BBadger]

Just remember with your MH that it's meant to buckle and bend, and that it also depends on allowing airflow through it. Without that airflow (say you block up one end), it may get picked up.

If you're not using a "breathing" shade cloth like MDF is using, but instead just a tarp, you may consider guylining the ends down in front of the entrances just to keep those sides from flying upwards in some freak occurrence. I wouldn't worry about the sides though, as the MH ought to bend enough to accept the wind shock, and the wind will also push the MH downwards from the side, not up. With those guylines on the entrances, it shouldn't pop up at all.

[FIGJAM]

Off topic... but I swear if I don't meet a bunch of you from this forum out on the dust this summer I am gonna be pissed. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

The meet & greet is your only hope!

Other than that we don't exist.

[International Incident]

Off topic... but I swear if I don't meet a bunch of you from this forum out on the dust this summer I am gonna be pissed. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.

The meet & greet is your only hope!

Other than that we don't exist.

Wednesday night. Barbie death camp. That's the hot ticket for meeting all us fuckos. There's a thread in the theme camp page. Swing by that and say g'day.

[Martiansky]

Whats better for attaching the covering to the frame....bungeeballs or zipties?

[FIGJAM]

Bungee balls, zip ties can snap and be moopy.

[Sic Pup]

Speaking of which, imagine my surprise when I saw several different sizes/styles of bungees in my local soul-stealing big box behemoth along with these cool looking cord tightening contraptions (also at least two different kinds).

[silkkat813]

Lots of great ideas. Can someone with an artcar give a tour of all the monkey huts listed on here for comparison?

I have used a tarp last 3 years for my monkey huts.
1st was sharing with a friend that he built. The tarp reached the ground on both sides. We had no problems.
2nd year I used my friend's PVC (he decided on carport) but I bought tarp that wasn't big enough. So I had about a foot open at bottom on both sides. It still provided nice shade. It wasn't as dusty that year.
3rd year (last year) I had a tarp that was too big (12x20 when my PVC was cut for 10x20). I tried to pull it around the poles with bungee cords. But without it being tight, it almost went flying away. I was camped on A and was on C at medical, (Thurs before gates open therefore no other structures around to block the wind or my view), and saw my MH with one side in the air and the other, thankfully, holding on to the rebar. I bolted across the two blocks to jump in the air and grab on the bungee cords to pull it down. (I must say I was irritated at the 3 neighbors at a nearby camp sitting in their chairs watching the whole scene.) I pounded more rebar outside of the MH at an angle to bungee the tarp to them. I duct taped my MH to the poles and the poles to the rebar. I think I used up a whole roll of duct tape keeping that thing together. It flapped a lot so I had to add cuts to it to let in air. It looked pretty beatend by the end of the week.

So my advice, if going with tarp, make sure it is not too big! I have my PVCs in storage in Reno so I only need to get more cover this year. Undecided if I will get tarp again (RIGHT SIZE) or go with shade cloth. There seems to be some good choices here:
http://www.shadeclothstore.com/products ... cloth.html

[winebuff]

Is it a good or bad idea to cover the end of a monkey hut to enclose it? Wind flow a problem or is it ok? Thanks

[Drawingablank]

Is it a good or bad idea to cover the end of a monkey hut to enclose it? Wind flow a problem or is it ok? Thanks

IMHO - generally a better idea to leave the ends open , better breeze through it for cooling - and it looks like this year will be a hot one.

[winebuff]

Perfect. Thx. Hot this year huh? Praying for 75 and calm ha ha

Is it a good or bad idea to cover the end of a monkey hut to enclose it? Wind flow a problem or is it ok? Thanks

IMHO - generally a better idea to leave the ends open , better breeze through it for cooling - and it looks like this year will be a hot one.

[BBadger]

If you enclose your monkeyhut it will trap heat, essentially defeating the purpose of the monkeyhut.

[Noboundaries]

I told this story in more detail on another thread.

I redesigned the MH to fit my transportation and height needs. I had no piece longer than 6 feet. I also added two additional cross ribs to increase the structural integrity. We connected rib each section with a 10" sleeve. The 2 1/2 foot sleeve {30"} on the top of the original one cross rib design gives basically the same lateral integrity as three 10" sleeves on a three cross rib design. (See below).

We tested the MH on the empty playa in early July last year. In 50+ MPH winds the tarp anchors failed when hit by an oblique (angled) wind. The flopping tarp lifted three long ribs on one side off the rebar anchors, collapsing the MH. It was a typical "cascade-type" failure due to the failure of one component. The structure was absolutely fine until the tarp anchors failed.

We changed the rib anchors to 5/8" rebar and changed our tarp anchor system, anchoring each tarp hole instead of looping two holes to one anchor. We also anchored the two outer most ribs on each end to the ground by threading a rope around each rib and anchoring it to the ground.

We had absolutely no problems at BM due to the changes, using vehicles to block the wind, and less wind actually at last year's event.

Below is a picture of what can happen to 1/2" rebar when a Monkey Hut fails in 50+MPH winds.

[winebuff]

So awesome people share all this knowledge, fails and triumphs with us. Love it. Crazy what we do to get prepared for the desert. Thx for the all the great info below!

I told this story in more detail on another thread.

I redesigned the MH to fit my transportation and height needs. I had no piece longer than 6 feet. I also added two additional cross ribs to increase the structural integrity. We connected rib each section with a 10" sleeve. The 2 1/2 foot sleeve {30"} on the top of the original one cross rib design gives basically the same lateral integrity as three 10" sleeves on a three cross rib design. (See below).

We tested the MH on the empty playa in early July last year. In 50+ MPH winds the tarp anchors failed when hit by an oblique (angled) wind. The flopping tarp lifted three long ribs on one side off the rebar anchors, collapsing the MH. It was a typical "cascade-type" failure due to the failure of one component. The structure was absolutely fine until the tarp anchors failed.

We changed the rib anchors to 5/8" rebar and changed our tarp anchor system, anchoring each tarp hole instead of looping two holes to one anchor. We also anchored the two outer most ribs on each end to the ground by threading a rope around each rib and anchoring it to the ground.

We had absolutely no problems at BM due to the changes, using vehicles to block the wind, and less wind actually at last year's event.

Below is a picture of what can happen to 1/2" rebar when a Monkey Hut fails in 50+MPH winds.

[Noboundaries]

So awesome people share all this knowledge, fails and triumphs with us. Love it. Crazy what we do to get prepared for the desert. Thx for the all the great info below!

You're welcome WB! We won't make it this year but I just put your name on a bottle of family co-op Old Vine Zinfandel for next year!

Below is what happened to the Sch 40 PVC in the collapse. Had to replace several of the 6 foot long rib anchors. You can see how a few of them were bent useless by the wind collapse. The one sticking out 90 degrees is kinked like a waterhose! I've been unable to duplicate that level of failure with a vice and work bench!

[MyDearFriend]

I told this story in more detail on another thread.

I redesigned the MH to fit my transportation and height needs. I had no piece longer than 6 feet. I also added two additional cross ribs to increase the structural integrity. We connected rib each section with a 10" sleeve. The 2 1/2 foot sleeve {30"} on the top of the original one cross rib design gives basically the same lateral integrity as three 10" sleeves on a three cross rib design. (See below).

We tested the MH on the empty playa in early July last year. In 50+ MPH winds the tarp anchors failed when hit by an oblique (angled) wind. The flopping tarp lifted three long ribs on one side off the rebar anchors, collapsing the MH. It was a typical "cascade-type" failure due to the failure of one component. The structure was absolutely fine until the tarp anchors failed.

We changed the rib anchors to 5/8" rebar and changed our tarp anchor system, anchoring each tarp hole instead of looping two holes to one anchor. We also anchored the two outer most ribs on each end to the ground by threading a rope around each rib and anchoring it to the ground.

We had absolutely no problems at BM due to the changes, using vehicles to block the wind, and less wind actually at last year's event.

Below is a picture of what can happen to 1/2" rebar when a Monkey Hut fails in 50+MPH winds.

This illustrates the huge disadvantage of using a solid tarp on a Monkey Hut, and trying to make it hold rigidly still.

The flexibility of a loose PVC frame and the wind-permeability of aluminet add quite a bit to the integrity. Aluminet will not start "flopping," since it does not trap air; it will breathe, rather, expanding as wind hits and then contracting as air spills through the holes in the knitted fabric. Harder wind stretches bigger holes which spill air faster. It will not hold enough wind to bend rebar.

And if you leave your PVC loose enough to come apart before it breaks, you can, if need be, put it right back up once the storm has passed.

[Frizzboom]

I have done some quick practice set ups to train our fellow campers how to set up the MH, Fail fail fail. so I built a jig for the rebar, this is version 3 and BAM works every time.

[ConnieH]

Would using 5 foot lengths of 3/4" pvc with 2 foot long 1"pvc sleeves for the ribs, covered with shade cloth be a fail? Maybe do 3 spines of the 3/4" pvc instead of just one to give it more stability?

I have access to about 15 pieces of 20' long 3/4" schedule 40 pvc for free, but don't want my hut to come crashing down for the sake of saving a few bucks. Has anyone experimented with 3/4"?

[FIGJAM]

(Waves enthusiastically) Hi ConnieH!!!!!

[lucky420]

We put one of our Monkey Huts up about 3-4 weeks ago in the backyard. It's still up. Going to leave it up when our guests with ea passes come through reno the week before burn week.

it's just so damn relaxing to go out there and kick back on the chaise lounge and sleep, I mean read.

[ConnieH]

Hi Figgy!! Come find me at Marvin (Idaho CORE) and say hello

Staying on topic, hehe...We are repurposing our old Aluminet monkey hut for our bar structure this year, so I need to build another for our hexayurt front porch shade - the 3/4" pvc seems a little weak, but thought possibly someone in here has tried it already. I guess I'll just try it out in the backyard this week and report in if it was a fail or not...

[Martiansky]

Frizzboom, do you use the jig on your monkeyhut somewhere or is it only a jig?

[socks]

This is the way I have found to be almost fool proof on laying out a monkey hut. Put down your first stake and run a tape measure
across 12 feet and put down your other stake. Now put together your spine of your monkey hut to use a as template. Line up the first spine with your first stake and put down your stakes. Pick it up and do the same on the other side. Its real time saver

[Frizzboom]

The jig breaks down a bit the 10 footers pull out, I finally had to glue joints because of too much float and inconsistency in square in the first two tries. I was ok with ME doing the measuring and squaring with a tape and square in practice, but it was an hour of ME work. I am trying to practice Radical CAMP Reliance WE are all pounding rebar. The boys keep saying they are going to pitch their own tents and not to count on their help, I am not sure what they mean.