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Simply Joel
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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:18 am

Q_ wrote:Defense against what?
IT'S A GAMBLE TO TRUST DEMOCRATS TO RUN WAR AGAINST TERROR
by John Leo

On his popular blog, Andrew Sullivan made this case for John Kerry: "9/11 has changed things -- even within the Democratic Party"; the war on terror "has to be a bipartisan affair"; Kerry clearly says he won't relent in that war; electing Kerry "would deny the Deaniac-Mooreish wing a perpetual chance to whine and pretend that we are not threatened."
These are serious arguments.

But consider the background music here. "Even within the Democratic Party" is an acknowledgment that a good many Americans don't trust the Democrats to run a war on terror. "Has to be a bipartisan affair" blinks the message that the Democrats, as a national party, often seem detached from that war, not just from the campaign in Iraq.

Many of the doubts that hover over Sullivan's case for Kerry are rooted in the value system widely shared among Democrats: Most people are basically good; wars are caused not by evil motives but by misunderstandings that can be talked out; conflict can be overcome by more tolerance and examining of our own faults or by taking disputes to the United Nations. As a personal creed, these benign and humble attitudes are admirable. As the foundation of a policy to confront terrorists who wish to blow up our cities, they are alarming.

These doubts explain why Kerry's two oddest verbal slips -- "nuisance" and "global test" -- have resonated. In both cases the senator said reasonable things. But the unfortunate term "global test" awakened the suspicion that leading Democrats care more about world opinion and the United Nations than about America's need to protect itself. "Nuisance" strongly implied an inability to be fully serious about terror. So did Kerry's trivializing comparison of terrorism with gambling and prostitution as problems we can't fully eradicate and must learn to live with.

A wider problem is that a strong segment of the Democratic Party now opposes basic American values once shared across the whole political spectrum. Lawrence Summers, Harvard president and a former Cabinet member in the Clinton administration, put this issue on the table when he criticized America's "coastal elites," i.e., the backbone of the Democratic Party, for disregarding mainstream values and urged Harvard to show respect for patriotism and the military. Kerry's people acknowledged Summers' critique when they turned the Democratic National Convention into an improbable flag-waving, pro-military pageant. But this was marketing, not conviction.

At the time of the first anti-war marches, Marc Cooper, contributing editor of the very left magazine The Nation, wrote with alarm that "the American left -- or at least a broad swath of it -- is more alienated from its own national institutions than its counterparts in any other developed nation." ... "What a warning signal," he wrote, "when you cannot tolerate the sight of your own flag."

Cooper warned that the perpetrators of 9/11 must not be viewed as avengers of some oppressed Third World constituency and complained that peace marches were sounding the theme that America somehow invited the 9/11 attacks.

Indeed, that blame-America attitude, once confined to the hard left, has been leaching into the soft left and the Democratic Party. A Pew survey last August reported that 51 percent of Democrats and 67 percent of liberal Democrats believe that America might have motivated the 9/11 attacks by doing something wrong or unfair in dealings with other nations. Admittedly, America's strong support for Israel may have influenced the poll. Still, it's astonishing that so many Democrats are willing to point a finger at their own country for the devastation of 9/11. In the poll, most Americans rejected this notion decisively, and Republicans rejected it overwhelmingly.

In Commentary magazine, Norman Podhoretz wrote of a "trickle-down effect" of virulent anti-Americanism. The anti-Iraq-war demonstrations were a grab bag of contradictory constituencies, many of which had nothing to do with war and peace. But they held out the promise that the hard and soft left, by refusing to criticize each other, could form a powerful alliance. So ordinary Democrats raised almost no objection to the many hate-America themes at these marches. (Few liberals and almost no reporters mentioned that the rallies were organized by unreconstructed communist-front groups and Maoist fans of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il.)

Some of the dumber themes -- Bush equals Hitler and no blood for oil -- moved into the mainstream left. Many stars in the Democratic firmament praised Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11," which carries some of these themes, including the belief that an evil alliance between the Saudis and the Bush family explains the war in Iraq.

Maybe Andrew Sullivan is right that electing John Kerry can bring the Democratic Party fully into the war on terror. But given the forces at work among Democrats, it's surely a gamble.

COPYRIGHT 2004 JOHN LEO

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:03 am

Okay Joel I can't help it:
Simply Joel wrote: Main Entry: per·so·na non gra·ta
Pronunciation: p&r-'sO-n&-"nän-'gra-t&, -'grä-
Function: adjective

...

DVD Burner has become a persona non grata these days on the e-playa.

tune in tomorrow for another new word and how it is used properly.[/img]
physician, heal thyself.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:05 am

(John Leo) wrote:IT'S A GAMBLE TO TRUST DEMOCRATS TO RUN WAR AGAINST TERROR
Yep, and we sure know the republicans are fucking up the job so why not give someone else a chance to do good? (same argument as the California Recall, eh? Shoe's on the other foot this time!)

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~

Post by sparkletarte » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:50 am

The guy honestly thinks Americans are stupid. Either that or he has no understanding of how our government works. A president can not make or change a law. He can not balance the budget and he can not make foreign governments suddenly find it in their interest to take part in our security issues.
Geeky, this is exactly what I would say...about Bush though! And you know what, a lot of people are stupid. Who else would vote for a guy who can't even pronounce common words properly? Who else would say that they would vote for a man simply because he believes in God so that's good enough for them? Who else would believe every piece of propaganda that comes out of the government's and news broadcasters' mouths? Who else believes that the people who flew the planes into the WTC are from Iraq (which approximately 50% of Americans do)? Who else would call someone who is articulate, and who pronounces words correctly, elitist and arrogant? I'm afraid there's a lot more stupid Americans- although perhaps brainwashed is a better word- than you think.

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Post by Rian Jackson » Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:59 am

i was driving along thinking about our political system yesterday
and it dawned on me:

the 'R' they put next to republicans' names stands for 'Rascal'
the 'D' is for 'Dumbass'

so, are you voting Rascal or Dumbass this year?
Well, I don't know, i mean the last Rascal leader really fucked things up, but i just can't see handing the government over to a Dumbass, even if they are pretty harmless.....
surlier than thou

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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:01 am

ya right...think like that as the rascal takes away your right to choose....
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

Rian Jackson
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Post by Rian Jackson » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:04 am

cowboyangel wrote:ya right...think like that as the rascal takes away your right to choose....
A) that was a hypothetical coversation, not necessarily my thoughts on the matter
2) read your history.
surlier than thou

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Post by Q_ » Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:29 am

Simply Joel wrote:
Q_ wrote:Defense against what?
IT'S A GAMBLE TO TRUST DEMOCRATS TO RUN WAR AGAINST TERROR
by John Leo
Try coming up with a reason by yourself instead of posting someone's blog. The Democrats are not going to let this country be taken over by anything, why, because they are just as greedy and they like having all the power. If you can prove to me that my life is in grave peril and that my death is waiting for me outside my door, and that voting for Bush will save my life, I would love to support him. But I don't think that you can. It is fear, fear is what they are using to get you to vote for them. Both parties. Fuck that shit, we don't need it. Voting for a democrat is not going to put your life in danger. But voting for Bush will give you a big puffy chest so that we can feel pride in ourselves that we can kick anyones ass on the planet.


Just for fun:
http://www.piratesandemperors.com/
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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:07 am

UUUmmmm,

who's John Leo?


am I to listen/belive all that this............person says? :shock:
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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:17 am

Q_ wrote: Just for fun:
http://www.piratesandemperors.com/
That was the funniest (and sadly, most accurate) statement I've seen in a long time.

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Alpha
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Post by Alpha » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:28 am

And this just says it all:

Image

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Re: I exist to blather other people's ideas and be an unpaid

Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:38 am

SIMPLY MEGAFONE MAN!!! wrote:You stupid lefties.

When will you put down your bongs and realize the right is right about everything?

That's why they're called the right, duuuh!
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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:44 am

Q_ wrote:
Just for fun:
http://www.piratesandemperors.com/
Just to further compliment this one:

http://www.ericblumrich.com/thanks.html
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Post by samtzu » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:00 am

Geekster wrote:
Kerry is a professional candidate that wins elections for a living.
... and let that sink deep down into your viscera. They (them? Not us?) are professionals whose primary job skill is to get your vote. Then, they just need to get big businesses, Special Interest Groups, etc., to provide them with funds to do that. This is their job.... oh, yeah... and "lawmaker", which I've gone into before (Good Law? Bad Law? Doesn't matter, just make a law!)

I still support a national draft to draw qualified people to serve; at the end of their term we vote, based on their performance, on whether or not they should be allowed to live. It would sure reduce the amount of yahoos in public office.
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:02 pm

Alpha wrote:And this just says it all:

Image
It fucking amazes me ( tons amaze me) of how this government can miss out on a shit load of explosives with all the techno goodies it has. Either they are full of shit or incompetent.


Somebodies lying again. Damn! :?
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Post by samtzu » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:16 pm

DVD Burner wrote:
Alpha wrote:And this just says it all:

Image
It fucking amazes me ( tons amaze me) of how this government can miss out on a shit load of explosives with all the techno goodies it has. Either they are full of shit or incompetent.

Somebodies lying again. Damn! :?
In my experience, they are both... and the bookeeping in the miltitary is not the best. The stuff may still be there, but they can't figure out where there is. Probably at a radar instillation in Alaska, where the supply clerk is thinking "What the fuck am I supposed to do with this?"
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:22 pm

:lol:

I would feel sorry for the guys over there fighting (Hey my brother is there.....not fighting of course just being greedy.) but man, They are gonna get real hurt with that stuff cause you know it's gonna be used on them. :lol:

Hey, They like being macho and fighting a lot.

Let's get the enemy! Lets kick some Iraqi ....woops...BOOM!
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Post by Alpha » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:31 pm

Just for the record DVD, yeah that was in poor taste.

(They ARE gonna get it and I weep for their families)

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:35 pm

Alpha wrote:Just for the record DVD, yeah that was in poor taste.

(They ARE gonna get it and I weep for their families)
Look,

I understand what I say may offend people but reality is a bitch. As I've said My brother is over there.

It's time to put some kick ass reality into people to let them know this is no joke.

People on both sides are getting fucked up over some assholes telling some big ass lies and getting away with it.

I have no problems being the only one that has any balls to put it how it really is.

FUCKED UP.
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Post by samtzu » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:49 pm

DVD Pontificated:
I have no problems being the only one that has any balls to put it how it really is.
Yeah, it's a lonely job.... thank God you're there watching out for the rest of us...
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:57 pm

samtzu wrote:DVD Pontificated:
I have no problems being the only one that has any balls to put it how it really is.
Yeah, it's a lonely job.... thank God you're there watching out for the rest of us...
That did'nt come out right. I realized it too late.

:lol:

what I meant to say is if I gotta be the only one to be blunt and tell it like it is then so be it.

Life is nasty.........not all the time........well nasty can be kinda fun......



Heck you know what I mean.
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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:10 pm

DVD Burner wrote:Heck you know what I mean.
quite an assumption on your part.

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:13 pm

Simply Joel wrote:
DVD Burner wrote:Heck you know what I mean.
quite an assumption on your part.

See now Joel knows what I mean. He knows I like him and that I would not like to see him go to Iraq for some stupid people that are making huge mistakes.

I'm like that for everyone I care about and make the realities as real as I can to get my point across.
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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:17 pm

BTW the republicans that represent him wont do or even say that.
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Post by Simply Joel » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:30 pm

how about you worry about yourself, and leave me out of your concerns.

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:31 pm

Simply Joel wrote:how about you worry about yourself, and leave me out of your concerns.
As you wish.


Got no problem with that. :lol:
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Post by cowboyangel » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:04 pm

Joel and DVD, come here this instant and kneel down in separate corners, each of you now, and pray to God for wisdom and forgiveness!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981

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Post by DVD Burner » Mon Oct 25, 2004 6:07 pm

I forgot about that anthrax scare.........


That's right.



Hhmmmmm! :?
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Post by DVD Burner » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:18 am

I'm sure you all wont be able to figure it out but hey.......seeems you all are a bunch of whimps.


Care to meet me and tell me to my face that I dont know what I'm talking about? :shock:


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Post by Simply Joel » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:41 am

cowboyangel wrote:Joel and DVD, come here this instant and kneel down in separate corners, each of you now, and pray to God for wisdom and forgiveness!
two points...


i don't require forgiveness and any wisdom i attain, i attain from within.

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