Burning Man 2013: Lovelock

[1durphul]

I heard that as a result of the police harassment making the existing location untenable we're moving the location for Burning Man 2013 to Lovelock.

With all their police at BRC, we can assume that Lovelock will be a true autonomy zone.

[DrewDubious]

Does it really qualify as "harassment" if you're doing something illegal?

[1durphul]

Does it really qualify as "harassment" if you're doing something illegal?

it does when every drug dog "hits" on every vehicle pulled over. I personally will have nothing illegal, and take extra care not to break any laws on the way to the event this year. I'll even be moving the license plate off the trunk and onto the bike rack (sigh so don't want to go through that effort...) God damn I hope my license doesn't fall off somehow as a result of being on the bike rack. So not happy about having to move it from the relatively secure location to somewhere less secure, but more visible.

[DrewDubious]

(sigh so don't want to go through that effort...)

I think that just about sums it up.

[1durphul]

(sigh so don't want to go through that effort...)

I think that just about sums it up.

It isn't a ton of effort, it is just an unnecessary 20-30 minutes on an already busy day. Not to mention the risk of losing the plate is greatly increased by having it held to something that wasn't designed to hold it.

[DrewDubious]

(sigh so don't want to go through that effort...)

I think that just about sums it up.

It isn't a ton of effort, it is just an unnecessary 20-30 minutes on an already busy day.

it takes you that long to relocate a license plate?

[1durphul]

It isn't a ton of effort, it is just an unnecessary 20-30 minutes on an already busy day.

it takes you that long to relocate a license plate?

Locating screwdriver, 2-3 mins, walking to vehicle from wherever screwdriver is kept 1 min, undoing screws 2-3 minutes, remembering you'll need wire, oh, I don't have any wire, 1 hour later after a drive to ACE, securing bikerack (not including in estimate), put bikes on, using wire to attach the thing 2-3 mins, attaching an LED to something that has a proper angle to light it without obstructing it 3 hours.

So, looks like this is actually a 4+ hour job.

I forgot the part where I passed out from sunstroke because this is all happening in a casino parking lot in Reno 2 days in hospital.

This is like a 3 day thing, minimum.

[DrewDubious]

Actually, just wait till I arrive in Reno and I will do it for you in like... 2 minutes. Be there saturday night / sunday morning.

[1durphul]

just use zip ties

Ah, good idea! I'm still not sure exactly how to secure the LED. But now that I think about it, if I have two bikes on the rack, I can put the license plate hanging from the first bike's cross bar, and then the LED can hang from the second bikes cross bar facing the license. That should work.

[tatonka]

remember you wont have a liense plate light , go in at day time .

[BBadger]

Just the other day I saw someone's bike rack with the lower supports pressing ON the license plate itself. My first thoughts were "damn, that dude would be pulled over immediately (and with good reason in this case) out near BRC."

[knowmad]

So, looks like this is actually a 4+ hour job.

sad.

[1durphul]

So, looks like this is actually a 4+ hour job.

sad.

Knowmad, you've really got it in for me. It was obviously not meant to be a serious time estimate.

[Elorrum]

I manged to get in and out with an obscured rear license. thinking on it now, if I had moved the plate, (will do, next year) I would also use the bike's headlight as illumination, moving it to a part of the bike pointing at the re-located plate.

[Thecatman]

Yesterday while driving back from Utah we stopped at Stugeons casino in Lovelock to hit the outhouse.
We continued west on the main E/W street through Lovelock. Some burners returning to defaultia were staying
at a motel in Lovelock. That was great. Kind of an in-your-face to Pershing county.

I would also use the bike's headlight as illumination

You (and anybody else who might think of doing that) probably want to do some homework on that.
As practical as it may seem, it MIGHT not be legal. And probably isn't. And as nitpickn that the LEOs are??
Yesterday I saw a burner on Main St in Fernley and they had the license plate mounted on the horizontal bar (a boys bike) of the bike
and wired a plate light from the taillight to illuminated their plate.

[1durphul]

Yesterday while driving back from Utah we stopped at Stugeons casino in Lovelock to hit the outhouse.
We continued west on the main E/W street through Lovelock. Some burners returning to defaultia were staying
at a motel in Lovelock. That was great. Kind of an in-your-face to Pershing county.

I would also use the bike's headlight as illumination

You (and anybody else who might think of doing that) probably want to do some homework on that.
As practical as it may seem, it MIGHT not be legal. And probably isn't. And as nitpickn that the LEOs are??
Yesterday I saw a burner on Main St in Fernley and they had the license plate mounted on the horizontal bar (a boys bike) of the bike
and wired a plate light from the taillight to illuminated their plate.

And sadly next year if we all move our license plates so they are clearly visible with bike racks, they'll just think of some new thing to use to pull people over. It is harassment, pure and simple, and personally I'm a little peeved that the BORG hasn't filed suit over it. I understand they don't want an antagonistic relationship with the BLM, but they are taking that neutral stance at the expense of the participants of the event (including DPW). Would Disney stand by and let the Anaheim police pull over, search, and harass park attendees? Would Reno's city council stand by if Washoe County Sheriff treated the rib cookoff attendees with the same level of harassment as Burning Man attendees get?

[1durphul]

*delting duplicate post*

[BBadger]

And sadly next year if we all move our license plates so they are clearly visible with bike racks, they'll just think of some new thing to use to pull people over. It is harassment, pure and simple, and personally I'm a little peeved that the BORG hasn't filed suit over it. I understand they don't want an antagonistic relationship with the BLM, but they are taking that neutral stance at the expense of the participants of the event (including DPW). Would Disney stand by and let the Anaheim police pull over, search, and harass park attendees? Would Reno's city council stand by if Washoe County Sheriff treated the rib cookoff attendees with the same level of harassment as Burning Man attendees get?

Except in clear cases of abuse and harassment, there probably wouldn't be much chance of a meaningful lawsuit. It's not like they're setting up illegal checkpoints, or speed traps or something like that. The extra law enforcement fees were one thing; the actual enforcement is another. The latter has often been considered to have gotten better these past years.

Disney and the rib-cookoff don't attract much attention because they're not like Burning Man, and they don't attract the same type of crowd that is expected of an event like Burning Man. Those companies are also localized, so any complaints get filed at the geographic point of interest. Burning Man doesn't have as much pull with local representatives as they're not vital to the economy of the area that they set up shop. Sure, the event brings in a decent amount of money for Reno, but for Pershing County? The police busts are probably the real money maker for that. The BLM also doesn't have to care about negative feedback, as the greater society is generally indifferent or unsympathetic to this event.

To that end, for an event that attracts tens of thousands of people, there are relatively few police incidents that occur. Considering the traffic density, I wonder if the incidents are even out of line with the average anyway. Many of the reasons for pull-overs are excuses, but in general people aren't getting pulled over left and right.

[1durphul]

Disney and the rib-cookoff don't attract much attention because they're not like Burning Man, and they don't attract the same type of crowd that is expected of an event like Burning Man.

IANAL: I suspect that this right here would be the basis for the lawsuit: basing law enforcement action on the "type of crowd that is expected" indicates the crowd has been targeted for being unpopular, their right to assemble freely (without government harassment) is jeopardized by that targeting.

...but in general people aren't getting pulled over left and right.

I heard enough stories of people being pulled over for license plates this year that I suspect any individual entering this event was more likely to be pulled over upon entry by a factor of several hundred than at any other point along their drive. (I spoke to no less than 3 people who were pulled over for this reason, and witnessed a couple pull overs on the gate road on early entry saturday).

[Simon of the Playa]

having entered/left BRC Twice, i can truthfully say the Police Actions on the gate road and inside BRC were heavy-handed, Fascistic and fucking Mean.

i have never seen this type of bullshit in the 17 years i've been attending.

a big fat serious Fuck You goes out to all who "Participated" in this "Crack-Down"...

whatever respect i had for you is gone.


nice job, assholes.

[BBadger]

IANAL: I suspect that this right here would be the basis for the lawsuit: basing law enforcement action on the "type of crowd that is expected" indicates the crowd has been targeted for being unpopular, their right to assemble freely (without government harassment) is jeopardized by that targeting.

You don't have to be unpopular to be targeted. It could just be easy pickings, a higher value-for-effort ratio (e.g. expectation to bust someone on drug possession), or just a larger population of targets.

Think of a herd animals and predators. A larger group means more prey to hunt, the targets are usually those who stand out of the crowd (license plate stuff), and some individuals are easy prey because they go down so easily. It doesn't mean the prey is unpopular though.

People are also allowed to assemble freely, but the police are just, well.. more "aware" of things and more willing to check. In other circumstances/events there may not be as much attention to details.

Don't get me wrong: I don't like the extra police presence, but I don't think there is really a case here to bring against them, because they're rarely doing anything illegal, but just being abnormally diligent about enforcing what they can within the law.

I heard enough stories of people being pulled over for license plates this year that I suspect any individual entering this event was more likely to be pulled over upon entry by a factor of several hundred than at any other point along their drive. (I spoke to no less than 3 people who were pulled over for this reason, and witnessed a couple pull overs on the gate road on early entry saturday).

Care to qualify those figures? Maybe the police reports have something to offer? I dunno.

I wasn't there, but the amount of complaints, at least here on the board (which isn't official), doesn't seem to really reflect a widespread problem that affected huge swaths of people. Anecdotal evidence here and there doesn't indicate a real trend. In fact, it seems more like people found the police presence has become less oppressive over the past two years.

I think that's the real problem here: if these are just sporadic problems, especially if these fines/arrests were legitimate (i.e. the person confessed to having drugs), it's a hard case to bring to a judge claiming the police are overreaching their limits. It's the cases that peaceful gatherings were broken up, or entire cars emptied in a bad "drug hit" or stuff like that which legitimatizes these lawsuits -- not that people got caught for being stupid and are pissed that they were.

[1durphul]

I think that's the real problem here: if these are just sporadic problems, especially if these fines/arrests were legitimate (i.e. the person confessed to having drugs), it's a hard case to bring to a judge claiming the police are overreaching their limits. It's the cases that peaceful gatherings were broken up, or entire cars emptied in a bad "drug hit" or stuff like that which legitimatizes these lawsuits -- not that people got caught for being stupid and are pissed that they were.

I would love to file an FOIA request for the dash cams of all BLM vehicles used to pull over people upon entering the event. I bet that when K9 units are used they "hit" at nearly 100% of the time, and then would be even more interested to see the subsequent failure to locate drugs in the ensuing search. Sadly, I don't have the money it would cost to fulfill such a request.

[Major Krash]

I think that's the real problem here: if these are just sporadic problems, especially if these fines/arrests were legitimate (i.e. the person confessed to having drugs), it's a hard case to bring to a judge claiming the police are overreaching their limits. It's the cases that peaceful gatherings were broken up, or entire cars emptied in a bad "drug hit" or stuff like that which legitimatizes these lawsuits -- not that people got caught for being stupid and are pissed that they were.

I would love to file an FOIA request for the dash cams of all BLM vehicles used to pull over people upon entering the event. I bet that when K9 units are used they "hit" at nearly 100% of the time, and then would be even more interested to see the subsequent failure to locate drugs in the ensuing search. Sadly, I don't have the money it would cost to fulfill such a request.

do a "Kickstarter".....

[BBadger]

I would love to file an FOIA request for the dash cams of all BLM vehicles used to pull over people upon entering the event. I bet that when K9 units are used they "hit" at nearly 100% of the time, and then would be even more interested to see the subsequent failure to locate drugs in the ensuing search. Sadly, I don't have the money it would cost to fulfill such a request.

That would be interesting information. I do wonder, however, whether it would turn up anything. After all, how many times have we read of K9 hits where the car was turned inside out but no contraband was found, or some bogus charge was trumped up? Most of what I've read is that there is a "hit" and the occupants of said car crumble under pressure and give up their bag of weed. Either that or there's some more severe punishment, but that there was still contraband in the car.

I definitely think the police are being a bit zealous in their duties, but just the fact that a large number of people get pulled over for stuff like obscured license plates isn't enough to file a lawsuit over. The volume of vehicles during this event, and the increased police presence alone may explain that. A strong case would be if there was something like an illegal checkpoint where everyone gets stopped without any probable cause. Though many would like to argue that the officer simply "smelling pot" is not probable cause, that's a grey area that probably would still hold up in court.

[zeigen]

I arrived at Gerlach Monday night 10pm. I was pulled over shortly after leaving the pavement. The reason he pulled me over was an expired registration -- which was true. I had paid my registration a couple of weeks before (plus the late fee) but the new tags hadn't arrived in time. (They did arrive during the burn and are on my car now.)

The officer who pulled me over was polite, but offered me this bargain: "If you admit to having drugs, I'll give you a citation and you'll be in the event in 20 minutes." (NOTE: Entry line was four hours long at that point.) He continued, "But, if I get my K9 dog out here to do a sniff and we find drugs, you'll be arrested and returned to Reno."

My response was robotic to every question: No sir, I have no drugs on my person or in my vehicle. No sir, I do not consent to a search.

He informed me that the K9 unit would do a walk around my vehicle, which happened. I was not carrying anything illegal. Afterwards, the officer and I agreed we had never seen a more bored-looking police dog. He politely let me on my way without a citation for the expired tag.

I don't personally ever carry drugs, and was damn glad of that fact on the way in two Mondays ago.

[BBadger]

My response was robotic to every question: No sir, I have no drugs on my person or in my vehicle. No sir, I do not consent to a search.

He informed me that the K9 unit would do a walk around my vehicle, which happened. I was not carrying anything illegal. Afterwards, the officer and I agreed we had never seen a more bored-looking police dog. He politely let me on my way without a citation for the expired tag.

Simply excellent!

[1durphul]

My response was robotic to every question: No sir, I have no drugs on my person or in my vehicle. No sir, I do not consent to a search.

*slow clap* Bravo sir! Standing up for your rights! You sir get +1 internets for having a spine!

[BBadger]

Though now that I think about it, he shouldn't have made any statements about having or not having drugs -- only just refused the search.

[zeigen]

Yeah, I wasn't sure what to do when he point-blank asked me if I had drugs on me or in the vehicle. I suppose I could have responded with, "Am I being arrested?" but I was a bit flustered at the time.

[BBadger]

Yeah, it's hard to suppress the urge to just answer the question truthfully and that feeling that if you don't answer that it shows that you have something to hide. It just runs counter to how most of us think.

Still, at least you were thinking.