Custom Built Camp Structure

[FIGJAM]

2 gallons last about 5 hours.

[Swope904]

I actually try to look up something before I ask a dumb question. And when I wasn't quite sure how to do it myself I figured I'd ask a question for help, and coyote you did a hell of a job of helping me, I really appreciate it buddy. Im gonna try to work on figuring everything out for the size on my own. Like I said before I rather build my burn then buy it. I'm sorry for asking a question. Im just looking for advice.

[Captain Goddammit]

I actually prefer the quiet genny/AC method.

[Swope904]

how many db is considered "quiet"?

Because I have never heard a "quiet" generator before?

[Captain Goddammit]

Generally under 60.

[GreyCoyote]

I actually try to look up something before I ask a dumb question. And when I wasn't quite sure how to do it myself I figured I'd ask a question for help, and coyote you did a hell of a job of helping me, I really appreciate it buddy. Im gonna try to work on figuring everything out for the size on my own. Like I said before I rather build my burn then buy it. I'm sorry for asking a question. Im just looking for advice.

Google "quiet generator". Then ignore everything you read and just buy a Honda EU2000i, or the Yamaha EF2000IS equivalent. There is a long discussion of these little units here on ePlaya. They are the size of a small suitcase, weigh-in at under 50 lbs, and will run all week on a couple of 5 gal containers of gas. Both can be paralleled with a twin generator for extra power with nothing more than a cable.

I should also point out that ePlayan Maladroit reports he has had excellent success with a Champion-brand inverter-style unit at about 1/3rd the cost of a Honda and comparable noise levels, so that deserves some serious investigation too. PM him and get the full skinny if you're looking to go that route.

What you DO NOT want is some big-box store, open-frame unit running a Brick & Strapon mill coupled to a pepper-box muffler going BRRAAAAPPPPPPPP at 3600 rpm all night long. Your neighbors will hate you for ever, try to kill it with a beer "fuel additive", or both. These things are the bane of BRC. IMHO, if you're running more than about 60 db at full load, you need to build a sound enclosure and work on your acoustic footprint.

Honda EU2000I: http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/ ... 23791&mt=b
Yamaha EF2000IS:
Champion:

[Captain Goddammit]

I go through 40 or 50 gallons with a pair of EU2000 Hondas out there.

[Swope904]

I have actually looked into gennys alot before. I know about the Yamaha's and Honda's and know they are amazing. I have been around them before and there really cool. But really expensive... ranging from about 700-1000 which is way out of my price range. Even the champions I have looked at oddly enough and watched youtube videos about them and they are pretty decent. but at 500+ bucks thats kind of out of my price range as well.

The most I could spend on one this year would be around 225 max. I know at that price their are not to many choices. I would not have the ability to lug some big worksite type generator or would even want to in the first place. Especially out there. Im coming from across the country so everything has to be light and tight. My real only options are the smaller type 800-1000 watt little Chinese generators that I see people complain about all the time. Those are my only options with a generator. Worse comes to worse ill do a couple of swamp coolers. But Theres no way I can spend that type of money on just a generator I use once a year.

[Swope904]

Generally under 60.

Ah ok. Sounds like a nice number. Thanks

I go through 40 or 50 gallons with a pair of EU2000 Hondas out there.

Thanks for the heads up.

[Captain Goddammit]

Theres no way I can spend that type of money on just a generator I use once a year.

Oh man... me neither... But wait til you see how Burning Man fucks up your priorities!
You wouldn't believe the 22,000 pounds of truck and trailer full of otherwise useless shit I've slowly acquired.
And I'm not the worst by any means! Nor am I rich.
Run away! Flee while you still can!!!

[GreyCoyote]

Swope: if you're thinking you can use one of those 2-stroke $199 specials rated at 800 watts for anything useful, think again. They suck. Hard. No frequency control, the voltage regulator is a capacitor (you can't make this up), and they sound like a weed-wacker on steroids. If they start (a big if), and assuming you can get them off the choke (playa elevation is 4000 feet, which 2-strokes hate), they will burn a hellish amount of fuel and oil compared to a "real" genny.

If you can't manage a real genny, camp with someone (or next to someone) who has one. You don't want to spend your burn trying to figure-out why your "little" 4 amp A/C won't start when it's connected to a "800 watt" generator, and why your string of LED lights just went supernova and then stopped working. The tales are truly legendary.

About the only thing these little guys can throw is a small battery charger. Not one of the computerized ones, but an old-school boat-anchor with a transformer, and even then just barely.

Save yer money. Lead-acid batteries may be your only option in this price range, which brings you back to a FIGJAM cooler...

[Swope904]

Wow yeah Didn't think about the elevation that would definitely make those things work twice as hard. A long with the noise which I know there horrible. So Ill just go ahead and rule that out as well.

Im probably just gonna go with building myself 2 figjam coolers. I might rent myself a Honda generator but for the amount of time which I would rent it (3 weeks) Its gonna be $500 bucks. Half the price of buying one. But I don't know what I will do yet. I figure 2 Figjam coolers would be enough at around 190cfm ea. if the fans are spinning at the full rpm. But then that's more water to hall for a whole week of use. But its a trade off if I lug a genny and gas cause its basically the same space with fuel.

Im gonna work on getting my yurt situation setup and had a test run before I move onto the next step of cooling it.

[Captain Goddammit]

I've got a friend who has rented Honda generators every year for several years. She says she's not gonna buy one, too expensive. I've pointed out the false economy, that she's already spent more than the purchase cost...
You can just bring a deep cycle battery or two and charge them from your idling car with jumper cables. If you do that the trick is to maximize the charge you get from your car's running time. The way to do that is with the heaviest gauge cables you can find, at least 2 gauge, not some shitty department store things with a sliver of wire wrapped in inch-thick plastic to give the impression of being real. And connect two or even three sets.
You'll get more current to the batteries and charge faster.
I found surprisingly cheap good 2-gauge ones at Lowes last summer that I ended up buying several sets of just because I needed good heavy cable for my Mutant Vehicle and couldn't buy the wire as cheap by itself.
If you ever want to know how well that really works, the next time you try to jump start a car that's so dead it still won't crank unless you let it charge a while, try hooking up a second set of cables at the same time and watch the engine crank right over.
Of course you'll want to arrive with as full a tank as possible and bring a few full gas cans.
But you should be able to FIGJAM-cool your space and run LED lights.

By the way, good on ya for taking a lot of shit from crusty old burners and sticking around anyway to learn what they can teach you once the dust settles.

[Captain Goddammit]

As always, try load-testing, operating and charging at home first - which it sounds like you'd have the sense to do.

[Swope904]

Yeah exactly I kind of don't want to through money into something I can't reuse or own. So I don't know if I would like to go that route.

I have looked into deep cycle batteries before as well. Could you help me out with something? How do I find out how long they will last? I have looked at the formulas online.

Lets say you battery is 12v 200ah. if you divided it by 20 it can supply a 10amp current for 20 hours until it drops to 10v. So lets say my AC runs a 4.5amps a full blast does that mean my AC will run for 44.444~ hours untill I should re charge? Cause I use some online calculators for Ah used in watts and it says it would be drained in 2 Hours. I would love a little help on the subject.

I found 1 Gauge jumper cables for around $70 bucks on amazon with free shipping rated for 800amps. I guess those are a good deal? It will probably still be a good investment either way if they work as good as you say they do. Which I do believe you.

But I didn't start off right as much as I liked to but I really really want to be apart of the community and actually help out once I can learn to walk and im not crawling anymore.

[theCryptofishist]

Crawl into the bar thread, make a couple of jokes, have a drink or two, and you're a member of the (eplaya) community.
For all the shit that we can deal out, we don't actually have high standards in terms of joining. Occasionally, someone just cuts too many people the wrong way and doesn't settle into a fit, but once you've made about ten posts, you're typically good here...

[FIGJAM]

Yeah exactly I kind of don't want to through money into something I can't reuse or own. So I don't know if I would like to go that route.

I have looked into deep cycle batteries before as well. Could you help me out with something? How do I find out how long they will last? I have looked at the formulas online.

Lets say you battery is 12v 200ah. if you divided it by 20 it can supply a 10amp current for 20 hours until it drops to 10v. So lets say my AC runs a 4.5amps a full blast does that mean my AC will run for 44.444~ hours untill I should re charge? Cause I use some online calculators for Ah used in watts and it says it would be drained in 2 Hours. I would love a little help on the subject.

You can only use half the available power in the battery.

If you discharge below 50% on a regular basis it will destroy the battery.

[Swope904]

Crawl into the bar thread, make a couple of jokes, have a drink or two, and you're a member of the (eplaya) community.
For all the shit that we can deal out, we don't actually have high standards in terms of joining. Occasionally, someone just cuts too many people the wrong way and doesn't settle into a fit, but once you've made about ten posts, you're typically good here...

Ill have to look for it

Yeah exactly I kind of don't want to through money into something I can't reuse or own. So I don't know if I would like to go that route.

I have looked into deep cycle batteries before as well. Could you help me out with something? How do I find out how long they will last? I have looked at the formulas online.

Lets say you battery is 12v 200ah. if you divided it by 20 it can supply a 10amp current for 20 hours until it drops to 10v. So lets say my AC runs a 4.5amps a full blast does that mean my AC will run for 44.444~ hours untill I should re charge? Cause I use some online calculators for Ah used in watts and it says it would be drained in 2 Hours. I would love a little help on the subject.

You can only use half the available power in the battery.

If you discharge below 50% on a regular basis it will destroy the battery.

Ah ok. After you said that I went and actually sall that on some other forms as well. So thats good to know.

Now I just have to figure out how the batteries discharge works lol. Im not quite sure how to fully calculate it.

[FIGJAM]

I have a 105AH battery.

That gives me 52.5 usable amp hours.

The bucket cooler uses about 1.5 amps per hour.

Divide 1.5 into 52.5 and you have the run time before you need to recharge.

[Elliot]

I have a 105AH battery.

That gives me 52.5 usable amp hours.

The bucket cooler uses about 1.5 amps. per hour

Divide 1.5 into 52.5 and you have the run time before you need to recharge.

I suspect a typo. See strike-out. Make sense?

[Captain Goddammit]

Check this post about electricity for burners I put up a while ago, it will explain what you wanna know in a super easy way:
viewtopic.php?f=278&t=65368

[FIGJAM]

I have a 105AH battery.

That gives me 52.5 usable amp hours.

The bucket cooler uses about 1.5 amps. per hour

Divide 1.5 into 52.5 and you have the run time before you need to recharge.

I suspect a typo. See strike-out. Make sense?

I've been useing this formula for the last 4 years to calculate my power needs and can't find the discrepancy.

Just running the cooler on that battery gives 35 hours of cooling.

5 hrs. a day for 7 days = 50% discharge.

I also have a 1 amp LED light and a 12 volt radio, so I've dipped below 50% for the week.

I'm adding a second battery this year.

[Lonesomebri]

Just buy the loudest generator you can find. Sure, it will piss off all your neighbors in BRC, but nobody with a generator really cares about that anyway.

[Elliot]

Figjam, your formula is correct. It's just a matter of two extra words that snuck in there. The bucket cooler draws 1.5 Amps, period. Divide Amps into Amp/Hours, and you get Hours.

[Swope904]

Thanks guys yeah I got it now.

[Captain Goddammit]

Just buy the loudest generator you can find. Sure, it will piss off all your neighbors in BRC, but nobody with a generator really cares about that anyway.

Lol if that was true I'd have saved a lot of money!

[Lonesomebri]

Just buy the loudest generator you can find. Sure, it will piss off all your neighbors in BRC, but nobody with a generator really cares about that anyway.

Lol if that was true I'd have saved a lot of money!

Of course this only applies to people I haven't met, who haven't served me the perfect Strawberry Margarita from a generator powered blender, added to the wonder of the night with the sublime vision of a trolling desert watercraft, handed me a ice cream sandwich out of their refrigerator on day 6, etc. Anyone using a generator that might at some point benefit me, or add to my enjoyment, those beautiful souls are the salt of the earth, the sound of their generator like a comforting roar of a blissful waterfall, cascading thru a parched river valley. Remember this if you see me roaming the playa in the future; I can be a very impotent enemy, or just as easy, a very impotent friend.

[Swope904]

Hey Captin when you were talking about charging the batteries and using two to three sets of 1 gauge jumper cables are you wiring them together before connecting to you car or just using the clamps on all the sets?

Also When using you car as a charger how much longer does it take compared to something like a generator? I know it depends on the amount of amps your alternator puts out but whats your average when you use your car vs a genny?

Like 10 hours for 100ah? or less or more? Just trying to get a feel here.

I might end of doing the battery pending on how fast I can recharge them.

[GreyCoyote]

When using your car as a charger how much longer does it take compared to something like a generator? I know it depends on the amount of amps your alternator puts out but whats your average when you use your car vs a genny? Like 10 hours for 100ah? or less or more? Just trying to get a feel here.

I might end up doing the battery pending how fast I can recharge them.

It takes about 4 hours in my experience to charge a 100AH battery up from 50% to 85% of charge using a car at idle. Lots of variables there, but that is what I would figure.

Note that the last 15% takes quite a bit longer. It's part of the battery chemistry, and unless you are using a solid-state microprocessor-controlled charger, there isn't any easy to shorten the charge time without hurting the long-term survival of the battery.

- Bulk charging is done at 13.8 to 14.2 volts
- Equalization charging is usually about 14.8 to 15.2 volts
- Float charging is 13.25 volts.

About all you can get from a standard "dumb" alternator is the bulk charging cycle, which gets you up to about the 85% mark... and this is usually good enough for "playa-duty". If you want to shorten the charging times and still get the battery fully topped-up, invest in a good 2A / 15-30A microprocessor-based charger and a genny.

[Captain Goddammit]

I meant simply taking a set of jumper cables and hooking them up with their clamps and then piling on another set, with its own clamps.
When using a generator, it's all about how big and fast the battery charger you plug into it is.
Portable generators like the Hondas do have 12V battery charging outputs but they are weak and no one uses them.
Grey Coyote answered pretty well about the car charging stuff.
If your car uses a side-terminal battery and you happen to replace it before August, get one with both side terminals and top posts. That gives you a better place to attach jumper cables. You can also install a "jump post" on your car somewhere if the battery is really buried, but do the same thing when installing it - instead of one cable connecting your jump post to the battery, double them up. The system is only as good as it's weakest link.