heavy duity accessible MV?

[atomicray]

Stopping by on a regular basis to see if there is any word from those above.

A couple quick notes

...lol...yes a regulation ramp to get the height desired would be 60'+ and would be glorious!...but my thought was to knock it down to 30' with the addition of the winch and safety cables.

My short bus with the rear/side lift...I sold it...at a loss...WTF right? A local children's support charity, dealing with bringing students to various locations to learn about art...usually larger pieces and group work studies...I could not say no...so I met their working budget and lost a grand but well worth it.

So I am on the hunt again for another starter bus.

If I can help with the location of a starter with a lift for someone's project please drop me a line...I have bunches of contacts and links.

Looking forward to seeing this handi-view vehicle come to fruit!

[GreyCoyote]

A quick feature request to consider during the build: How about putting a couple of permanently mounted and publically accessible power pigtails on the MV? Might be really useful to pick up a quick charge for those running scooters and e-chairs. Most e-assist chairs take very little current off the 120 volt side, so these loads should not be difficult to supply in the grand scheme of a well-lit MV.

[atomicray]

That is a great idea that I thought for sure had been mentioned already...I guess great minds and all lol.

A smart idea for many reasons...I was talking to my wife this morning, going over some of the design aspects for my planned vehicle...and I brought up a central charging station, for just as you mentioned...allowing for a docking station and a core for the lighting effects.

Good stuff indeed!

[Captain Goddammit]

I should be ashamed not to know this cuz my own sister is wheelchair bound... do power chairs generally have their charger onboard and have a regular Edison style (common household type) 120VAC power cord to plug in for charging?

People with power chairs shouldn't be hesitant to ask for a charge anywhere if so. Most medium-to-large MVs have electric systems that can easily handle that as well as camps all over the place. I can't imagine myself or anyone not being happy to share a few watts.

Edit: unless it's unjonharley. That crusty ol' curmudgeon can walk.

[theCryptofishist]

Some chairs have the charger built in, others don't. Mine doesn't, but I have rented one that has. It seems convenient, but it would be dreadful to have the charger die, and take the otherwise healthy chair with it.

Mine says:
Model: HP8204B
Input: 115/230 VAC
60/50 Hz 3/1.5 A
Output: 24VDC/5A

I have had three electric chairs, and they all have the same imput. I have 4 (I think) chargers. Three were pretty much identical, shape, fan, leds. The fourth is different, it doesn't have a fan, but it stands on the "small side" (not the end) so I'm guessing it doesnt' need cooling. I not going over to check what says about input and output.

[GreyCoyote]

Yup. Your chair is basically peanuts when it comes to input power. You could actually charge that very nicely off a solar panel and a 24v charge controller in a pinch. Maybe Figjam can whip you up a solar umbrella that attaches to your chair? You'd have shade and power in style!

BTW: There are loads of aftermarket chargers for that voltage too, so if you just wanted a cheap beater charger to take to BM with you, that would be an option. Anything 24 volt output designed for AGM or gel cells should work.

As to possible grid-based charging stations, just follow your ears towards anything making a racket. Even the smallest genny would power-up that chair with ease. And where there is power, there could be margaritas!

EDIT: A search on Ebay shows lots of factory units for just about every chair I have ever heard of. Most are in the $30 to $80 price range, and the list includes on-board models. Might be worth a wander over there!

[gyre]

If you want to tap into a grid or generator, I suggest bringing your own breakouts and cord.

People are always generous with their power, not so much their needed outlets.

[theCryptofishist]

The dreadful thing is the time it takes... I spent all Monday charging that thing. One reason why I didn't want to be in Exodus, storm or no storm. I don't really know how long it usually takes, because I charge overnight. I suspect that elevation was a factor, I'm less sure about heat on that day. And it ties me down--that's the most wretched part. I can't move. I read a lot that day. Beetle on a card.

[Captain Goddammit]

Charging time has to do with current... sounds like for BM you could use a more powerful charger. The 24 volt output needs to remain constant, but the amperage could be lots more.

Yeah yeah I know everyone, slow "trickle charging" is best for batteries... but sometimes your priorities are different.

[theCryptofishist]

So, do I buy one? Make one? (or more accurately when it comes to me and electricity, ask someone to make one for me?)

[Misti]

I have nothing useful to add but I wanted to say I think this is such a wonderful idea and I really hope you see your vision come to fruition. I'm not in a wheelchair yet but I definitely have mobility issues and seeing the passion others put into the thought of providing an experience for those of us who might otherwise miss out is so wonderfully inspiring. Thank you!

Since this idea is still a dream, your support is useful to us because it makes us want to try harder to make this happen.

A quick feature request to consider during the build: How about putting a couple of permanently mounted and publically accessible power pigtails on the MV? Might be really useful to pick up a quick charge for those running scooters and e-chairs. Most e-assist chairs take very little current off the 120 volt side, so these loads should not be difficult to supply in the grand scheme of a well-lit MV.

What a great idea! it looks like we can buy the connectors online and have them built in so they are less likely to walk away and less likely to have someone plug in their phone or camera and fry it.

Some chairs have the charger built in, others don't. Mine doesn't, but I have rented one that has. It seems convenient, but it would be dreadful to have the charger die, and take the otherwise healthy chair with it.

Mine says:
Model: HP8204B
Input: 115/230 VAC
60/50 Hz 3/1.5 A
Output: 24VDC/5A

I have had three electric chairs, and they all have the same imput. I have 4 (I think) chargers. Three were pretty much identical, shape, fan, leds. The fourth is different, it doesn't have a fan, but it stands on the "small side" (not the end) so I'm guessing it doesnt' need cooling. I not going over to check what says about input and output.

Wow you are Awesome! That is exactly what we needed, thank you! The truck is already 24V so it is practically made for this project. The alternator on the truck is 60A and at half load it could charge 20 chairs.
Do you know if the chairs with the built in chargers have the same 3 pin xlr plug connector?

[atomicray]

So, do I buy one? Make one? (or more accurately when it comes to me and electricity, ask someone to make one for me?)

Was this in reference to the trickle charger?

If so, you would buy one.

There are a couple issues with dealing with mobile chair power...most use two 12vDC batteries in series for 24vDC...the real rub is the charging system, a direct charger without a buffer or staged charge can produce ripple (which is alternating current AC along the direct current DC connections) and ripple does horrific things to DC systems.

24vDC systems are a pain in the ass (SWIDT ), especially in the marine industry...because they are almost always split system and a loose connection results in a dogged power source, overheating, and worse expansion of the battery casing.

If your chair does not have an onboard charger it should be no issue at all, at least for the event, to mount it for mobile charging...but yes buy one, the engineering is no fun.

It sounds like you have plenty of chargers...should be easy peasy to have a standard cable connection.

[Captain Goddammit]

The alternator on the truck is 60A and at half load it could charge 20 chairs.

No it couldn't. First of all, it's 60 amps max at full speed. At idle speed (all you'll ever see on the playa) it won't put out nearly as much.

Second, 60 amps at 24 volts is about 1400 watts. At idle you likely won't have 1000 watts, probably less.
Crypto's charger, according to those specs, draws around 300 watts.
If you wired the 24V electric system directly to the chair batteries, it would draw however much current your wiring harness could handle, depending on how depleted the chair batteries were at the time.

I'm assuming you will have a generator on board for your lighting; an MV that size is gonna need a lot and that alternator isn't gonna handle it. I think you'd be better off tapping into the generator power to charge chairs.
You aren't going to have the surplus of alternator power you might think!
That's the classic standard on-playa failure

[GreyCoyote]

Fishy: i have a concern about speed charging the chair. I think you need to chat with someone who plays with these on a daily basis and has lots of hands-on knowledge. We as a group have been looking at the chair as a typical "black box with batteries", which is acceptable for much, but may not be wise when we are talking about your main transportation.

What might be better and safer is to find a second battery pack. Have one in the chair, and one on the charger. This way the only down time is swapping batteries out, ie, five minutes. The dead batteries get recharged at the usual, lame rate while you motor-on to more playa mischief.

What CaptD said is entirely true about charge times being directly related to current. Some batteries can withstand truely insane charge rates. Others not so much. The batt mfgrs publish this info in great detail, so if this was me and my chair, I would definitely try the speed charge route at the max rate and monitor closely. If there was a problem I could likely find it early and engineer around it. But I am loathe to impose this sort of risk on you and potentially screw-up your burn, and chair, which is why 2 batt packs might be a better solution.

Faster is most definitely possible. Just understand the risks.

[theCryptofishist]

Hm. You can get at the battery pack in the playa chair. But it involves taking the seat off and lifting the batteries out. Which is beyond my capability. I already rely on others to bring the gennie and gas. I try to minimize the burden on my campmates...

Just saying. Of course, I think my next course of action is to buy stronger, longer lasting batteries.
Which will only make the charging longer I know, but with my other chair I have them, and even if I forget to charge over night (a rare occurrence) I can go to work and not worry about getting home.

Many of you will have chairs in your future, and most of you will know someone who does. I paid for the difference in the batteries out of pocket, insurance did not cover it. So Totally Worth It. Remember that.

[Jax Dee]

Fishy and others covering med costs out of pocket: don't forget you can claim these on your taxes. If you spend a lot on med costs (and that includes your insurance premiums, OTC meds, mileage to drive to doc appt, equipment, massages, etc) it can really pay off to itemize. Last year I spent $13,000 out of pocket on med costs. I do my own taxes and have for almost 20 years. My gran is a book keeper. PM me if you have any questions.