Doomed Relationships

III · Post by **III** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:43 pm

>nothin sez "i love you" like a loaded ak-47

you hear that honey? now you know what to get me for my birthday!

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:50 pm

> I'm totally available for tutoring and consultation if you need to ramp
> up on your asshole skills....

It's interesting. I was discussing with a friend yesterday another mutual
friend who's trying to become more assertive. Somehow, though, he
thinks that asshole=assertive. I'll agree that most assholes are assertive
(though not all), but most assertive people are not assholes. It's a fine
line to walk.

Me, I just try to stay on the side of asshole.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:51 pm

> now you know what to get me for my birthday!

Okeydoke. I'll just stop in the 'hood on the way home from work, roll down
my window, and ask the first black guy I see if he can get me one, yo.
Think that'll work?

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 5:55 pm

sure. and i bet if you ask real nice, you could also score a vial of crack.
it is for his birthday, after all.

deeohgeeman · Post by **deeohgeeman** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:02 pm

I was going to go to Burning Man five years ago, but my car broke down, and I took the opportunity to date and get to know better a gal I had met shortly before. Before the end of the year we had gone to Tahiti together.

I should have found a way to get to burning man instead.

Clues that I shoulda known better:

She wrote for two of the worst television shows I'd ever seen in my life (Roseanne and Married with Children)

She was a self-proclaimed wine snob and food snob. Which I have to say is different than being a 'foodie', though we did eat very well. Wasn't even willing to try my homemade wine.

III · Post by **III** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:04 pm

>he thinks that asshole=assertive.

i suspect that asshole is in the eye of the beholder. (i just wanted to say "asshole is in the eye", once).

it's probably like the bitch thing, where women claim they're called a bitch when they're being assertive, not realizing that they've walked over the line.

me, i walk over the line all the time. but it's usually with people i don't want to deal with in the first place, and i find it makes them go away.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:05 pm

deeohgeeman wrote:She was a self-proclaimed wine snob and food snob. Which I have to say is different than being a 'foodie', though we did eat very well. Wasn't even willing to try my homemade wine.

barbarian.

precipitate · Post by **precipitate** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:06 pm

> i suspect that asshole is in the eye of the beholder.

Yeah. But overreacting, calling people names, and questioning their basic
intelligence and humanity tends to be perceived as asshole by most
people. YMMV.

clandyone · Post by **clandyone** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:10 pm

Signs the relationship was doomed...

He didn't know what I was talking about. Ever.

He had this hyper-alert, sensitive, bright-eyed countenance, which for a long time obscured the fact that he was as dumb as paint.

The following exchange took place frequently:
Me: honey, what's wrong?
He: NOTHING. (Although there was PRETTY CLEARLY SOMETHING WRONG.)

I love passive aggression so very much.

PJ · Post by PJ » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:10 pm

princess strych-9 wrote:nothin sez "i love you" like a loaded ak-47

If you really meant it, you'd have a bayonet on it.

PJ · Post by PJ » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:51 pm

I met Kinetic, and my first impressions did not include any hints he's the sort of person that attracts drama.

Maybe it's a passing thing.

PJ · Post by PJ » Tue Sep 16, 2003 6:52 pm

It's worth mentioning that crazy women are often really, really great at sex.

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:06 pm

>>nothin sez "i love you" like a loaded ak-47

Seems like he needs something that says "I don't love you." What's the opposite of a loaded ak-47?

PJ · Post by PJ » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:09 pm

Booker wrote:What's the opposite of a loaded ak-47?

An unloaded, dirty, rusty, Chinese SKS. Actually, a loaded one that's received decent care is just as likely to misfire in my experience.

Booker · Post by **Booker** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:13 pm

Naw, I'm thinkin' a can of soup. Give her a can of soup and say, all excited like, "Look honey! I gotcha sumthin'!" Then watch expectantly for the thrilled reaction you just know has to be coming any minute now. If that doesn't drive her away, then really, just run dude.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:38 pm

Ignore their threats of suicide. There is a big difference between those who THREATEN to commit suicide (they want attention) and those who actually do it.

I totally totally TOTALLY DISAGREE.

DO NOT ignore a threat of suicide. Yes, I agree, it is absolutely a cry for attention. I'm not advocating babying them or taking them back if they start talking like that, but get them help. Although a low percentage of people who threaten suicide actually go through with it, some do.

Give them the suicide hotline number. refer them to a good therapist, if you know one, or someone else for them to talk to. If you ignore them, it may only encourage them to take a more drastic approach.

I don't advocate taking them to the ER or hospitalizing them, I am firmly against that, but if it comes down to it, do what you ahve to. But don't ever ignore it.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:58 pm

I agree with Ivy. If you ignore it and they go through with it you can feel like shit forever.

And I would advocate the ER. If you ain't got the skillz to save 'em hand 'em over to someone who does ASAP.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:01 pm

And I would advocate the ER.

Have you ever been taken to the ER or admitted to a hospital for pyschological problems?

I don't advocate it except as an extremely last result.

If you're not fucked up when you're admitted, you will be when you're discharged, I can almost guarantee it.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:10 pm

No Ivy - and it's totally possible I'm wrong.

All I know is I lost someone dear to me ... and it sure as shit didn't help that I advocated the wrong course of action.

He couldn't have bought the gun in a hospital.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:12 pm

PJ wrote:It's worth mentioning that crazy women are often really, really great at sex.

A very valid point....but these women want kids, and the quicker the better. They feel their biological clock at 29 and 30 is ticking so loud that everyone around them can hear it. Anyway you wear protection, they find ways to sabotage it. And keep in mind the Coke incident I mentioned as I say that. If I play, I play responsibly, these women don't.

Ivy's got a point about suicide threats. I would point them towards some help. "C" last night said something about suicide and I'm like no guy on earth is worth anything like that. She saw the reax and it quickly snapped her out of it before I could mention counseling or help. Then she tried a new angle and again I'm afraid of hurting her and the mess continued...until her friend came and said let's go. She saved me from even more grilling.

PJ wrote:I met Kinetic, and my first impressions did not include any hints he's the sort of person that attracts drama.

Maybe it's a passing thing.

The drama seems to happen around me with family, friends, and others. I get to feeling sympathetic and get sucked in. I think I need Badger's training. If I could get that go to hell attitude without overdoing it most if not all of my problems would be gone! This situation is about the only drama that involves me directly, the rest of it is outside shit that I should jettison off into the void but can't find the release handle to pull and do it.

At least tonight I got some peace and quiet and I can go to sleep without visions of stalkers and psychopaths in my head.

They know I want kids and they exploit my sympathy. It's not good. At this rate I'll just donate my time to CASA: Court Appointed Special Advocates and those will be my kids, and get rid of this other drama stuff. Whatever I do is going to hurt someone so it's a matter of who do I not want to piss off the most! It's nice to be wanted, but the rest of it SUCKS.

And to the rest of you reading this thread, thanks for putting up with me airing this in public. I needed diverse opinions, it is general discussion, and you can't get a wider range of opinions than here.

nymphgonebad · Post by **nymphgonebad** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:17 pm

i want you kinetic - without the babies.

Ivy · Post by **Ivy** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:01 pm

Lydia--

I'm sorry to hear about your friend. No, he might not have had access to a gun in a hospital, but, honestly, in my opinion, it probably would not have helped him. Regardless of what happens in the hospital (don't get me started, please), just the stigma of having been committed to the psych ward is sometimes too much.
If you are worried about not admitting him to a hospital being the wrong course of action, I wouldn't. I really believe with all my heart that it does far more harm than good.

Kiamix,
I know you have a good heart and would do anything you could to help these women. Mentioning suicide is a cry for attention and it is a cry for help, even though the person may not be doing it consciously. I have no doubt that you will do what you can to help them. I know sometimes the best answer for you is to cut off all contact, but sometimes it's scary to have to go to counseling or see a therapist alone, especially if you've never been before. I suggest offering to drive them there and wait for them if it's possible. That accomplishes two things: you amke sure that they really go, and it makes them feel a litle more at ease and less abandoned.

PJ,

It's worth mentioning that crazy women are often really, really great at sex.

I love you.

Lydia Love · Post by **Lydia Love** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:48 pm

stigma of having been committed to the psych ward is sometimes too much.

Oh he was put there - which did save his life a handful of times - they'd put him on meds and he'd take them and get on some sort of an even keel but they were only able to keep him for three weeks at a time - the stigma wasn't an issue in his case. When off the meds he was too far gone. He thought maybe being homeless would be kinda cool. In his case the hospital *was* the best place for him. He'd get out and stop taking the meds...

When he was in town I could watch him like fuckin hawk. A handful of us did. When the option came up of having him go live with his parents came up or move into our rental property I pushed hard for his parents. I was just so fucking tired of him being my problem.

They didn't hospitalize him and they didn't watch him like a hawk. *They* probably got too fucking tired. And he's gone.

Blah blah blah.... I guess the point is that I can understand that the hospital may not always be the answer... but sometimes it is. If they could have kept him in for more than three weeks he might have gotten a better grip...

Oh but who the fuck knows. It's all what if at this point.

Regardless, a cry for help or a cry for attention - If I can give either I will and never ever again think of the inconvenience. But, you know, it's a hot-button topic for me.

Flux · Post by **Flux** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:51 pm

Hey Kinetic,

Sorry to hear about all your woman trouble, bro!

It's great to care about people and not want to see them hurting. Indeed, anyone without this basic level of compassion is probably not someone I'd want to be around very much. However...

I used to be much more afraid of hurting people than I am now; somewhere along the way, I realized the difference between "doing something with the intention of hurting someone" and "doing something with worthy intentions which may hurt someone."

I can only be responsible for my own intentions. If I do what I need to do -- like move on from a relationship that's not working for me -- I'm not doing that for the purpose of causing the other person pain. Do I have reason to believe that it will cause them pain? Yes, but I cannot have that be an organizing principle in my life. If I do, I am in essence handing my life over to them and saying "Use my life as you will for your own purposes," which is not healthy or good for me or them.

Not to imply that you don't already know this; just sharing my own journey.

Take care, my friend.

Flux

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 10:56 pm

There are some changes afoot over here. Things have gotta change. And the comments and private messages have really helped me on this. I've got work to do, this will stop and I'm getting this part of my life back. It might not be under control but at least the sheer chaos will cease.

Badger · Post by **Badger** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:05 pm

Flux,

Sounds like some damn solid avice to me - and I wasn't even looking for it.

Or so I thought.

Lust4Life · Post by **Lust4Life** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:30 pm

Do that. I work with the children who get that service in San Francisco. Do it for long enough and you'll find a woman worthy of your seed. Do it in SF and the demographic will favor you for the rest of your life. Same as anywhere, but here, you're gay till proven otherwise.

Seriously, the best way I now of to reintroduce sanity into your life is to send whatever surplus you might have (no matter how meager) toward a suffering child.

You have my sympathy. The mother of my child is an otherwise fine woman who only occaisionally flips out in a explosive and physical way--something which as a man, I've vowed never to do. But the boy is truly the light of the world. PM me and I'll send you his picture. Just don't let that woman see it or you'll never get clear.

analog girl · Post by **analog girl** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:56 pm

I can't BELIEVE I'm putting myself in the middle of this discussion . . . here goes . . .

Kinetic,

First, please understand that I sympathize with your plight. We've all been through our share of omigodiamlivinginasoapopera crap. And it sounds like you are being subjected to truly psychotic behavior.

but . . .

A couple of days before you posted your first message in this thread, you posted this message:

"BM was fun but I was talking to a woman online before I left and she let things slide while I went to BM. so I could have fun...and I did. Now that I'm back and we've went out, the chemistry is unreal. Now she's not Miss America...I mean she doesn't look like Precipitate or Tiara or Ivy, but she's cute and everything else is like kindred spirit / soulmate type connections. I've got a feeling that when I come back to BM in 04 we'll both make the trip and with rings.....and who knows maybe a new burner addition to Kidsville besides Dragontear! It's really crazy I'm even saying it. But definitely a possibility at the moment. We'll have to wait and see what happens though."

I understand things can turn very psycho very quickly (her having the children's names picked out is supercreepy). But, the exuberance you portray in the above message makes me wonder what sorts of things you are telling these women. Please don't think I'm saying you had all this coming. But it's a possibility you are sending some very mixed messages.

Kinetic · Post by **Kinetic** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:23 am

analog girl wrote:I can't BELIEVE I'm putting myself in the middle of this discussion . . . here goes . . .

Kinetic,

First, please understand that I sympathize with your plight. We've all been through our share of omigodiamlivinginasoapopera crap. And it sounds like you are being subjected to truly psychotic behavior.

but . . .

A couple of days before you posted your first message in this thread, you posted this message:

"BM was fun but I was talking to a woman online before I left and she let things slide while I went to BM. so I could have fun...and I did. Now that I'm back and we've went out, the chemistry is unreal. Now she's not Miss America...I mean she doesn't look like Precipitate or Tiara or Ivy, but she's cute and everything else is like kindred spirit / soulmate type connections. I've got a feeling that when I come back to BM in 04 we'll both make the trip and with rings.....and who knows maybe a new burner addition to Kidsville besides Dragontear! It's really crazy I'm even saying it. But definitely a possibility at the moment. We'll have to wait and see what happens though."

I understand things can turn very psycho very quickly (her having the children's names picked out is supercreepy). But, the exuberance you portray in the above message makes me wonder what sorts of things you are telling these women. Please don't think I'm saying you had all this coming. But it's a possibility you are sending some very mixed messages.

Post 300! Wheee!!!! Sorry, had to do it.

Analog girl, your point is valid and I want to respond to it. We've been e-mailing back and forth, and when I wrote that things were going good with her. She seemed to be a really good woman, in fact almost a kindred spirit with me. But since that post she's changed a bit, and that's where our problems began.

It's common knowledge on here that I'm looking for someone to be with and eventually I'd like kids. But now is not the time. I might lose my job in 45 days or less. I might be outsourced, repositioned, etc, or even let go. I made sure she knew that...the timing of meeting anyone right now for me sucks. She's like I don't care, we can ride through this, lotta lotta lotta. And she's now saying that I didn't have to buy her a diamond ring, she would settle for sapphire ring and stuff. Sheesh I can't believe I am even posting this. It's all just so freakin strange and while the woman is nice, I can't get her to understand that I can't do any serious stuff until my job situation improves and I get to know her a lot better. And I only want to do this once...my parents have been married 36 years as of today! and my grandparents have made it 64 years if I remember right. If I marry the ring has to be a carat and that's that. I'm not going to rush, I'm not going to fuck it up. She doesn't seem to get that and what seemed so wonderful feels a bit different now.

I'm no angel, I may have not said something right from time to time, but I thought I tried to get it across. As for the woman from Denver who asked me to marry her point blank last night, again, no dates, one time going out with friends, and she wants a ring and kids and everything...that story needs no further explaining.

This is why I love e-playa. Reality checks and devils advocate questioning. Flaws identified, fixes applied, positions strengthened. And Analog Girl, thanks for posting and trying to help me out!

PJ · Post by PJ » Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:11 am

Ivy wrote:PJ,
PJ wrote:It's worth mentioning that crazy women are often really, really great at sex.
I love you.

Yes, but are you crazy?

Doomed Relationships

Should have saved myself the trouble

Re: Should have saved myself the trouble

Casa for Kinetix