Aiding ticketless burners ticket revocation is FASCIST

[Ratty]

Hell to get old. Thanks, yes. Woodie Guthrie.

[gyre]

Dylan is a big Guthrie fan, and has probably referenced Guthrie's referenced Spanish war slogan.

Interesting how many interpret it now, but it was often applied to industrial equipment in WWII, in recognition of everyone's contribution being as vital as any machine gun or tank.
That's what Guthrie meant by it.

He inscribed his guitar after writing "Talking Hitler's Head Off Blues".

[gyre]

My favorite Irving Berlin song.
Mildred Bailey, wonderful voice.
The version I have is without the accompanying voices and a bit darker and foreboding, for the subject anyway.
This is the closest I can find online.
When That Man is Dead and Gone

[media]

[maladroit]

If someone managed to sneak in with all the food, water, and shelter they needed to be self-sufficient, I'd actually be impressed and not as likely to turn them in.

But that doesn't happen...people who sneak in feel entitled to free admission, and also feel entitled to free food, water, shelter, porta-potties, alcohol, drugs, and entertainment.

[BBadger]

One can be "self-sufficient" if a complicit camp/friend hauls in the sneak/stowaway's supplies. I don't think that makes it much better. While one or two is not going to get noticed, the last thing we want is the BLM reducing the population cap to account for these illegal aliens. More importantly, we don't want entitled folk like the OP getting in for free.

[Ratty]

Any 'Gate' eplayans care to chime in? I want to hear stories.

[atomicray]

The OP can go fuck his or her self.

On a side note, how about establishing an amnesty lane or codeword to let the perimeter staff know you have picked up a stowaway and would like to turn them over...win win.

A douche bag scumbag stowaway gets the boot and the ticket holders carry on and support BM with their burning efforts.

OP I would offer you a ride...dive 100mi out of my way and leave you at a remote gas station...I would have said in the deep desert to be coyote bait, but I know they have standards...which clearly exceed your value.

Hey but at least you wake up being you, every day...that is something...you have that going for you...kinda like waking up with a 60 lb tumor, but something none the less.

Trolls...they do make thing interesting don't they?

[britzbitz]

I do hope more stowaways show up in my camp and announce themselves like the one who did just that this year. I got in his face and started screaming for a ranger with a radio - little plump old lady me backed him up over a half block and into an intersection before I let him escape. I was immediately given an ovation and cheers from about 100 people in the camps nearby who heard the ruckus.

This is MY event, one that I love. I have spent many years doing a lot of work and spending a lot of money to make it even better. I volunteer well over 70 hours every year on playa. I have personally paid for and given away many gift tickets to people who could not get a ticket, even through the scholarship or low income programs. To have someone show up at my camp, begging for food, water, booze, and a place to sleep because he stowed away makes me very angry. I ask that everyone who hopes this event continues in the future will contact a ranger when they encounter these people and have them escorted out. To me, it is exactly as if they are putting their hand in my pocket and taking my cash. They are stealing from all of us who made the sacrifices it takes to participate. Our city's resources are finite. I sincerely doubt that anyone who would sneak in would care very much about the principles and "civics" that we have to take great care to practice if we are to continue having this event in the future.

The OP gives us the argument that we must have all sneaked into some concert or other through the years. This is not the same as some commercial concert - not to me, and not to many of us - and no, I don't steal. Sneaking in is most certainly stealing, insultingly done in a city that encourages gifting instead. If you don't respect the producers of this event, don't go. If you do, why do you condone ripping them off?

The OP has resorted to nasty name calling to those on this thread that disagree with him. I am not surprised. It is my opinion that anyone caught aiding ticketless burners to stowaway should be put on a list of persons barred permanently from the event.

This post, 100%.
I think I have a little pixel-crush on you.

I work for a festival in Canada. While I'm on duty during the festival, I get to dress up in costumes, but I always have a radio strapped to my hip. I am always astounded when people let slip to me that they've snuck in. REALLY? The radio didn't give you some HINT that I work for the production? Why would you just admit to me that you stole from me, my co-workers and all the other attendees? It's so satisfying carting them off to security. Especially when you do it in such a way that they don't even know what's happening. "Come with me, I want to show you something." By the time they realize where they're going, it's too late.

I wouldn't hesitate for a second to do the same if I ran into a stow-away at Burning Man.

[Ratty]

It would be a little tough to turn them in once they are past the gate. Even if they admitted sneaking in, it's not like you could march them to the entrance. There are 6 kinds of cops but what do they care. Rangers aren't exactly armed thugs. Besides, you can't prove it one way or the other after they are in. I suppose yelling at them is all you can do.

[ygmir]

It would be a little tough to turn them in once they are past the gate. Even if they admitted sneaking in, it's not like you could march them to the entrance. There are 6 kinds of cops but what do they care. Rangers aren't exactly armed thugs. Besides, you can't prove it one way or the other after they are in. I suppose yelling at them is all you can do.

not exactly Ratty:
they still can be compelled to produce a torn ticket and documentation. And yes, they can be marched to the entrance (exit in their case) by the correct dept. and authorities. The ORG reserves the right to revoke entrance "for cause" or some such language, too.

[Ratty]

I'm a Greeter. Tickets are one of the common things left in the dust. "Make a dust angel, lose your phone". Burning Man doesn't expect everyone to be able to produce a ticket even 30 minutes after entry. You would have to catch em coming in.

Their official stand could be different from their actual expectations. (Just in case you feel like looking up the info and quoting it.)

[ygmir]

I'm a Greeter. Tickets are one of the common things left in the dust. "Make a dust angel, lose your phone". Burning Man doesn't expect everyone to be able to produce a ticket even 30 minutes after entry. You would have to catch em coming in.

Their official stand could be different from their actual expectations. (Just in case you feel like looking up the info and quoting it.)

where does this come from?

[Ratty]

From my tiny brain of course. If I'm greeting, and find a bunch of tickets during the week, and other Greeters find tickets....Then it's no secret that people lose tickets. I assume that the Org. is aware of this, (since I've only been Greeting 2 years and they have been Orging for many more).

I'm not trying to belabor the point. I'm just sayin, askin. You gotta catch em coming in or what could you do? Even if they admitted it. Yell at them, stick out my tongue, shun them? And then write about it in the Asshat thread.

[ygmir]

From my tiny brain of course. If I'm greeting, and find a bunch of tickets during the week, and other Greeters find tickets....Then it's no secret that people lose tickets. I assume that the Org. is aware of this, (since I've only been Greeting 2 years and they have been Orging for many more).

I'm not trying to belabor the point. I'm just sayin, askin. You gotta catch em coming in or what could you do? Even if they admitted it. Yell at them, stick out my tongue, shun them? And then write about it in the Asshat thread.

one procedure would be to contact a ranger, say you have information that said person snuck in, and they can escalate, if they choose. There are procedures and precedent for expelling people who snuck in, and or co conspirators.

[Ratty]

Any 'Ranger' eplayans care to chime in? I want to hear stories.

[Captain Goddammit]

I was once hanging out late at night on my MV way out by the trash fence and was approached by police and was asked to show tickets, and was told I had to move away. I found that more than mildly annoying since I assumed it was legit to be anywhere inside the fence and while I understood the reason it could look bad I didn't understand why the real cops gave a shit about that. Perimeter, sure... but these were the cops.
I was almost in a catch-22 bind because I'd had a margarita or two out there. I had planned on being stationary the rest of the evening. Now I had a cop telling me to drive.
I did and nothing came of the incident but now I keep my ticket stub and don't hang out by the trash fence.

I've also in years past been stopped by real cops and asked to show my DMV papers.

[gyre]

I've never seen that situation with someone claiming to be in legally.
It seems that the first questions if a ticket can't be located, would be how you got a ticket and how you got to the playa.
Just a guess.

[Dr Helix]

I was once hanging out late at night on my MV way out by the trash fence and was approached by police and was asked to show tickets, and was told I had to move away. I found that more than mildly annoying since I assumed it was legit to be anywhere inside the fence and while I understood the reason it could look bad I didn't understand why the real cops gave a shit about that. Perimeter, sure... but these were the cops.
I was almost in a catch-22 bind because I'd had a margarita or two out there. I had planned on being stationary the rest of the evening. Now I had a cop telling me to drive.
I did and nothing came of the incident but now I keep my ticket stub and don't hang out by the trash fence.

I've also in years past been stopped by real cops and asked to show my DMV papers.

Hmmmmm. A remote meeting spot. A boat. Darkness. A Captain with a drinking problem. Sounds like a classic smuggling operation to me. Was Humphrey Bogart with you?

[gyre]

Mystery solved.
A mother ship hovering near the fence.

[BBadger]

I think it all depends on the situation, for example if there's some party claiming the other party had confessed to sneaking in or harboring stowaways.

While the cops may not necessarily be able to evict a suspected trespasser or stowaway (or complicit persons) based on ticket possession within the event, the event organizers can invoke their right to remove people from the event, and may do so based on provided evidence (especially something like a video/voice recording).

Therefore we should all "participate" in reporting sneaks, stowaways and their complicit friends/camps to rangers and have the BMOrg officials decide on the appropriate action provided evidence and witnesses. True, it may be a matter of one person's word against another, but in the end the playa is not a court of law as far as event policy.

[Captain Goddammit]

Of course, that opens the can of worms where someone could claim another person smuggled in stowaways, doesn't it?

[ygmir]

Of course, that opens the can of worms where someone could claim another person smuggled in stowaways, doesn't it?

claiming someone smuggled someone in, would be different than claiming someone snuck in, and "this person" helped them.
You'd have to prove a person snuck someone in.
Whereas, if you had a person, who had snuck in, and they finger the helper(s)..........

I'd not see a witch hunt as such. But I do see and feel resentment myself, at those who sneak in, sponge off others, and brag about it.

tough call, it's totally an individual thing.

[goathead]

hmmmmm I should check in more.

[BBadger]

Sure, it does open a can of worms, and may even be used to mischievous ends. It's why I'd leave it to the rangers and ORG to make a decision, but still report them -- and keep my ticket stubs.

[GreyCoyote]

This is why we should all carry giant zip-ties. Cuff 'em and stuff 'em. And duct-tape. And baby-oil... oh nevermind...

[BBadger]

I'm sure there are camps that do that anyway right?

[Captain Goddammit]

I'd not see a witch hunt as such. But I do see and feel resentment myself, at those who sneak in, sponge off others, and brag about it.

Couldn't agree more. This isn't a Rainbow festival!!

[ygmir]

This is why we should all carry giant zip-ties. Cuff 'em and stuff 'em. And duct-tape. And baby-oil... oh nevermind...

love is a strong word......but I do like you GC!!

[GreyCoyote]

This is why we should all carry giant zip-ties. Cuff 'em and stuff 'em. And duct-tape. And baby-oil... oh nevermind...

love is a strong word......but I do like you GC!!

(hehehehe). I think they call this a "Man-crush"?

What are your thoughts about barbed wire, flame throwers and the Shotgun Hemi??

[ygmir]

This is why we should all carry giant zip-ties. Cuff 'em and stuff 'em. And duct-tape. And baby-oil... oh nevermind...

love is a strong word......but I do like you GC!!

(hehehehe). I think they call this a "Man-crush"?

What are your thoughts about barbed wire, flame throwers and the Shotgun Hemi??

not sure what a "shotgun hemi" is, but I do own rolls of tactical razor wire and can make a flame thrower in about an hour........