Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

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BBadger
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Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by BBadger » Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:21 am

So the JRS posts this today:

ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS

Lasers are by no means toys. They can cause blindness, fires and other problems if set up improperly or if the incorrect equipment is used. Remember to install and use lasers in such a way that they avoid eye level as the beam can temporarily or permanently blind people.

***New for 2013: All laser projects on playa that use Class 3B or Class 4 lasers need to be operated by a laser professional that has the appropriate training, insurance and experience to safely manage the laser installation. Since most laser projects on playa use lesser classes of laser this won't affect many projects. Thankfully, all the projects who reported having high powered lasers already met this new guideline as part of their design and we appreciate those who were proactive in safely managing their lasers. If you're not sure about laser classes, check out...




It's good that BM is taking laser safety seriously, but the above emphasized sentence is either painfully ignorant, or purposely disingenuous.

Most, if not all, laser projects on the playa will use Class 3b lasers unless it's some big array of little lasers. Laser projects want to show off big lasers, not dinky laser pointers which Class 3a/3r lasers are. Most handheld lasers people carry are also Class 3b or greater. Even in the dust, virtually any laser that you can clearly see the beam from a ways distant is going to be 3b or greater.

Let me be clear that I love lasers, and the lasers at Burning Man are awesome. The remoteness and "lawlessness" of Burning Man means you'll see lasers being used in ways that are normally not allowed. It's extremely cool, but if the law starts to clamp down they may become a bit rarer outside the professionally operated installation, or the lasers that are used under the radar.

Cold hard facts:
  1. Laser Light Show regulations:
    • Laser light shows need actual documentation to be legal, not just some laser professional with training and insurance. If the person is truly a professional, all the documentation will be in order prior to the event.
    • I'm really skeptical that many of these installations or operators meet the guidelines and have done measurements/calculations at the venue. I bet few have even filed for FAA variance for their outdoor lasers (the One Mile Clock guy mentioned they tried). There are probably some, but as the event often flies under the radar for some things like this, and there are few people even aware of such procedures, they're probably not carried out.
  2. Laser Classes:
    • Class 3a/3r is defined as < 5mW for visible wavelengths. This is considered "eyesafe" because your eyes won't suffer permanent damage before your blink reflexes come in to play.
    • Class 3b can cause permanent eye damage before your blink reflect can block the beam. Class 4 lasers (considered 500mW or above) present an environmental hazard in addition to the eye hazard -- i.e. you better know where the beam goes or it may cause fires or damage.
    • Some laser products containing lasers > Class 3a/3r might be considered eyesafe because they pass through diffraction gratings (those animated multi-pattern generators people shine on the ground) that spread the beams out, or they're fully enclosed (like your DVD burner). Higher-powered lasers that are spread out are also eye-safe if they're ensured that they are kept spread out at the distances that they interact with people.
    • The purpose of the laser safety operator at a laser show is to ensure that the normally eye-unsafe lasers that are used are calculated/measured safe at the distances that they interact with the audience (e.g. Class 1 laser exposure levels for audience scanning) -- or in some cases do not interact with the audience at all, as often lasers must be kept 3 meters above peoples' heads.
  3. Non-eyesafe lasers you see at Burning Man:
    • Nearly every green laser you see on the playa, or for that matter anywhere, is going to be considered Class 3b or higher. Why? Because it actually costs more to put in power-limiting circuitry on those green lasers and they're almost always overspec due to poor manufacturing tolerances. Even the cheapest $7 "5mW" green laser you can buy from Amazon.com measures about 15mW-40mW in power (I've personally verified this). Expect that any cheap green laser point you buy will produce eye-hazardous amounts of power; they are not appropriate for classrooms, especially on shiny whiteboards.
    • EVERY blue laser you see on the playa is a Class 3b, and more likely, a Class 4 laser -- well, unless someone brought a DPSS blue or an argon but it'd still probably be Class 3b regardless. The blue diode lasers will not even begin to lase under 150mW or so unless someone bought one of the more exotic low-power blue diode lasers that are still Class 3b. These blue lasers were designed to operate at around 1W of power, and most are built to produce that much power, if not more (1.6W to 2.2W is not uncommon).
    • Every red laser beam you can really see is going to be Class 3b or higher. Red wavelengths are hard to see; it'll definitely have to be powerful to be visible.
    • Most laser products people buy such as diffraction projectors, pointers, etc. are illegal to import because they are not Class 3a products, and more importantly, do not have an FDA accession number which would only be provided if the product met standards. The projectors that are certified (the ones that shops in the US can actually sell) are usually quite expensive compared to whatever people get from China.
So what are we going to do? Well, maybe just let it slide until some laser incident occurs and lasers receive some negative attention. So make sure that if you do use lasers that you do whatever you can to ensure people don't get hurt with them, or we may all lose the sight (maybe even physically) of lasers at Burning Man!
"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by Sic Pup » Thu Aug 08, 2013 5:55 am

Thanks for the clarification/education, BBadger.
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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by some seeing eye » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:03 am

I know something about lasers, I do not believe the event should wait until someone is injured to have a policy. That's why I among others urged that a policy be created, and that's why I support it.

The problem spans the EDM industry. The EDM industry is growing and the import of uncertified laser devices, components and the DIY movement is creating an expanding safety issue. I value my vision.

*EDM = electronic dance music


Most people on this board subscribe to the Jack Rabbit Speaks emails. If not the full note is below.

Lasers are by no means toys. They can cause blindness, fires and other problems if set up improperly or if the incorrect equipment is used. Remember to install and use lasers in such a way that they avoid eye level as the beam can temporarily or permanently blind people.

***New for 2013: All laser projects on playa that use Class 3B or Class 4 lasers need to be operated by a laser professional that has the appropriate training, insurance and experience to safely manage the laser installation. Since most laser projects on playa use lesser classes of laser this won't affect many projects. Thankfully, all the projects who reported having high powered lasers already met this new guideline as part of their design and we appreciate those who were proactive in safely managing their lasers. If you're not sure about laser classes, check out:

http://www.lasermet.com/resources/class ... erview.php

If you are going to have a laser set up on playa and no one in your camp is a laser professional consider these tips:

* Use the lowest class laser and use it at the lowest power setting to reasonably accomplish your desired effect.
* Treat laser operations as a serious safety matter.
* Ensure all operators are sober.
* Designate someone to monitor the laser to make sure your lasers are being operated safely.
* If your laser operates automatically or without an operator, have someone monitor the system so they can shut it down if necessary.
increasing the signal to noise ratio with compassion

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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by ygmir » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:53 am

great advice and info, thanks guys.
I got so pissed, some guy was flashing people, and me, with a green laser. made a flash in my eye, didn't injure me, but I did explain my thoughts.......of course, it was a bunch of frat boys, all laughing and saying "sorry man, it's low power and wont hurt anyone, Chill out".....
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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:18 am

Did you offer the "Free laser rectal exam"? 8)
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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by ygmir » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:29 am

FIGJAM wrote:Did you offer the "Free laser rectal exam"? 8)
I think you have that confused with your esthetician and laser anal hair removal?
don't tell me you bleach, too!!
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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by DrewDubious » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:34 am

ygmir wrote:laser anal hair removal?


Dem pesky anal hairs :lol:

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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 08, 2013 9:35 am

I need that wild hair right where it is thank you!!!
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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by lemur » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:04 am

YEAH

and while theyre at it, could they turn the music down?

ending up deaf AND blind is not on my list of 'what to do at burning man'
Don't link to anything here!

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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by DrewDubious » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:15 am

lemur wrote:YEAH

and while theyre at it, could they turn the music down?

ending up deaf AND blind is not on my list of 'what to do at burning man'

Didn't you bring ear/eye protection? Wheres the self reliance! :wink:

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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by trilobyte » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:53 am

If only there was some kind of information at the bottom of the email directing you where to send questions or issues...

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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by lemur » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:55 am

i bring ear protection.. i suffered an ear injury at an unrelated event in 2006 and cant be around loud noise without it.


but eye protection!!! omg... i need some of those sweet laser blocking glasses that look like the kind little old grannies wear!


for many years a camp that did all sortsa awesome laser stuff was place right next to us.. they had a few neato interactive things you could control and then this big honkin huge laser that went like 15 feet up out to the man at around lantern height.. sure was a good way to find yer way home on the dusty/disorienting nights
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Re: Misinformation in "ART WITH FRICKIN' LASERS"

Post by Simon of the Playa » Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:58 am

[media]
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