Dumping clean water on the playa?

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cryptohex
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Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by cryptohex » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:28 am

Hello all,

This year will be our first at BM. I know dumping gray/black water on the playa is a big no no. I'm working on a evapotron for that... But what about clean water?
There are 4 of us going and had a rough figure of 70 gallons in mind when looking for a water storage. Craigslist produced a 305 gallon, which I bought. It was cheap, and we're doing this trip as cheap as possible. After talking with a few people, the general consensus is to either drive with the tank full or empty (filling only to the 70gal mark would allow shifts in weight that would prob overturn the trailer going down the road).

So I've resigned myself to the fact that we now have to figure out how to use 305 gallons of water in 7 days. I don't want to build a shower because i don't want to deal with that much grey water. We plan on gifting some, we're working on a misting system that doesn't require too much power (trying to do the whole trip on batteries), we have a few other ideas as well. But if we don't get rid of it all, is it ok to dump it on the playa (prob through a sprinkler, so we don't mud up the place too much)? I just need it to be empty for the drive home so we don't flip over when we take turn to fast.

Thanks all!

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by BeeWeeDee » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:50 am

Last year I had excess clean water at the end of the burn. I used it to clean windshields for people leaving. The remainder I sprinkled out on the road.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by mudpuppy000 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:03 am

The big issue will be not making a mud pit with it. That sounds like a lot of water. Is it drinkable?

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by cryptohex » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:05 am

yep, 305 gallons of clean drinking water.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by trilobyte » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:08 am

Just be careful how you sprinkle and you'll be good to go.

Dumping water on the playa's a no (as would be serial sprinkling the same small spot). Sure it's clean, but puddling and even the saturation from repeatedly hitting the same spot can mess up the ecosystem (if I remember correctly from the environmental assessment, there are a couple kinds of creature whose eggs or larvae is below the surface). If you're planning to sprinkle, do it from the back of your truck as you drive slowly down the street (like the water trucks do). You'll get rid of your excess water at the end of the event in no time.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Conduit » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:11 am

Have you taken into consideration the weight of 305 gallons? 305 x 8.33 = 2541 lbs not including the container. Also I've heard rumors that there my be weight stations on the highway to ensure trailers are not over loaded.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by cryptohex » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:12 am

that sounds like a plan! I'm thinking a PVC pipe on the back of the trailer with holes, then turn it on once we leave.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by cryptohex » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:17 am

I thought about the weight, and i just compared it to my parents travel trailer: its about 8000lbs fully loaded and has 2 axles, so 4000lbs / axle is ok. The trailer is only going to hold the water and bikes i think, everything else should fit in the van. so even if we load it up to 4000 lbs, we should still be good. a standard drivers license (in IL at lease) is good up to 16000 lbs. we should be under half of that.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by ygmir » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:28 am

does the trailer have brakes?
that work?
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by cryptohex » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:33 am

trailer brakes: that is a good question... I'm borrowing a buddy's trailer, I'll have to check. In any case, we're not filling the tank until Reno, so only the last 3 hours of the trip will be fully loaded.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Elliot » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:41 am

You say you think you can have 4,000 pounds on that trailer axle, but is it an axle, and tires, of the same or higher weight rating as your parents' trailer? Is the tow vehicle rated for this much? No offense intended, but this sounds like a potential disaster.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Canoe » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:42 am

You may want to consider buying your water from the Community Center in Gerlach if they're doing it again this year. That way you're not pulling that weight up and down the hills in the often congested traffic to Burning Man. It usually costs a little more than getting it in Reno or Fernley, but you save the gas from pulling it up the hills, brakes going down, and save the grief that goes with it. You'd only have the weight for the road to the playa, the descent onto the playa, and the playa out to BRC.
gerlachgid (at) yahoo (dot) com was the contact to find out what the deal is this year.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Canoe » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:46 am

p.s.
that doesn't mean your trailer is safe with that load, or that being over is o.k. if it's a shorter distance, just that the driving grief and gas use of that load would only be for that much shorter distance, with the one "hill" onto the playa.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:19 am

No matter how cheap the cost of the container, hauling it is not a cheap risk.

I would find a couple of food grade 50 gallon drums ($20 apiece) and not add the risk factor to screwing up my burn. 8)
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by ygmir » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:29 am

yup, brakes would be important with that much water.
also, as mentioned, making sure the tires and axle (is there one or two) are rated for more than that weight. you don't want to run at max weight.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by mudpuppy000 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:15 am

Or arrange to have the water delivered on playa into your ginormous container?

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by cryptohex » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:17 am

The van can tow 12,000lbs, so no worries there.
Worst comes to worst, we'll rent a trailer that can handle the weight.
Gerlach seems like the place to get water, wasn't counting on $0.50/gallon though. I think we might be back to the drawing board on this... seeing as we only need about $35 worth of water, i don't want to spend $150 on it, just to dump it on the ground...

Who knew finding the correct sized water tank would be so time consuming / expensive?!?

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Elliot » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:31 am

Waittaminnit....You want 70 gallons? That will cost you a grand total of $70.- delivered to your camp. In one-gallon jugs. 12 cases. Safely stowed in the van. Yep, these are constantly on sale for around a buck a gallon. Get the one-gallon bottles, which do not leak like the 2 1/2 gallon size tends to do. (Different kind of plastic.)

Cheeeeese... what took us so long? I guess the Trailer Wreck Alarm went off.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:41 am

^THIS^

Plus you'll have pee jugs for EVERYBODY!!! 8)
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Dr. Pyro » Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:43 am

trilobyte wrote:Just be careful how you sprinkle and you'll be good to go.

Dumping water on the playa's a no (as would be serial sprinkling the same small spot). Sure it's clean, but puddling and even the saturation from repeatedly hitting the same spot can mess up the ecosystem (if I remember correctly from the environmental assessment, there are a couple kinds of creature whose eggs or larvae is below the surface). If you're planning to sprinkle, do it from the back of your truck as you drive slowly down the street (like the water trucks do). You'll get rid of your excess water at the end of the event in no time.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Krokodyle » Thu Jun 27, 2013 12:23 pm

FIGJAM wrote:Plus you'll have pee jugs for EVERYBODY!!! 8)
They'd make a hell of a gifting item. :D
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by BBadger » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:10 pm

cryptohex wrote:Who knew finding the correct sized water tank would be so time consuming / expensive?!?
Because your metric for "correct" sizing is flawed. The "correct" sized water tank is one that is cheap, convenient to load/unload and use, and safe to transport. Notice how none of the above actually specifies size. The only "size" you deal with is the mass of water you need to transport. That mass is a constant, and you should apply the above metrics to it to find the optimal solution.

Maybe you wanted a single tank? A single tank has advantages, but often has many disadvantages. The tank will be fixed to your trailer the entire trip, requiring you to tow it around if you need to move it. For filling up anything you need a secondary container to fill up at the tap, and then haul around (like to your sink). You have to fit shade over that tank to keep things cool. You're even wasting gas hauling 1.3 tons of water (435% of your water needs) just so things don't slosh, as well as dedicated wasted space on your trailer that you could use to haul in other stuff.

Don't feel bad if you ditch the tank you bought. Even if you spent $500 on the thing, you'll be saving a lot of time, effort, and safety not having to work around that thing.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by EspressoDude » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:30 am

Not to forget that a single leak can cause all water to drain out. And one tank contaminated is all your water. Spread your risk.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by unjonharley » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:16 pm

I don't understand.. People insist on the water suitcase.. I have emergency water at the house.. 5 gallon bottles.. They sit waiting most of the year.. They need to be changed out now and then.. Years ago i picked up a pump (cheap plastic) for 5 gallon bottle.. 40 pounds full.. one person can handle it.. I also have six 3 gallon bottles. These are in daily use as rotated.. There is an earthen ware jug on a stand.. to help keep the water cool.. Every house should have some stand by water.. Unless you like in some kind of Eden where nothing will ever happen and that your water will be there for ever and ever..

For the playa I can have a few bottles of water that ship nicely..

For myself, I carry one 5 gallon bottle, two shower bag full, a collapsible 5 gallon bladder and (this year) a Iglo drink dispenser .. Extra CLEAN water can be sprayed around the lounge area of camp.. Keeps the dust down.. All the items are used all year around or store nicely..

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by BBadger » Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:24 pm

I like those 5-gallon bottles too. I took one home that someone in the camp "donated" by leaving it for others to take home; I brought it the subsequent year. Maybe it's that people see the price tag of $12 or something and think it's not worth it, but the water tastes good from it, it's not hard to carry around, it straps down tight, and it's rigid. It'd be good even in Eden where I live (according to the Mormons here), especially when subcontractors installing water pipes dump whole bottles of chlorine into the pipe just to force it to pass water quality standards. :?
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Elliot » Tue Jul 02, 2013 1:43 pm

People seem to like the carrying handle on the 2 1/2 gallon "suitcase" jugs. The problem is that these are made of very thin "milk jug" plastic, and they crack easily. I've found them sitting in a puddle several times. Of course, they will soak whatever they are stacked ontop of. So anything but those.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by daft » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:32 pm

Hmmm. Maybe sell the container or return it and find a container(s) that will hold the 70 gallons.

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Savannah » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:38 pm

Elliot wrote:People seem to like the carrying handle on the 2 1/2 gallon "suitcase" jugs. The problem is that these are made of very thin "milk jug" plastic, and they crack easily. I've found them sitting in a puddle several times. Of course, they will soak whatever they are stacked ontop of. So anything but those.
I've had weird good luck with them on-playa and will continue to get them, but I know to recycle them post-playa or use them immediately afterward, because they will definitely leak in a month or two.

I do not stack them or let them sit in the sun; that might help.
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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Just_Joe » Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:59 pm

Savannah wrote:
Elliot wrote:People seem to like the carrying handle on the 2 1/2 gallon "suitcase" jugs. The problem is that these are made of very thin "milk jug" plastic, and they crack easily.
I've had weird good luck with them on-playa and will continue to get them, but I know to recycle them post-playa or use them immediately afterward, because they will definitely leak in a month or two.

I do not stack them or let them sit in the sun; that might help.
I use both.

My case for single gallons.....

-four to a milk crate (protected)
-milkcrates can be stacked

Screw top lid allows for
-hefting jug over my shoulder, taking a swig,and then sealing shut.
-powdered drink mixing
-bleach and reuse
-gray water storage
-pee jug

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Re: Dumping clean water on the playa?

Post by Canoe » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:50 am

Savannah wrote:...I do not stack them or let them sit in the sun; that might help.
Looking around the web, there are multiple reports that any of the plastic water containers (suitcase, box, jerrycan, etc.), even the very expensive ones, soft shell or rigid, will weaken and seams split or become brittle and fracture, once they have sufficient exposure to the sun, particularly that of Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada. Fortunately for BRC purposes, the time frames reported are where people are storing them outside under the sun, be it for a whole season or more typically year round.
So yes, not in the sun, to maximize their reliability and life.
(the reports did not include larger barrels)
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
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