No notifications

[Elliot]

Hey Trilo,

I have received no e-mail notifications the last couple days. This may have coincided with my adding subscriptions to two sub-categories.

And... is it me, or has there been unusually little traffic on the whole ePlaya lately? Could it be that others are also not receiving notifications?

As always, thanks for all you do.

-Elliot

[trilobyte]

I'll take a look into it. I've not received any notification emails in the last day or so either, but I hadn't received any new PM's in that time either (I don't subscribe to any threads). This is the slowest time of the year for the site, traffic doesn't seem unusual.

[Elliot]

This may be a clue:
I receive Jack Rabbit Speaks to both my e-mail addresses, a Hotmail and an AT&T/Yahoo. On Hotmail it arrived yesterday. Still none on AT&T. So... could it be something in the relationship between @burningman.com versus my AT&T account?

[Elliot]

Still no e-mail notifications. I could take advantage of this to help break my ePlaya addiction, but the absence of other e-mail from [email protected] is a serious problem. What can I try at my end? (No, they are not in the spam folder.)

[Elderberry]

Try adding @burningman.com to your safe sender list or whatever AT&T calls it.

[trilobyte]

Please try and have some patience, Elliot. As I said on Friday I'm looking into it, but am currently waiting for a response back from someone. In the meantime, you're still able to peruse threads and read/post messages on the site.

[Elliot]

Please try and have some patience, Elliot. As I said on Friday I'm looking into it, but am currently waiting for a response back from someone. In the meantime, you're still able to peruse threads and read/post messages on the site.

Oh yes, absolutely, Trilo. You are much appreciated.

Meanwhile, following Jkisha's advice, I cannot find a "safe sender list", but I entered "[email protected]" in my regular "Contacts" list. So let's see if that helps.
I have a bunch of other "[email protected]" addresses in the Contacts list, so apparently the domain is not enough. And my Contacts list will not even accept just the domain only.

[trilobyte]

I'm not entirely sure the issue is something on your end, Elliot. I'm checking on things on the back end, and am waiting for a response back from someone who can hopefully do some testing on a server I don't have direct access to.

[trilobyte]

Further investigation (and PM conversations) lead me to believe that the trouble you're experiencing is related to your mail provider. We were experiencing some delays and issues with notifications last week, but by all accounts those delays were measured in hours (not days) and everything should have caught back up.

It's worth mentioning (in case anyone else out there is experiencing difficulties with email notifications) that over the last couple years, a lot of the cable and telecom providers have been adding their own spamblocking 'feature' for their users and customers. While they may mean well, their efforts sometimes wind up blocking mail from a sender (or a whole domain) that you want to get mail from. Unfortunately, since the cable/telecom/regional providers tend to vary from one company (or region) to the next, it's tough to say what the remedy would be. Ideally, you'd be able to log into your email provider's web site, and there would be some kind of setting you can adjust for filters or blocking - but unfortunately some don't have that, or they do a big chunk of their blocking at the ISP level before it ever even hits your inbox. If that's the case, you can either try and suffer through their tech support process to get it squared away, or you could set up another email account with a provider that gives you greater control over what does and does not get blocked. Yahoo, GMail (Google), Outlook (Microsoft), and iCloud (Apple) all have free email services that give you pretty good control over what is and isn't junk.

Please feel free to let me know if you're experiencing any other issues or weirdness.

[ygmir]

Further investigation (and PM conversations) lead me to believe that the trouble you're experiencing is related to your mail provider. We were experiencing some delays and issues with notifications last week, but by all accounts those delays were measured in hours (not days) and everything should have caught back up.

It's worth mentioning (in case anyone else out there is experiencing difficulties with email notifications) that over the last couple years, a lot of the cable and telecom providers have been adding their own spamblocking 'feature' for their users and customers. While they may mean well, their efforts sometimes wind up blocking mail from a sender (or a whole domain) that you want to get mail from. Unfortunately, since the cable/telecom/regional providers tend to vary from one company (or region) to the next, it's tough to say what the remedy would be. Ideally, you'd be able to log into your email provider's web site, and there would be some kind of setting you can adjust for filters or blocking - but unfortunately some don't have that, or they do a big chunk of their blocking at the ISP level before it ever even hits your inbox. If that's the case, you can either try and suffer through their tech support process to get it squared away, or you could set up another email account with a provider that gives you greater control over what does and does not get blocked. Yahoo, GMail (Google), Outlook (Microsoft), and iCloud (Apple) all have free email services that give you pretty good control over what is and isn't junk.

Please feel free to let me know if you're experiencing any other issues or weirdness.

I don't run filters, and am not getting "PM" email notices.

[Elliot]

On the philosophical side…. I used to be a docent at an automobile museum. There I learned to drive a model T Ford from the 1920s, and much more about such cars.

15 Million model Ts were sold from 1908 to 1927, in a market that simply did not exist until then. Everybody had to have one, because of the astonishing tasks a model T could carry out. Of course, the owner had to learn a whole new set of skills to maintain it, and practice those skills daily. And it was perfectly normal and accepted that the T often had to be brought home at the end of a rope, pulled by a horse. “Well, for heaven’s sakes Elmer, nothing is perfect!”

A few years ago I watched one of the most highly skilled model T drivers around fight a T for at least 100 feet across a parking lot before crashing into a parked car. Model Ts suck.

Today we just turn the key in our Toyota Camry – which is bloody near perfect. No maintenance skills required, and tow trucks do mostly collision work.

Computers are today’s model T.

[trilobyte]

In this case it's not so much the computer, but your personal choice in email provider is the model T (those of us with modern provider services can very easily adjust those settings).

Doing some further digging, I did find a ton of bounced email messages for both Elliot and Ygmir. Turns out that my provider got such a barrage of them, they ticked them as spam and blocked them at the ISP level (where I normally see all bounce messages that come from the site).

I went ahead and filed something with your provider through the link they provided in the bounce message. I haven't made any changes to anything on my end in some time (and let them know that), hopefully they can adjust the squelch on their end and unblock their lines.

The question is, do you guys get a similar nostalgic feeling using such a clunky email provider as the guy driving the vintage car? If not, why keep using them when there are a multitude of other options out there that cost nothing? Most email programs out there support multiple email addresses, so it's not like you even have to choose one or the other.

[Elderberry]

Because that would be way too easy. And then there wouldn't be anything to complain post about.

[Elliot]

Thank you Trilo, for taking the time to dig up the answer, and for advising on choice of e-mail companies. I had NO IDEA that AT&T/Yahoo was such a "model T" or "Yugo". I just happened to end up with it when I changed from dial-up to DSL a few years ago. I was then unaware that my old Microsoft MSN/Hotmail, now Outlook, could keep right on working with the new ATT interweb connection.

But I still have the Microsoft Outlook e-mail account, now little used but fully operational and free. You mentioned Outlook earlier as a "Toyota Camry" system, so I reckon I'll start transferring all my e-mail subscriptions and contacts back to that.

Even if your efforts to straighten out the current problem with ATT is successful, I cannot risk having something important vanish into the ether in the future.

Is there a current automobile equivalent? Are they still peddling the Yugo?

[Eric]

Is there a current automobile equivalent? Are they still peddling the Yugo?

Try gmail. Create Account is at the top of the page.
I have three accounts linked through that, and you may even be able to have your current mail forwarded automatically to gmail (I can for all but one provider). Just make sure that if you have a spam-form email (one you use whenever a business requires one, like Staples) that you don't link it!

[Elliot]

Thanks, Eric. I have always had a Microsoft MSN/Hotmail/Outlook account also, and this afternoon I changed my ePlaya address back to that. And notifications are arriving there.

I think Trilo's primary suspect at this point is that ATT is refusing to accept e-mails from @burningman.com to my ATT account. So there would be nothing to forward.

I'm worried about my Burner Profile. There, the e-mail address cannot be changed -- I would have to delete it and start a new one. But it will probably be all right.

So it's actually "ATT-Yugo!", eh.... Can we blame Judge Greene for this?

[Eric]

So it's actually "ATT-Yugo!", eh.... Can we blame Judge Greene for this?

I'm not sure how your ATT acct is set up, but if it has to go through a computer-based email client (or "program") instead of being obtainable through your web-browser, then, yes, it is a Yugo. Web-based clients (like gmail) tend to be both more robust and more flexible - of course, the catch is that it's harder to get emails you want or need to save onto your hard-drive if needed. Up until my computer melt-down this past August I kept one email account that went through a computer-based client so I could use it for emails I wanted to file for reference. I realized it's rare that I need to do that anymore, so I switched that to a web-client for that acct as well once the computer was repaired.

[ygmir]

hhm, I use Thunderbird as my client, and I'm att........but have always had all filters off. dang

[Elliot]

Thanks, Eric. But.... I just read (tried to read -- actual reading involves comprehension) the Wikipedia entry for "e-mail client", and came away no wiser.

But I've started phasing out the use of my ATT account.

To save an e-mail for future reference, I print it out with my b/w laser printer. The paper sheet goes in a hanging folder in a steel file cabinet.
(Same file cabinet that holds my lifetime membership card in the International Society Of Luddites. )

Ask me how a bicycle freewheel works, and I'll disassemble one on the spot and explain how the little springs and pawls function.

[trilobyte]

I've got an email address with each of those four major providers. I got a yahoo account in the late 90's after the service had been around for a couple years, but with each of the other companies I've been using them since well before they opened up to the public (in Microsoft's case both with MSN and Outlook). I only use two of them (Apple and Google) regularly, but logged into the other two before posting to make sure that they've got reasonable controls for blocking and unblocking stuff. They should all be able to meet your needs for email and whatnot, and be pretty easy to set up with whatever email program (or phone app), you could go with any of them.

To me, the telecoms and cable companies are all boneheads when it comes to providing internet services. They all were pretty much dragged along kicking and screaming, and would still be charging people per-minute charges and hitting us with extra fees for call waiting if we let them. None of them are innovators when it comes to providing services. They do a so-so job of providing the utility of connection and infrastructure to get you onto the internet, but to them every nickel beyond that is what they see as money out of pocket that they have to spend to keep up with the joneses (in this case, the very small number of local competitors they have - most people only have one or two choices for places to get internet from).

My advice (and to be clear, this is just my personal advice and not any kind of official recommendation) is to use your internet provider to provide you with internet. From there, go to one of the big portals to get better (and often easier to use) service on the other stuff.

/end ramble

As for your Burner Profile, go here to get in touch with the team that handles that stuff. They can answer your question and help you get sorted out so there are no hiccups there.

[Eric]

An email client is a program that processes your email (ie: makes it so you can read it). Programs like Outlook and Thunderbird are computer-based clients, which means they live on the hard-drive of your computer, and are completely separate from the actual email system (ie: AT&T). A web-based client like Gmail or Yahoo is based on internet servers, much like ePlaya, and the email service is integrated with the client.

How this affects you: with a computer-based client/ program, you can only filter what your email service (ie: AT&T) hasn't already decided is spam - they get to decide what you see before you do by blocking things at the server level. With a web-based browser you tend to have much more flexibility in what you allow - they're still going to filter known spammers and block the worst offenders at the server level, but with things that get caught in the spam filters like the .burningman, you can tell the client, "no, I want those". The program is just seeing a lot of emails coming from those sites & declaring them suspicious & tossing them in your client-level spam folder (the one you can see & control), you still have the power to say they're not spam.

With gmail I had to make filters for all my work related domains so that they didn't go to the spam folder, due to the amount of emails from them. It's simple to set up, and you can tell it exactly how you want your mail handled.

I moved away from provider-based email (again, ie: AT&T) almost a decade ago, because they tend to have overactive filters and less flexibility (some of the same reasons Trilo posted above). There are a lot of free options that "do" email a whole lot better. My preference is gmail, but I've used yahoo as well (too much clutter & ads for my tastes). I still use yahoo as my "junk mail" email - that's the address I give whenever I have to fill out a form for a company that requires an email. Keeps my actual email accounts less cluttered (I have 4 active accounts - business, personal, photography, junk-mail)

tldr; Outlook & Thunderbird = Yugo. Gmail etc = modern car.

[Elliot]

Guys, I doubt you can even imagine how grateful I am for these tutorials. And in plain English! I am of course printing them out!

I've noted the List Of Four Good Ones, and the likely Numero Uno. But I still have two questions:

Outlook....
I believe I have noticed that there are both "Outlook" and "Outlook.com". My Microsoft e-mail account started life ten years ago as MSN (with the butterfly emblem), which seemed to parallel or merge or some such with Hotmail, and which recently morphed into some version of Outlook, although my address still has the @msn.com domain. What's the outlook vs outlook.com difference and what do I have? I have access to "safe sender" and "blocked sender" lists, but don't know if there is a secret screening level before that, as you talk about.

AT&T and Yahoo....
A few years ago I switched from Microsoft's dial-up connection to AT&T's DSL connection -- for DSL the speed. I chose AT&T largely because I now get both telephone and internet on one bill. But I immediately noticed that the logo on my screen says "AT&T / Yahoo!".
Now I find Yahoo on your list of good'uns. I gather that Yahoo alone is a completely different creature from Yahoo-flavored ATT?

Once I understand all this, you guys may have written a best-selling "E-mail for Dummies" kind'a book!

[trilobyte]

Yes - Outlook is both the name of Microsoft's email client application (for Windows computers and tablets), and more recently (in 2012) became the name of their email service (they folded msn and hotmail into it, I believe).

And yes, ATT and Yahoo do have a connection. They got involved in a partnership years and years back, with ATT basically contracting to use Yahoo's services. It was a case of the telecom wanting to do as little as possible to be competitive, so they hired out the services with Yahoo. However, that's a very different level of service than people who just have yahoo accounts are getting these days - chances are as the partnership stagnated, nobody really updated anything. Today's yahoo isn't so bad, and on the flickr side they offer 1GB of image hosting for free (they used to charge extra for lots of space on flickr).

[Eric]

Your MSN account should have modern functionality - my boyfriend's uses a hotmail account that got folded into Outlook.com that works pretty much like gmail (which I forgot was a web-based Outlook due to the fact I still send my email to his hotmail account - sorry about the confusion). I would switch as much of your .burningman stuff to your MSN/Outlook account to avoid regular occurrences of this.

I'm glad it's making sense - I worked as in-house IT at a law-firm in the late 90s and had to explain this to attorneys all the time (smart people, this isn't their expertise). Of course, when I updated to an iPhone a few years ago, I had to have a younger friend explain some of it's functions to me. Damn getting older stuff....

[ygmir]

so I went to my ATT/Yahoo, web client, noted they said "switch to the new email today" so did, and turned off any and all filters they offered.
Now to see if a notification comes through.
and on another note, Trilo: what email do you guys have for me? maybe the address got corrupted?

[Elliot]

Now.... I realize it is bad form to post somebody's personal message in public, but this is just too "good" to hold in. And it isn't exactly personal, since this turns out to be a widespread problem.

In a nutshell... with much help from Trilo, the following happened:

I reached a human -- "Ryan" -- at AT&T, and sent him a copy of a Delivery Failure Notice (one of many over a week plus) that came back to ePlaya, which Ryan needed to investigate. In all the data-babble of the DFN I noticed the word "blacklist" and the phrase "Blocked for abuse."

Here is the reply from "Ryan":

Hey there Elliot,

With that error, it is definitely being blocked. The distributor of the e-mails will need to follow the http://att.net/blocks ; under error 521 it has instructions how to request to be removed. Being that this is a request, it may not end up going through.

Thank you,
Ryan, AT&T Social Media Manager

ref:_00DE0czFk._500E07ufpp:ref

(Being a couple decades ahead of me in computer knowledge and understanding, Trilo had already sent such a request a couple days ago.)

What riles me is this sentence in the answer:

... Being that this is a request, it may not end up going through. ...

Which sounds to me like AT&T is trying to get out of the e-mail business by deliberately losing customers.

With me, they are succeeding.

[ygmir]

Now.... I realize it is bad form to post somebody's personal message in public, but this is just too "good" to hold in. And it isn't exactly personal, since this turns out to be a widespread problem.

In a nutshell... with much help from Trilo, the following happened:

I reached a human -- "Ryan" -- at AT&T, and sent him a copy of a Delivery Failure Notice (one of many over a week plus) that came back to ePlaya, which Ryan needed to investigate. In all the data-babble of the DFN I noticed the word "blacklist" and the phrase "Blocked for abuse."

Here is the reply from "Ryan":

Hey there Elliot,

With that error, it is definitely being blocked. The distributor of the e-mails will need to follow the http://att.net/blocks ; under error 521 it has instructions how to request to be removed. Being that this is a request, it may not end up going through.

Thank you,
Ryan, AT&T Social Media Manager

ref:_00DE0czFk._500E07ufpp:ref

(Being a couple decades ahead of me in computer knowledge and understanding, Trilo had already sent such a request a couple days ago.)

What riles me is this sentence in the answer:

... Being that this is a request, it may not end up going through. ...

Which sounds to me like AT&T is trying to get out of the e-mail business by deliberately losing customers.

With me, they are succeeding.

wow dang!!
I remember that happening some time ago, with another thing. Eventually, it turned out to be error.
but what a PITA!!!
when I went to my server to check, text messages from a friend have been going into "junk" before even getting to my client.......no good reason, just there. They were coming from her phone, so name was a number........

[Elliot]

Model Ts!

[Eric]

Model Ts!

Yggy's problem with a friends phone can happen with web-clients as well. Anything they don't recognize goes to your spam folder. The good news is that you can set that addy to go to your inbox, and adapt your filters. I've had to do it a few times - being in the promotions biz for work, I get a lot of emails from sites gmail wants to call spam, so I have to watch for those.

[Elliot]

... I get a lot of emails from sites gmail wants to call spam, so I have to watch for those.

This is completely baffling to me. Surely, one of the key benefits to e-mail is that people -- anybody -- can get hold of me. I receive e-mails from complete strangers all over the country asking about Kinetic Sculpture Racing. This leads to all kinds of wonderful "pen-pal" exchanges and tutoring, and sometimes I eventually meet them in person at a race. But maybe I'm actually receiving only half of those who try to reach me? Bizarre.

Rant over.