law enforcement 2013

[GreyCoyote]

Stick a thousand of them in uniform, post 'em on every street corner and at mid-block. I don't care. Have them do regular patrols. Fine. Hand out "Junior G-Man" stickie-badges to all of KidsVille. Ducky. I'll hand them a lemonade and sincerely thank them for their service. But they should stay the hell out of my camp unless I'm screaming for assistance.

This whole entrapment thing is just plain low. Simply *touching* a gallon baggie of green gets you a very expensive trip through the military/industrial/prison system? Seriously? How many clueless kids would have picked up that bag and gone "So... What is this?". For that moment of curiosity, its BLAMMO. GOTCHA. NEENER-NEENER-NEENER!!! YOU TOUCHED THE DRUGS SO NOW YOU ARE GUILTY!!!!

Logically, how can law enforcement require someone to have "criminal knowledge", just to stay "innocent"? Seriously?

Complete crap. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[1durphul]

Back in 2007 a 50 something undercover complete with police-stache wheeled up on his bicycle to my camp's adult play tent which we were still setting up. He's wearing just about the cleanest whitest shirt I've ever seen, and comes up to our door, I greet him, and he says "I came here last year with my wife and we had a real good time." We are a gay, but welcoming space for all who dare enter, "Oh that's wonderful! I'm glad you two enjoyed yourselves." Then he started going on about how he and his wife could come back with lots of "X" and they could have sex with lots of people, blah, blah, blah. And I was just like "Gosh, I don't know anything about that X, but you and your wife are welcome to have fun in our space." He tried a couple more times with the "X" he had so much of, before leaving. I've never been so certain that I was interacting with an undercover cop before or since.

[FIGJAM]

I want to know why I can't have an undercover arrested for trying to sell me drugs!!!

Isn't it the same as anyone else trying to sell me drugs?

Still seems like a crime to me!!!

[Sham]

A few years back, we had a kid who was clearly under 21 come into our camp begging for a beer. No doubt his daddy and his daddy's co-workers were around the corner waiting to bust someone. We offered him water or a soft drink, but he only wanted a beer. I think next time we'll engage him in something time consuming, just to freak out his daddy.

[delle]

A few years back, we had a kid who was clearly under 21 come into our camp begging for a beer. No doubt his daddy and his daddy's co-workers were around the corner waiting to bust someone. We offered him water or a soft drink, but he only wanted a beer. I think next time we'll engage him in something time consuming, just to freak out his daddy.

Heheh. The evil that lurks in the hearts of these upstanding peeps.

Warms the cockles, it does!!!

[unjonharley]

When I work for a detox, Some of the guys were into DT's other could not fall asleep for fear of DT's.. Now and then I would con one into believing a huge vitamin B capsule was a heavy duty sleeping pill.. Got away with it a few time too..

Change the label on a soda and con a under cover..

[gyre]

I posted about the girls assaulted by police after buying sparkling water at a liquor store.

But malta, which is quite refreshing in the heat, usually looks like beer even with the label on.
Glass though.
Might taste like beer to the unfamiliar.

[junglesmacks]

Personally, these burner paranoia threads are my totes fav post burn reading material.

Carry on.

[The Rod]

Paranoia is one thing.

I get sick of the fear mongering that surrounds the law enforcement leading up to and before the event. The self victimization of a community against brutal and tyrannical law enforcement is not my favorite thing either.

I get that an event like Burning Man (and our communities in defaultia) needs people who are sober, trained in extreme and emergency situations and who's job it is to deal with those situations when they arise so the rest of us can remain safe, and that the folks who give that gift deserve our gratitude and not vitriol.

I totally support trying to engage in positive interactions with law enforcement. I gifted bags of our fresh roasted New Mexico green chiles to any LEO's who happened to roll by while we had the roaster going.

HOWEVER,

I think that operating under the pretense of keeping us safe, service to the community and protecting public land to use the power to enforce inane drug laws, purely for economic gain is total bullshit.

Any reasonable person knows damn well that $500 dollar 'we caught you with drugs' fine isn't happening to keep me safe. It's happening to make some fucking money. The only reason drugs are illegal in the first place is to make some fucking money.

Fucking people over for money in the name of safety is not justifiable.

Getting ticked off because the asshats in charge think it's cool to step up the amount of fucking-people-for-money game is, I think, totally justified.

It is an entirely different thing than paranoia all together.

[Savannah]

Annoyed ≠ Paranoid.

Still not sure what the hot mess who dropped by my camp was, but it doesn't matter, 'cause I would never oblige her, even if I could.

I think I'm going to start giving people who ask such things a map directly to law enforcement.

[BBadger]

I don't like the narcs or entrapment, but I do think the "it's total bullshit that the cop bluffed, and I collapsed under pressure -- because I was carrying just a miniscule amount and had to pay" posts are just plain ridiculous.

The law enforcement stories that literally makes me laugh at the person's expense is when hippies volunteer their medical marijuana cards thinking they mean jack shit in Nevada. It's such a naive, entitlement type action. "Don't you know who I am? I have this card!"


As for strung-out wackos. I don't want them in my camp, narc or not. There was some weirdo zombie-looking dude, with long stringy hair, and paint on his hands like he had handled an ink-bomb in a bag of money, skulking around our camp and peering about. We didn't even think about him being a narc, but rather that he was just creeping the place out. We had to explicitly tell the ghoulish dude to stay put and we'd give him some water to be on his way.

No creepy xenos allowed!

[gyre]

Everyone should know how interrogation works, simply as self defense.

And you need to know it young.

[Savannah]

As for strung-out wackos. I don't want them in my camp, narc or not. There was some weirdo zombie-looking dude, with long stringy hair, and paint on his hands like he had handled an ink-bomb in a bag of money, skulking around our camp and peering about. We didn't even think about him being a narc, but rather that he was just creeping the place out. We had to explicitly tell the ghoulish dude to stay put and we'd give him some water to be on his way.

Some idiot (a stranger) flipped out on acid on Wednesday night in my camp while I was at the Meet & Greet, and authorities of some kind had to be called in.

I'm glad I missed that. Thanks, ePlaya!

[666isMONEY]

August 25th 2013 at about 6:37pm on Gate Road


license-plate closeup


Cops busting kids for license-plate covered up . . . better not have any drugs

[Jackass]

You have to be on top of your game out there, on the way in we were following a guy with his license plate completely obscured by bikes. We were in the line from hell and I went up to his car and let him know that his plate was covered and that he should consider rearranging it so that it could be seen. I also let him know that the police were a bit overzealous this year with that sort of thing, he said it would take too long. He had about 5hrs. to do something before entering the city.

You can lead a horse to water...

[Savannah]

Hey, you tried. It was kind of you.

[gyre]

That's the sort of "law enforcement" that gets towns de-certified even in Texas and Arkansas.
Probably not in Nevada though.

Never run into something like that elsewhere.
I have had cops simply lie about a light being out though.

[lucky420]

Pershing county has to make some money off the event...sheesh!

[Martiansky]

I took my plate off the back and taped it inside the back window of my truck topper.
The Greeter told me i should try to light it up so it could be seen better so after we went through we pulled over and I took a flashlight and bungeed it onto a cooler on the on the slide in hitch basket until we got to our camp. We did not get pulled over.
I guess the van full of kids in front of us had been pulled over and been searched because their plate was obscured by their bike rack. One of the girls in the van was very shook up by the search and had been crying because i guess the cops had been a bit gruff to them. They apparently didnt find anything because they made it through greeters ok and then pulled over and took the bikes off the back and the guys rode them to their camp.

I guess an obscured license plate is grounds for a search?

[gyre]

I wonder how many people gave "permission" under intimidation?

Understanding interrogation techniques is basic survival in our society.

[Martiansky]

And if you refuse then what?
Then you're "hiding something"?
.

[gyre]

That's the intimidation approach.

I tell them I'll be happy to allow a search with a signed search warrant.
And I make it clear I'll wait there for one.
This removes the excuse of urgency for a search.

[Martiansky]

Very good info, Gyre.
Thanks.

[gyre]

They don't ask when they have cause.
Or when they don't care.

I usually lock my car when I get out.
But I try to be diplomatic about it.
That's the hard part.

The leal and aclu sites have a lot more information.

[Ano]

Knowing your rights can only go so far when they have multiple k9s on call, ready and waiting to make a hit on your car for "probable cause." In the end, sure, lawyers for burners will get it thrown out, after a few months of litigation, stress, and a 500 dollar hole in your pocket.

I can't see a single positive argument for the ridiculous gauntlet present on gate road, or the draconian presence felt at some places on the playa. Lines of cars with tons of cops walking through any major gathering. Are they really keeping us safe looking for the one hippie smoking a joint? Walking through sound camp/car parties with flashlights on anyone digging through their pockets or backpacks, walking through burn night crowds, blah blah blah... It's very unfortunate that the actions of a few over-zealous drug warriors shines so negatively on every other BLM officer doing their job well. It makes me sad that for every story of compassionate BLM activity, there are a few stories of negative interactions. I hear way more about how BLM refused to help or acted out of line rather than awesome stories of BLM to the rescue.

[1durphul]

We had to explicitly tell the ghoulish dude to stay put and we'd give him some water to be on his way.

Glad you offered him water. I sometimes worry that those "zombies" are people experiencing heat exhaustion.

Back in 2007 some incredibly beautiful, young, completely naked woman wandered into my personal tent. I escorted her to our main tent which was full of gay men having sex as it always is, and she was babbling and confused, so I sent somebody to grab the rangers (we were on 9 that year so the station was very close). I got her some gatorade or water, and waited for the rangers to get there.

All I could think as she laid on one of our beds was "you really got lucky, of all the places you could have stumbled into you found the one least likely to take advantage of you."

(The med team came and took her away shortly.)

EDIT: This might not be on topic in the thread, so I'll just add: CLEARLY SHE WAS AN UNDERCOVER!!!!

[maladroit]

EDIT: This might not be on topic in the thread, so I'll just add: CLEARLY SHE WAS AN UNDERCOVER!!!!

The beauty was a dead giveaway. Also the mustache.

[BBadger]

And if you refuse then what?
Then you're "hiding something"?

That's the psychology behind it, and most of us believe it too. The guy who can't defend himself is hiding guilty right? But that's not right. The burden of proof is on the accuser. Don't make his job easier.

Of course this doesn't mean being a jerk about it, but don't voluntarily let the huns though the gates.

You've gotta know your rights and exercise them. That means that you should remain silent (or at least not answer questions you aren't required to) if the cop is questioning you. You have the right to remain silent, and silence is the only thing that can't held against you in a court of law (or when the cop pulls you over).

You shouldn't agree to a search -- ever. Let them get a warrant, or the K9s. In the end, what have you lost even if they find "reasonable proof" to conduct a search? There are some who will complain that it will only anger the cop and multiply the offense. Well that's a presumption, and usually tied to some sob story claiming that they "only had a miniscule bit of weed! HONEST!" The people are betting that the cop will not conduct a search anyway because the person has admitted guilt and provided legal cause to conduct a search.

EDIT: This might not be on topic in the thread, so I'll just add: CLEARLY SHE WAS AN UNDERCOVER!!!!

The beauty was a dead giveaway. Also the mustache.

What about the aviator sunglasses and round helmet?

[Sham]

There was a report that when the dogs were brought to suspected cars, the sign to the dog to sniff for bad stuff was a knock on the vehicle. The knock on the car itself, caused the dog to bark (supposedly by design) and the driver would be falsely told that there was a positive hit by the dog. This is the point where the driver is told to give them what they got and just get a ticket and avoid arrest. Police just got probable cause to do what they want with you.

I personally have nothing to hide, but the 4 uniformed BLM officers standing outside my trailer this year were rather intimidating. They never pushed their way inside, but I was thinking that even my little plastic 7-day pill organizer with blood pressure and cholesterol medication, would be considered illegal and worthy of a fine under the rules, since the meds are out of the pharmacy bottles. If a ticket were issued, I could spend the money and fly to NV for a court date or just send a check for the fine.

Again, I have nothing to hide, but for the above reasons (as well as our basic rights under the Constitution) you should NEVER, EVER consent to a search no matter how you are intimidated into it. I will also add, that ESPECIALLY if you have nothing to hide, still do not consent to a search.

It's ironic that in my default life I'm considered a pillar of the community, but when visiting the Black Rock Desert on Government property, it's assumed that I must be hiding something. I can see a weird view of heavy handed police, profiling people and pushing the rules to raise money with excessive fines, and it has changed my opinion of police activities in my local city.

Incredibly, (in my opinion) the BLM police are destroying 30 years worth of positive police/public relations, all for the greed of money.

[unjonharley]

Some while back I read or saw on TV. Police knew a grow operation was in a house.. They had no way of getting in.. The the police sent a dog to the front door.. The dog hit on the door.. The police charged in.. There was a grow operation.. The case was thrown out.. The dog had hit on the "outside" of the door..

Wounder what would happen if I did a roadside spray at entrance on a 1000 cars