cooling your tent or van

[Canoe]

...The swamp cooler will be in the shade, but this material is expressly made for constant exposure to the sun. ...

I was thinking heat/sun absorbed by the black filter material might be evaporating water away from the filter surfaces that the air flow might want to use.
But if it's in the shade, that's the bulk of the heat blocked.

I'm guessing FIGJAM means to run straps/bungees on the outside of the bucket, they're away from the filter and under tension so likely to stay that way.

[doober831]

First off...Thanks to Figjam for posting this and being so active in answering questions. I think this is the only forum I've seem where people don't get flamed for asking questions that have already been asked. No snarky comments about using the search feature. What a welcomed relief. I've done my best at digging through all 70 pages before asking any questions.

Anyway, I'm looking to buy a fan for a bucket model that I'm going to use to cool my popup camper that is about 400 cubic feet. I know that this fan:

http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8556/ ... D2fh#blank

is the one fig suggests but I came across this fan:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/deaf12recveh.html

It's sold out on that site but available elsewhere, the site above just shows that specs. Would this fan work / be ideal? It doesn't move quite as much air but it uses about 1/2 the amps and is quite a bit cheaper. Any thoughts?

[Oldguy]

Wouldn't an insulated dryer hose line be more efficient than 4 inch sewer hose line ? Or do you wrap your line with foam wrap ?

I am thinking a straight inside surface of a pipe limits air turbulence.

[FIGJAM]

doober, that fan has good pressure and moves a fair amount of air for that power draw.

That being said, the more air the better.

If you have the power use it to move more air, especially it the space isn't shaded.

Old guy, the smooth interior of the septic line seems to get a little better flow.

The air isn't in the duct long enough to get hot unless you have a long run from the bucket to the space being cooled.

I don't insulate my duct.

[Oldguy]

OK, smooth pipe it is, but I am going to wrap insulation around the pipe, even if its just a cloth wrapping to reflect light/ heat.

[Canoe]

Foil-sided Bubble-Wrap.
Insulation with a radiant barrier.

[theox]

anyone know if there's a "simple" way to convert this fan http://www.frozencpu.com/products/8556/ ... D2fh#blank so i can just plug it into a regular 115v ac outlet? the most powerful fans i've found that are 115v ac ready are not as powerful.

[FIGJAM]

You can hook the fan and pump into this!

http://compare.ebay.com/like/3802166787 ... s&var=sbar

[theox]

right on... thanks. i have a couple of those lying around, in fact. so i just splice the wires together?

[FIGJAM]

To the right polarity, yes.

[Bounce530]

Are most all computer fans the same? I'm making this cooler on the super cheap, and not have to buy a lot of stuff for this cooler. I have access to dead computer towers that still have their stock fans, and wonder if I could just snitch a fan out of one of them to use when building the bucket cooler.

[Canoe]

Are most all computer fans the same?...

In short no.
Their pressure and actual air-flow when used in this application varies, as does their noise and the amount of current they draw. Too far from the recommended specs and you will not have good performance.
FIGJAM has explained what & why a few times in earlier posts in this thread. Perhaps he'll explain yet again or chase down those posts and provide a link. Or you could search.

[FIGJAM]

Most of the standard tower fans are 25 to 60 CFM. (cubic feet per minute)

The very first cooler I made used a Harbor Frieght solar pump and a 105 CFM fan.

Although it did work, it did'nt push much air and the panel had to be in just the right possition to pump enough water.

Testing showed that the more air you could move through the wet pad the better it worked and the bigger the space you could cool.

One guy had 5 or 6 fans like you are talking about set up on the side of a box like cooler, but it turned out to use more power for less air than I get with the fan I use now.

Try it if you want to, but believe me, I've done the testing so that you won't have to.

[Conduit]

Figjam -

I built your swamp cooler over the weekend! I live in Riverside CA which is desert hot and dry. The funny thing is the day I built the cooler it decided to rain so I couldn't test it! (warm and humid) CRAP!!! Anyway, I used a 252 CFM fan because bigger is ALWAYS better and I also still suffer from the lack of moderation in most things I do (sober 8 years lol). That being said, due to the larger CFM fan, should I make more holes in my bucket then the normal (8) 2" holes that I've seen in your design? Also I used 1/2" tubing vs the 3/8 tubing because it fit on my pump better. I work with water engineers and they assure me that due to less friction loss, I should be getting better pressure however the water only drips out of the holes I made and doesn't appear like little "streams" of water that I've seen in your photos. My holes are about 1" apart. I'm thinking fewer holes perhaps? This was super fun to build! Thanks!

[FIGJAM]

My holes are 3/4" apart.

It's more about the size of the holes than the number.

I don't think you will need more holes in the bucket since the air can flow completely around the pad once it enters trhe bucket.

How are you going to supply enough power for that fan for the week?

[Conduit]

My holes are 3/4" apart.

It's more about the size of the holes than the number.

I don't think you will need more holes in the bucket since the air can flow completely around the pad once it enters trhe bucket.

How are you going to supply enough power for that fan for the week?

I have a 105ah deep cycle battery and a 7w solar trickle charger. I only plan on running this for maybe 3-4 hours per day so I think my math works out on the power. I'll tell you, the fan is pretty loud though... For the holes, I used a metal coat hanger heated on the stove while I was simultaneously cooking dinner. Do you think the holes should be smaller?

[Canoe]

...I used a 252 CFM fan because bigger is ALWAYS better ...

Re-read FIGJAM's post immediately above yours.

[Conduit]

...I used a 252 CFM fan because bigger is ALWAYS better ...

Re-read FIGJAM's post immediately above yours.

Gosh, what am I missing?

[FIGJAM]

Your holes may be to big.

Which pump are you useing?

Try making the holes with some 12 or 14 gauge wire.

[Conduit]

Your holes may be to big.

Which pump are you useing?

Try making the holes with some 12 or 14 gauge wire.

Using the solar one from harbor freight

Thank you so much!

[FIGJAM]

That pump will only be enough under perfect conditions.

Now the one I use isn't listed on the site anymore, so I'll have to look for another source.

[solemnraven]

That pump will only be enough under perfect conditions.

Now the one I use isn't listed on the site anymore, so I'll have to look for another source.

yeah...I've been looking for that pump since before last year's burn.

I used a solar powered one which did the job alright for the water, my problem was the fan.
doing a rebuild this year, money pending...so a new pump may be in order. pm me when you get it if you can?
otherwise ill keep searching.

[FIGJAM]

Here it is, but every time I find it the price has gone up!

http://compare.ebay.com/like/4005193924 ... s&var=sbar

[doober831]

Hello again,

So I've starting accumulating all the necessary stuff to build a bucket cooler. Fan, pump (the one's figjam suggests) and battery minder charger are on the way and I bought a Costco 115 AH marine starting/deep cycle battery yesterday. I have a few questions about the battery. What's the max draw I should put on the battery? Also, what type of deep cycle is it? I'm curious about proper maintenance to ensure the best possible battery life.

I'm asking about max amperage on the battery because I have a couple 02Cool fans that I was thinking about powering off of the deep cycle in addition to the bucket cooler as a way to better circulate the air throughout my camper. The bigger 02Cool pulls 500mA in addition to the 1.6 or so the bucket cooler will pull. I'm not sure what the two smaller 02Cool fans pull but certainly less than that. Come to think of it the smaller fans might not be 12v.

I guess a better first question would be whether or not fans in the camper for circulation are needed? The setup of my pop up camper is such that I think I'll have the bucket cooler coming in nearer the top and the exhaust holes near the floor. I'd like to do it the other way around but I'm not sure the ducting will fit that way.

Also, is it recommended to include a fuse between the cooler and the battery? What about between the additional fans and the battery? Or maybe I should have all those things go to a main power lead that has a fuse? I'm slightly familiar with the concepts behind electricity but only on a very basic level. Does anyone have a link to a good site that explains the concepts and maybe has some wiring suggestions or options?

[sick]

This has likely already been asked and answered and I just missed it, so please forgive me!

Since we are utilizing evaporative cooling, doesn't it make sense to maximize the amount of pad(dura-cool/whatever) that is wet but not submerged?

What I am thinking of is a 2 bucket system. The bucket on top hast the holes cut in the sides and lid, the fan, and the pads. The second bucket is underneath and holds the water and the pump.

Water is pumped from the bottom bucket to the top where it drips down, getting ALL of the pad in the top bucket wet.
Water then drains into bottom bucket.

i may be explaining this terribly, do you see what I am getting at?
Anyone tried this? thoughts?

Thanks
sick

PS
as always, mad props to figjam for the guidance, pictures, and cool air.

[FIGJAM]

Your point about "more pad" is right on as long as you have the bigger fan to make it affective, otherwise you don't gain anything.

[Canoe]

...I have a couple 02Cool fans that I was thinking ... as a way to better circulate the air throughout my camper...
I guess a better first question would be whether or not fans in the camper for circulation are needed? The setup of my pop up camper is such that I think I'll have the bucket cooler coming in nearer the top and the exhaust holes near the floor...

I'm willing to tackle this part.
There are some potential issues with some odd layouts and with co-locating of swamp-cooler incoming and the exhaust, and a question of whether additional fans will help or hinder. It's a matter of optimization so you get both the fastest cooling of the interior and the most cooling of the interior from the power you use. Rather than distract with listing all of the possibilities, can you post a quick layout diagram (reasonably close to scale - a link to make & model layout would be good), showing where you plan on having: the swamp-cooler incoming air, and the exhaust. And post the interior height vs. the height off the floor of the swamp-cooler incoming and of the exhaust.

[doober831]

Thanks for the help canoe. The camper I have is pretty rare and I haven't really been able to find much info on it beside a few scanned sales brochures from way back...the brochures at least give you an idea what im working with. *the pics are not of my camper but one just like it...i don't have any images of mine hosted on the web anywhere.




So I don't have exact numbers on the height because I can't pop the camper where it is currently stored but have most of the other measurements and I'll estimate the popped heights. The floor which is just the ~3' strip that actually sits on the truck bed is 97" long. The camper is 67" wide so the benches that run the length of the truck bed and parallel to the floor are about 18" wide and the same 97" long. I hope that makes sense in to someone who doesn't have a picture of this in their mind. Anyway, as for total height it is probably 7'-8' inside by the door and tapers down to about 1' at the end of the cabover. I'm 6' and can stand upright in most of the main area of the camper.

I sleep in the cabover area with my feet towards the front of the truck which puts my head about in the middle of the upper window on the side of the camper. I'd like this to be the area which receives the greatest benefit of the cooler. In my mind the best approach would be to pump the cooled air in as high as possible...say at the peak of one of the triangular windows in the vinyl material and have the air escape somewhere near the floor. Each side of the camper has an opening in the bench at the front corners of the camper. Looking at the second picture it would be just below the front end of the bottom side window on the bench (meaning if you take the cover out you are looking at the ground). Again, I hope this makes sense. The only problem with this idea is I don't know how I would suspend the cooler up that high to minimize the distance I have to duct the air into the camper.

The upper side windows open and it would be a bit easier to get the bucket nearer them but then the air is coming in half way down the height of the camper and is escaping below that so I'm afraid that the upper half of the camper (where i sleep and where most of the radiant heat comes from) wouldn't receive much benefit.

I'm going to stop here since this post has already gone on for waaaaaay to long.

Thanks again!

P.S.
Got the fan today! Now I just need to wait for the pump.

[Canoe]

Good enough on the measurements. But a thought to remember with a swamp-cooler, when you return to your camper and turn it on, it's not just a source of blowing cool moist dust-free air. As it pushes it's cooled air into the camper, it pushes all the hot air out of the camper. You don't need to have it ducted and directed at your body. In fact, that could be rather uncomfortable.

Have you acquired a fan and pump for your swamp-cooler yet?

I do see some concerns that have to be addressed, but it's a lot better than I thought it was from your earlier post.
I'm going to go digest what you wrote and internet for interior shots.


Curious: you're not leaving that top up and awning out when you're away from the camper and out exploring BRC, right?

[doober831]

Got the fan today. The 190 cfm that figjam links to in previous posts. I got it here for a bit cheaper than the place figjam suggests.

Pump is on the way, again, same one figjam suggested.

Fan is here, pump should be tomorrow.

I'll take some pics tomorrow and post em, there's really not much on the internet and the few I've found aren't very good and show camper that have options that mine don't. Mine is totally bare bones. No sink, stove, closets or anything.