cooling your tent or van

[Canoe]

... Mine is totally bare bones. No sink, stove, closets or anything.

It was sparse, but I found two interior shots. And the brochure with the drawing of the optioned layout and the "shell" layout.
Yours can't be completely bare bones. Those didn't even have the sliding bed to extend your head out to the middle of that window. You were supposed to sleep sideways over the cab...

Or, does yours have the stock sliding bed that is the full width of the camper, or is it a custom setup where the bed is narrower and you can standup with the bed extended in place?

Do either of your lower windows open?
How large are the openings in the bench?
How far does the camper overhang the side of the truck?

(being up high, having a duct going through the vent in the material could be bad idea, but don't worry)

[doober831]

I do have the slide out bed that is the full width of the camper. I lay with my feet to the front bumper and head to the back bumper, not sideways. The lower windows do not open, the upper glass windows and the triangular vinyl windows do open.

The bench openings are pretty large, maybe 1.5' by <1'. I think one of them open would allow enough air to be passively exhausted. The camper doesn't overhand the side by much, my side mirrors are still the widest point when the camper is on. I'm pretty sure that there isn't enough clearance between the truck bed and the overhand to get a 4" duct into that hole from outside the truck unless I run the duct from the tailgate to the front of the bed which uses too long a run of ducting. I'm putting the camper on my truck sometime next week so I can check then.

And, NO, I am not leaving the camper popped while out and about.

[Canoe]

And, NO, I am not leaving the camper popped while out and about.

So any hose using the pop-up windows would have to be uninstalled/installed over and over. And, although some have run circular vents through soft-tops and tents, and up high, your camper top being up so high would make that vulnerable to wind damage to your material.

I do have the slide out bed that is the full width of the camper.

So incoming or venting could be done through the upper side windows.

The bench openings are pretty large, maybe 1.5' by <1'. ... The camper doesn't overhand the side by much... pretty sure that there isn't enough clearance between the truck bed and the overhand to get a 4" duct into that hole ...

Great news on the bench openings (we'll get back to that).
So there isn't clearance to hang a custom uni-cooler under that lip feeding the bench opening, and hanging one on/through an upper window would work, but leave little flexibility for adjusting air-flow inside.

[Canoe]

• A swamp-cooler sitting on the ground would be pumping the heavier cool air up a great distance to get to the bed and fill that volume to displace the hot air inside.
• And there are airflow issues with the day-time configuration with the bed slid to the front vs. the night-time config with it pulled out in place. The cold air is going to fall to the bottom of the camper, fill up, and want to displace the hot air upwards. This is perfect for day-time setup, as you're sitting on the bench with cool air quickly filling up around you, with the hot air rising to the top.
• Using a bench hole as an exhaust vent would be exhausting cooler air that falls to the bottom of the camper, unless you duct that up to the top. And that ducting would have to be adjusted between top up & top down modes to be most effective, and you'd be playing with it when you raise/lower the top.
• The obvious exhaust is when the swamp-cooler is open and the top is up, open a vinyl window a bit. If you're running the swamp-cooler with the top down (surviving really strong winds) you can crack an upper window on the lee side for exhaust. In both cases this gets the hottest air (hot air rises) out the exhaust when the swamp-cooler is running. You'd have to remember to open and close your vent/window.
• If the bench holes are in feet, then there's plenty of room for air to either exhaust or intake. You have the opportunity to install a swamp cooler on the inside, much like the uni-cooler design, only with hot air supplied into a box from the bottom sitting directly over a bench hole, or the bench hole is ducted into a box. This means there is nothing external to the camper to get blown around in a high wind, and the swamp-cooler is not sitting down low and trying to pump heavier cool air up to fill the camper and displace hot air, and a flexible dryer duct can be used on the output of the swamp-cooler so you can easily adjust were the cooled air is going, to be effective in day-mode (easy) and you can adjust it around to where it is most effective when the bed is full open (which is difficult to predict in advance) so you're adjusting a hose instead of trying to re-configure a swamp-cooler installation on-playa.

I have some drawings. Will post.
(continued)

[FIGJAM]

How much space is there between the bench seat and the bed of the truck?

Is that space accessable when the campers on the truck?

A bucket cooler may fit in that space, but it would have to be accessable for filling with water.

You would have to cut a hole in the bench for the duct, but the air would blow straight up into the camper and you would'nt need a septic 90 on the bucket.

One of the rear corners may be ideal for this!

The bucket would sit on the bed of the truck with the 4" connector sticking up through the bench.

No extra ducting!

[Canoe]

You need a sealed box that contains the swamp-cooler.
This allows the swamp-cooler to suck in hot outside air that it needs to work.

In simplest form, a bucket-cooler can sit inside the sealed box (no holes in the bucket shown in the drawing).

This shows the box sitting over the bench hole, with weather stripping sealing the box over the bench hole. (and weather stripping sealing the top of the box)

swamp-cooler from feeder box - bucket cooler.png

And this one shows the box fed from a duct from the bench hole. This allows the box to be by the bench hole, or located elsewhere within the camper.
A duct can pull air through either upper window too, but may be harder to accomplish a seal.
Such a duct will have hot air running through it - consider insulating it.

swamp-cooler from feeder box - vented intake.png

(bottom of vent doesn't export to png well)

[Canoe]

And the uni-cooler design, for inside, if you're up for more construction. It can be made to sit over the bench hole, or ducted to locate elsewhere inside the camper.

The section on the right is just open box, for the air through the bottom (or ducted into the side).
With the fan coming out the side, you don't have issues with the bed in the way of venting, and you can upgrade to the Endless Breeze fan at a later date. When running in day-mode, just let the air come out of the fan. When running in night-mode with the bed extended, have a dryer duct on the fan output to get the cool air directed into the bed space (and with a bit leaked out to the space below, so the hot air is exhausted from the whole camper efficiently (so you're not heated from hot air semi-trapped below the bed).

swamp-cooler from feeder box - unicooler variation.png

You can size the box to get the largest water reservoir possible, so you're not filling it up as much.

I've shown it with a low water level as a red line. You don't want to go below this, to ensure that not only is the pump inlet always within water, but the pump itself is always covered to ensure it is cooled sufficiently. To that end, with rigid tubing like 1/2" PVC, you can pump through the side and below the low-water line, and drill a hole there such that an external sealed water container will automatically replenish the reservoir. The noise of the gurgling and the lowering water level in the water container are both indicators that allow you to detect that the reservoir needs to be filled up again.

Like FIGJAM suggests, if there is space below the bench for a bucket cooler, such a tube can be used to refill the bucket through the bench hole. Also, if there isn't enough room for a bucket below there, perhaps another plastic container or a custom box uni-cooler could fit in what space is there.
Nice if there's space to reach through the bench hole into the swamp cooler in the event that you have to scoop out some wet playa dust if it's been a really dusty year.


The section on the left needs to be water proof, or use a plastic container, like was done here.

swamp-cooler uni-cooler variation - sm.jpg

[Conduit]

Hopefully this will save someone from making a stupid mistake. If you buy the harbor freight solar pump, do not try to connect it directly to your deep cycle battery! I did not read the box on the pump until AFTER I burned it up! The operating voltage of the pump is 7 volts and the battery is 12v. Oops! Anyway there you have it.

[Conduit]

Your holes may be to big.

Which pump are you useing?

Try making the holes with some 12 or 14 gauge wire.

My holes were too big. I made a new ring last night with 14 gauge and it worked great! Thanks again for your help Figjam

[Canoe]

Further to the Camper's swamp cooler...

There's another factor that in most shelters doesn't come into play.
While hot air rises, cool air also falls.

You've been running your swamp-cooler and your shelter is full of cool air. Shut the swamp-cooler off, and that cool air will try to fall. In most shelters, like a hexayurt, that doesn't matter much, as the cool air will fall out to the level of the bottom of the exhaust vent or the swamp-cooler incoming, which ever is lower, with hot air entering to replace whatever volume of air fell out. As this hot air rises to the top as it enteres, and a large amount of cool air is retained. Although this is inefficient (that upper hot air does radiate some heat downwards), this usually doesn't matter as most people won't even notice (they're sitting/sleeping down low within the retained cool air). (we are ignoring what can fall out through small openings, like cracks around doors, which will lose the cool air over time)
You can see a typical arrangement in the drawing, with the exhaust in the hexayurt wall up high.

In your camper, once full of nice cool air and you shut the swamp-cooler off, if you're using the bench hole (it's open, either directly as exhaust or feeding a swamp-cooler), then the cool air will fall out down to the level of the bench hole, and hot air will be drawn in and will now fill the area above that. As you're sleeping near the top, if you're cycling the swamp-cooler you'll be regularly subjected to hot incoming air, and will be using the swamp-cooler more & more. And you'll be using more battery and more water that otherwise would be required.

swamp-cooler from feeder box - cool air falling.png

You can delay this by closing your exhaust vent every time you shut off the swamp-cooler. This is a drag if you've set the swamp-cooler up on a thermostat, a timer, or with a remote on/off switch that is run to your bed for your convenience, because getting up to open/close the exhaust vent is anything but convenient. To get around this, as part of the shroud for the swamp-cooler fan, on that output add a flap like a dryer vent flap. This will allow the fan's cool air to push the flap open and operate as normal. When you turn the swamp-cooler off, the flap will be closed and prevent the flow of cool falling out through the bench hole.

This can be plumbed for an inside swamp-cooler or if one fits under the camper and inputs through the bench hole.

[FIGJAM]

I think my way would be easier.

Normally when it's hot enough to use a cooler, you don't turn it on and off.

You always want the air moving.

If the bucket will fit in the space under one of the benches, it will be out of the way with no need to ever move it.

When in use, just open a window a little for venting the hot air out.

You could have removable a "snorkle" on it to direct the air up to the sleeping space for napping during the day that you could remove anytime your not in bed because the rest of the time the cooler would be flooding the area with cool air blowing upward out of the cooler.

[winterdream28]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned in this thread. I have skimmed through it a handful of times and have not seen this question.

I was wondering thoughts on making a swamp cooler for two tents using a fork in the road tube(High-tech name due to lack of knowledge). If we have one pump and did the two fan version do you feel that would adequately cool both tents? Appreciate the advice.

[FIGJAM]

I don't think so.

How big are the tents?

[Canoe]

We're saying near the same thing. Only if one can't fit under the bench, I'm showing how to have the swamp-cooler inside, addressing issues with mounting, lift and loss of cooled air.

>I think my way would be easier.

Pretty much. Hopefully there's room under there, if not for a bucket cooler, then for a custom sized swamp-cooler. If there's room under there, there will enough air flow too.
But getting a swamp-cooler to fit under there doesn't negate the other considerations required.

> Normally when it's hot enough to use a cooler, you don't turn it on and off. You always want the air moving.

If your shelter/swamp-cooler is plumbed such that the cool air falls out while sucking in hot air (height of incoming vs. exhaust vs. shelter height), or it has poor insulation or absorbs a lot of heat quickly, you'll have to.

> If the bucket will fit in the space under one of the benches, it will be out of the way with no need to ever move it.

Nor need to secure it for travel if installed secured the first time.

>When in use, just open a window a little for venting the hot air out.

[*]The obvious exhaust is when the swamp-cooler is open and the top is up, open a vinyl window a bit. If you're running the swamp-cooler with the top down (surviving really strong winds) you can crack an upper window on the lee side for exhaust. In both cases this gets the hottest air (hot air rises) out the exhaust when the swamp-cooler is running. You'd have to remember to open and close your vent/window.

> You could have removable a "snorkle" on it to direct the air up to the sleeping space for napping during the day that you could remove anytime your not in bed because the rest of the time the cooler would be flooding the area with cool air blowing upward out of the cooler.

You don't want it flooding upward out of the cooler if the fan will shoot it up to the upper area. That mixes the cool air with the hot upper air, diluting the cool, so you're exhausting a mixture instead of just the hot air. Would take longer to cool the interior when you return to your camper. If you can get one under the bench, direct the incoming cool air sideways during the day so where you're sitting fills with cool air first, for the quickest cooling.

[*]... a flexible dryer duct can be used on the output of the swamp-cooler so you can easily adjust were the cooled air is going, to be effective in day-mode (easy) and you can adjust it around to where it is most effective when the bed is full open (which is difficult to predict in advance) so you're adjusting a hose instead of trying to re-configure a swamp-cooler installation on-playa.
When running in night-mode with the bed extended, have a dryer duct on the fan output to get the cool air directed into the bed space (and with a bit leaked out to the space below, so the hot air is exhausted from the whole camper efficiently (so you're not heated from hot air semi-trapped below the bed).

And due to the vertical differences, with a swamp-cooler inside or under the bench, you need that flap on the incoming swamp-cooler air to prevent the cool air from falling/draining out through the swamp-cooler/bench-hole, which otherwise will immediately suck in hot outside air which will fill the space down to the level of the bench.

[winterdream28]

I don't think so.

How big are the tents?

Big mothers. LOL two Kodiaks one 9x8 one 10x14

[FIGJAM]

You'll need 2 coolers.

[winterdream28]

You'll need 2 coolers.

Thanks for the help:) Trying to solve the keep two Kodiaks cool crisis. Trying to save some money, but in long-run don't want to get out there and regret our cheapness!! Thanks Figjam:)!

[ck94901]

Simple question from a newb, after having spent time searchin and scrollin for the answer -

Do ALL swamp coolers require a duct out? A friend is offering me their supplies to make one (ah, beautiful gifting), but it's not do-able for me if it requires duct out of my tent (Springbar...ain't no way I'm putting a hole in it!)

[winterdream28]

Simple question from a newb, after having spent time searchin and scrollin for the answer -

Do ALL swamp coolers require a duct out? A friend is offering me their supplies to make one (ah, beautiful gifting), but it's not do-able for me if it requires duct out of my tent (Springbar...ain't no way I'm putting a hole in it!)

We have a Kodiak tent ourselves and was hoping we could use one of the 4 doors ( 4 reallllly?) and the two zippers to put the ducts through there and zip it around the ducts maybe add some duct tape if there is any air gaps then just never use that as a door. That door would then been the swap cooler hole. Could you do that with your tent?

[FIGJAM]

I think you mean duct in as you would just open a window to duct out.

Most tent have a double zipper on the door.

Set the cooler by the door when you want to use it and just zip closed around the duct.

It's so portable that you can set it inside when not in use.

[ck94901]

I think you mean duct in as you would just open a window to duct out.
Most tent have a double zipper on the door.
Set the cooler by the door when you want to use it and just zip closed around the duct.
It's so portable that you can set it inside when not in use.

Thanks Figjam.

I saw where the instructions said "You will need to vent the air out of the space for circulation." - problem is, the window mesh in my Springbar (Vagabond 7) does not unzip. I was planning on putting the swamp cooler in my tent....bad idea? I certainly have enough room (and this is one of the reasons I saved up for a big ass V-7). Can I just set it by one of the doors and run the duct outside when I want to use it? I can live with whatever dust gets in - dust always wins.

Again, thank you for your help AND for creating and sharing your s.c. instructions.

[FIGJAM]

The duct is where the cool air comes OUT of the cooler.

That's why the coolers (except the unicooler) have to sit outside the space being cooled.

[doober831]

WOW! That was a lot to take in. I'm not sure I've processed everything yet but all this info has been super helpful and has given me some ideas.

First off, I don't think that the bucket will fit underneath the bench hole. That was my initial idea but I did some measurements and it appears that the bucket is BARELY too big to fit in the space. I say appears because I haven't actually measure the space with the camper on the truck. It's quite a feat to get the camper on the truck and I'm putting it on next week so I'm waiting until then to find out for sure. IF the bucket fits I'll have to put it in place before i put the camper on and there will be no removing it while on the playa. I would be able to access the bucket through the bench hole for filling and whatever maintenance might be needed. I'm hoping the bucket fits because I think that setup would be ideal since the cold air would come in low and push out the hot air from the window above slowly filling the camper with cold air from the bottom up.

If the bucket doesn't fit (and I'd like to stick with the bucket design because I still do a fair amount of tent camping at music festivals and otherwise) then I'm liking the idea of putting the bucket inside a box IN the camper. I think the box with bucket inside would fit on the floor between the the benches and if pushed up against the front wall of the camper it would be underneath the table and mostly out of the way. I could duct the outside air into the box through one of the bench holes (or both holes, if the extra intake area is needed). The intake ducting would only need as much area and the total area the holes in the bucket provide, right? I'm wondering if some sort of plastic storage tote would work as an easy prefab box to contain the bucket. If I did this I could just have the straight septic connector pointed up at the table and the table would act to deflect the air out in all directions. If I wanted to pipe the air up top while sleeping then I could use some flexible drier hose. When not using the cooler I could just cap off the septic connector and no air would leak out as the cool air sinks.

Is is right to assume that if I just went with the straight connector shooting the air at the underside of the table the as the cool air filled the bottom and pushed hot air out the top that the cool air would eventually pool up all the way to the top? If so I'm not sure the ducting to the top would even be necessary.

Canoe, you've gone above and beyond...Thank you very much. And Fig, you've been great too!

I've got a feeling I've overlooked some of what was said but I'm still processing all the ideas that have been thrown around.

On a side note, Fig, can you tell me what the power requirement for the BatteryMinder is? My friends will have a Honda 1000 generator and I'm wondering if it'd work to charge my battery should I get hasty and run my battery down mid week. Also, any idea how long it would take to recharge the Costco 115 AH battery if I ran it down to 50%?

[fresh]

Hey Y'all!!! I am sure I could find an answer if I spent a half hour combing through this 70+ page thread, but figured i could get an easy answer. So I built classic FJ bucket cooler last year. Had powered off of smaller 12v batteries scavenged from old UPS units. This year I have more things I need to power, mainly some led string/rope lights(right now have 110v plug in, but can look into 12v replacements), small speakers(again 110v), and old android phone (for music), so I want to invest in a deep cycle battery. I can get one from work for wholesale price, not sure what aH, but i think it is about 200 ah. I obviously will have an inverter, but want as much on 12v as possible. SO my questions are this:

1) What would be the best fan to cool 10 x 10 kodiak canvas tent with as much power efficiency (I got free from old systems and have in hand):
Nidec va450 model v35141-35 2.2amp 26 watt 5,000 rpm 220 cfm 64.8dba
Nidec va350 model m33422-35 0.29 amp 3.48 watt 3,100 rpm 48 cfm 34.8dba
NMB-MAT model 4715KL 1.3 amp 15.6 watt 3600 rpm 130 cfm 50dba
DC model EFC0912BF 0.7 amp 8.4 watt ? 73.5 cfm ?

2) I am clueless to this, but how do you distribute 12v power, basically how do you hook up all the 12v stuff to battery? Do you need a distibution box?

3) Not sure how long battery would last alone. If I got a solar panel, how big do I have to go in order to keep battery charged? I know I need to add up the appox wattage of everything running on it, but if I can get those calcs again, I was looking in the thread forever yesterday.

4)Off topic, For the ducting, I got 25ft silver insulated expandable dryer duct, is this a good method or should I reconsider. Last year I used black plastic expandable duct from an a/c unit, worked fine, but it needed to be a bit longer.

Thanks for any help here!!!

[FIGJAM]

You have a lot going on there, but I'll answer what I can.

10'x10'x6' is 600 cubis feet of space to cool.

The 200 cfm fan will do a complete air exchange every 3 minutes which is fine although it draws more power than my 190 cfm for 1.25 amps.

As far as hooking mutiple items to the battery, get the cheapest power strip you can, cut the plug off, and add some clips to power it from the battery.

My playapod is connected somewhat like that, but instead of a power strip I have 3 household outlets in 3 locations on the pod.

One at the head of my bed, one next to the door for the cooler, and one outside the door for whatever.

[dragonpilot]

I have a Forest River R-Pod (http://www.forestriverinc.com/TravelTrailers/rpodwest/) and my cooler w/b on a stand next to the sliding window closest to the battery...and damned if I can find a way to remove the frickin' screen!...without tearing up the window frame. Anyone have this problem?

[FIGJAM]

Most travel trailers have screens with spring loaded frames so you can pop them out.

If not, look at how the screen is connected to the frame.

There is useally a slot in the frame with a rubber like cord pressed into it holding the screen material in place.

Find the end of that cord and you can pry it out with an ice pick to get it started, then pull the whole cord out.

This is easy to do, but you'll need a srceen tool to put it back in.

If the screen does'nt have its own frame, I would cut a hole the size I needed, then add velcro strip to the screen around the hole for a portable patch.

[fresh]

Thanks FIGJAM!!! Wow so all I really have to do jimmy rig a power strip?!?! I assume this just works for 12v usage and not 100v and you still need inverter for any of those devices??? Me confused? So i take the fan for swamp cooler, wire it up with plug and use power strip?

[FIGJAM]

Yes, but I don't use an inverter.

It's a good idea to have the inverter close to the batteries as the cables that go to a fair sized inverter are like jumper cable size.

How big is your inverter?

I have an inverter on my truck to run an electric jack hammer.

It's 3000/6000 watts and has DOUBLE cables to each terminal. ( I idle the truck when I use it or the batteries would be dead in an hour.)

Hook up the inverter to the battery.

Then clip the power strip to the battery and you should be good other than the recharge issue.

[dragonpilot]

Most travel trailers have screens with spring loaded frames so you can pop them out.
There is useally a slot in the frame with a rubber like cord pressed into it holding the screen material in place.
Find the end of that cord and you can pry it out with an ice pick to get it started, then pull the whole cord out.

Their service dept said pretty much the same thing, but that screen is NOT coming out unless I cut it out. I think what I'll have to do is slide it all the way open and then cut a piece of 1/4" plywood or a piece of plastic signage material (there's some local electioneering going on...heehee) to fit the opening and cut the hole for the pipe.