Tent and cover tips needed, please

[RemingtonRand]

This will be my first burn, and I will be attending alone.

I've been reading the posts and replies for a few weeks now, it's all starting to make sense. My question is about tent and shelter. Someone told about a setup that worked well for them last year to protect from sun and wind and dust. They used a basic tent that was setup inside of a Alcove canopy with walls (from REI). Sounds similar to what I read about monkey huts and car ports. But being alone, this is more doable by myself. And it fit my budget! So I set up my tent inside the canopy, only to realize that my tent is almost exactly the same size as the canopy, maybe a little wider at the base. This means that there is no space between the top and sides of the canopy and the top and sides of the tent. It's almost like a second rain fly. My little brain is telling me that the concept is to have some space (air) between the canopy and the tent. Also it seems like it would be nice to have an "alcove" area that is inside the canopy and walls, but not in my tent. Room for non-sleeping junk.

One advantage of my large tent in the canopy is that the tent covers up the bottom where the canopy walls don't reach the ground. Seems like a little extra sealing for dust. On the other hand, I suppose that I could secure the ground tarp to the sides of the canopy to get a similar seal, although not as tight.

My question: should I go get a cheap-o tent (on sale at Big 5 for $30) that is much smaller and use that inside the canopy?

Other question is about solar blankets.. I read another idea to take 6 solar blankets and attach them together to make a large cover to help cut the heat. The blankets are to cover the east wall for morning sun protection and then cover the top and some of the sides leaving the door open to the west. I did that, looks very secure and I think it will be a good thing. But here's where my pea brain gets confused. Do I put the solar blankets on top of the canopy, or between the canopy and the tent? My fear with it being on top is of course wind. I'm going to secure it as best I can but.... I've read enough stories to make me concerned. On the other hand, will the blanket do any good under the canopy? Someone suggested to clip it to the underside of the canopy so its attached to the ceiling of the canopy, but not laying on top of the tent.

I'll attach a photo of the blanket on the whole enchilada. Looks a bit like an alien space ship landed in my yard.

Any advice? Thanks.

[burner von braun]

.
Hey there, welcome to eplaya!



Whew! Now that we have that out of the way..

Yes, that air gap over the roof is important. Have you looked into monkey huts?

[RemingtonRand]

Thanks for confirming my suspicion about the air space. I've looked at monkey tents, but they seem like a bit of a challenge for a non do-it-yourselfer like myself. Maybe I should look some more....
Gracias!

[Lonesomebri]

How long do you plan to sleep in, in the morning, in your tent? You're gonna need about a foot of air flow between the tent and a shade shelter to make any difference. If you don't mind getting up in the morning, you could set the shade shelter next to that tent and sleep in the open under the shade during the day. Maybe set up a small tent under the shade shelter but bring the large one for gear and night sleeping. And the wind, I had a 10 x 20 shade shelter almost take flight while i hung on to it. Well, best of luck. You will have alot of friends out there.

[VultureChow]

Space is important, but honestly any "double wall" method is going to help out somewhat. I would be more concerned with the amount of rubbing that goes on between the awning and the tent. If there is significant taut movement between the tent pole sleeving and the shade, it can eat through one or both.

Do you have other shade just for chilling? If the shelter is nice and stable with some good guy lines, then maybe you are better off with that in front of the tent as a nice shaded area to nap in the open on a cot or good lounge chair.

[theCryptofishist]

Lose the space blankets. They will rattle in the wind and aren't particularly durable. And without that gap, they won't do much. Put one over or under your sleeping bag if you like.

[mudpuppy000]

The early morning sun is pretty hot already so you really want to have side shade. You can get that by putting your tent behind something large/tall (like a van/rv/etc) The canopy will help a little at noon, but it's still going to be toasty in there if you keep it sealed up.

BTW, that tent looks pretty tall, have you tested it in high winds? Larger tents can get flattened if they're not built well.

[Savannah]

How long do you plan to sleep in, in the morning, in your tent? You're gonna need about a foot of air flow between the tent and a shade shelter to make any difference. If you don't mind getting up in the morning, you could set the shade shelter next to that tent and sleep in the open under the shade during the day. Maybe set up a small tent under the shade shelter but bring the large one for gear and night sleeping. And the wind, I had a 10 x 20 shade shelter almost take flight while i hung on to it. Well, best of luck. You will have alot of friends out there.

I agree. Set up the canopy east of the tent, leave the tent at 8am and nap under the canopy in a lounge chair or spare cot. If you're poor at daytime napping, Remington, try not to pull all-nighters until you see how you fare. It doesn't make you a dork to hit the hay at 1am when you can go out dancing 24 hours a day.

I note that the tent is too tall to fit under a standard monkey hut anyway. You would need a smaller dome or a larger hut. I have seen only one scaled-up monkey hut, and the PVC was the same size as it is for the smaller ones--too slender for a taller version, and not tense enough to hold steady. It leaned. Changing the proportions is for an expert.

A hut is not as hard as it looks. Milayna set one up by herself last year(?) as a newbie. I remain impressed.

[theCryptofishist]

A hut is not as hard as it looks. Milayna set one up by herself last year(?) as a newbie. I remain impressed.

Hey! If it's so easy, why are you impressed?

[Savannah]

A hut is not as hard as it looks. Milayna set one up by herself last year(?) as a newbie. I remain impressed.

Hey! If it's so easy, why are you impressed?

Because she was new to it, and it's typically a two-person job. You have to hammer a lot of rebar (a bit tiring) then slip one end of the PVC onto the rebar, then bend that sucker pretty hard to slip it onto the other piece. It helps to have another set of hands.

It's not at all bad for two people. But even then it seemed to take Amanda and I about . . . 90 minutes . . . between measuring, hammering, erecting the PVC, putting on the tarp, bungeeing the tarp to the frame, and adding the guylines. That's a guess; it's been 4 years. It might have been closer to an hour.

[Boijoy]

I agree w/ Savanna. seperate the two. Use your tent to sleep at night & dress. then you can nap & hang out under your canopy during the day. bring extra chairs for visitors.
You should be able to sleep till about 9 or 10 am in the tent.

[Savannah]

I have to have a vehicle East of me in order to sleep 'til 9am. The sun can shine under my shade when it's low & has first risen, so--without a vehicle--I'm up at 7:30 or 8:00.

I love to block the East (Sun) and the South (the most wind). But not in that order.

[RemingtonRand]

Thanks everyone! It's great to have my suspicions confirmed, and to be reminded of (sometimes obvious) concerns. Based on your input, this is what I'm thinking (right now now - subject to the change of the moon's phase):

- I'll leave my nice large tent home, and instead get a cheap-o small tent that I can seal up for dust
- I don't know how late I'll be sleeping (sleep is my friend - but I'm going to play by ear on this one). I will put the small tent on the east side with side covering, and leave the west open for lounging.
- I will bring my lounge chair and an extra one for y'all to come visit. (great tip, thanks!)
- I'm pondering what to use for additional shade, but I'll keep it simple. Maybe another Alcove cover extending to the west?
- New question: I have several "easy up" shade structures from Costco. But I don't see any way to secure the cover to the flimsy structure. I'm thinking it's not suitable for the playa. Agreed?
- I'll use my Alcove cover with many, many guy lines and large stakes, and I'll pray to the wind gods to show mercy on my newbie soul
- I'll park my car on the south side
- I'll put the solar blankets inside the canopy, suspended from the ceiling, and hang one side down for the east morning sun. If this doesn't work, I'll pack it up for camping in the desert at home.

And yet another question: I've been asking about covering. But I'm assuming that I can stake down a large tarp for the ground. Is that a good idea? (we all know what assumption leads to....)

Again, many gracias for mucho good inputs.

[theCryptofishist]

The easy-ups, as I understand it, can be secured with enough rebar and ropes... I am not an expert. Not in the least.
And you almost had me telling you that CostCo Canopies/Carports are one of the standard BM structures. I'd have looked kinda goofy.

[mudpuppy000]

I've seen easy up's survive, but they were staked down and had guy lines all over. I've also brought one myself and had it destroyed in half a day, so YMMV.

You can also use tarps off of a tall vehicle to shade your tent too. That will likely scratch your paint up though.

This is what I brought my second year and it worked out great. You will have plenty of room for both your tent and lounging.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=1165471

[RemingtonRand]

Holy cow, mudpuppy. That tee pee looking thing looks awesome. I could probably call the vendor, but I'll ask you:
Would it protect from dust? Looks like a major part of it is screen. If so, I'm guessing it's primarily a shade and hang out space?

[mudpuppy000]

Yeah, not good for dust protection at all. It's nice as a shade structure and also blocks some of the wind, so you could get by with a larger tent.

If you do go with that, use heavy duty stakes/rebar to hold it down, the ones that come with it are pretty wimpy. Also, adding bungee balls inbetween the tent and the stakes will help keep it from ripping in high winds. Get a few ropes to "guy" it down as well.

[delle]

So.... why not put a small cheapie tent within your large tent, and close up all the windows and doors on the larger one only when you leave your camp (in case of winds, because obviously the smaller tent wouldn't be staked in there).

Looks tall and wide enough to have enough clearance all around to do the job....

[Ashtar]

- I will bring my lounge chair and an extra one for y'all to come visit. (great tip, thanks!)

Don't forget to stake those down, too, and on short enough chains that they aren't going to go flying into your tent. (alternately have a really good windbreak.)

And, no one burns alone. Tell your new neighbors it's your first burn and ask for help if you need to set up a structure like a monkey hut. Radical self reliance is one thing, but acting like you'll be in complete isolation from someone to help you pop up PVC arches is unrealistic, too. Just bring beer and bacon to share and don't expect other people to do the work *for* you (that part you seem to have covered, though).

[Savannah]

New question: I have several "easy up" shade structures from Costco. But I don't see any way to secure the cover to the flimsy structure. I'm thinking it's not suitable for the playa. Agreed?

EZ-Ups occasionally survive, but they are generally to be avoided. The accordion-like way they go up are the same means by which they easily crumple. Monkey huts and shade structures with flatter, non-folding ceilings do better.

[Lonesomebri]

I use a couple pop-ups along with a costco carport, but I tie those things down like they were Gulliver, rope crossed over the top and tied to fence posts. Up tight against the carport, rope and bungee cords every which way. One night in a windstorm, I went to tie the Carport tighter to my truck, undid the knot, and almost took off, hanging on to the carport as it lifted my feet off the ground, and shouting over the wind for help to tie it back on to the truck. Realizing how I had almost contributed to the community by rolling thru it, Camp Threat was born.

[Milayna]

How long do you plan to sleep in, in the morning, in your tent? You're gonna need about a foot of air flow between the tent and a shade shelter to make any difference. If you don't mind getting up in the morning, you could set the shade shelter next to that tent and sleep in the open under the shade during the day. Maybe set up a small tent under the shade shelter but bring the large one for gear and night sleeping. And the wind, I had a 10 x 20 shade shelter almost take flight while i hung on to it. Well, best of luck. You will have alot of friends out there.

I agree. Set up the canopy east of the tent, leave the tent at 8am and nap under the canopy in a lounge chair or spare cot. If you're poor at daytime napping, Remington, try not to pull all-nighters until you see how you fare. It doesn't make you a dork to hit the hay at 1am when you can go out dancing 24 hours a day.

I note that the tent is too tall to fit under a standard monkey hut anyway. You would need a smaller dome or a larger hut. I have seen only one scaled-up monkey hut, and the PVC was the same size as it is for the smaller ones--too slender for a taller version, and not tense enough to hold steady. It leaned. Changing the proportions is for an expert.

A hut is not as hard as it looks. Milayna set one up by herself last year(?) as a newbie. I remain impressed.

Thanks for the compliment Savannah! Made my day!!

I just wanted to chime in that a monkey hut really is do-able for one person with no help. It did probably take me 2 hours to set up, but I didn't have to do a single adjustment the WHOLE week (I set it up Sunday evening and stayed until Monday morning), and it was AMAZING shade. Also, I am not very experienced with tools or building things at all, I had to buy a multi tool, gloves, and sledgehammer just for the burn because I'd never used those things before!! I am absolutely doing it again this year. If you have any questions about the monkey hut plan I used or how I cut it down to 5 ft pieces please feel free to PM me!

[theCryptofishist]

Ah, we can't start a "Mileyna's Monkey Hut Building for Complete Beginners" thread?
Because I think we need more specialist vanity threads. Everyone who's currently posting and who has posted 10 times needs a thread. "Doc Pyro's RV: Questions and Horror Stories", "Savannah's: Nice: Always, Namby-Pampy: Never", "Lonesomebri's Hot Enough for You"...

[FIGJAM]

And don't forget "Cryptofishist: How to be a curmudgeon in three easy rotations!".

[Lonesomebri]

Not realizing which stage of the discussion we had reached on this post, Tent Tips, when I saw that FIGJAM had weighed in I thought, ahhh, now the big guns have arrived to answer the need...

[theCryptofishist]

Is that anything like tri tips?

[Sic Pup]

Did someone mention food or is that yet another poly reference?

@Delle - that's brilliant - nested tents ..... I bet one could go the way of those Russian dolls and sleep all week with that method.

[FIGJAM]

If you have the sewing skills and the rainfly covers most of the tent, use the rainfly as a pattern and make a new one out of aluminet!!!

Jewels of the playa.

[dragonpilot]

- I'll leave my nice large tent home, and instead get a cheap-o small tent that I can seal up for dust

Personally I like to have a large tent that I can stand up in and store extra gear and still have room for a mattress or cot. Small or large, you can't escape the dust...minimize, perhaps...but not escape. Take some time to cut some blanket sections to fit the overhead mesh, if any, and hand stitch them to the mesh...will help prevent dust from sifting down on you and your gear.

Lots of replies...did anyone mention pitching your tent behind a larger structure or box truck to catch the morning shade?

[Savannah]

- I'll leave my nice large tent home, and instead get a cheap-o small tent that I can seal up for dust

Personally I like to have a large tent that I can stand up in and store extra gear and still have room for a mattress or cot. Small or large, you can't escape the dust...minimize, perhaps...but not escape. Take some time to cut some blanket sections to fit the overhead mesh, if any, and hand stitch them to the mesh...will help prevent dust from sifting down on you and your gear.

Lots of replies...did anyone mention pitching your tent behind a larger structure or box truck to catch the morning shade?

He's gonna put his vehicle south to block the wind . . . but an "L" shape of vehicles (1 blocking South, 1 blocking East) would block [some] wind AND morning sun. I loved that combo last year.