New car fees and more great ideas

[cosmic-honey]

The reason I put the boat in the avatar is because it's recognizable and a lot more people here get to meet in person.
When someone sees it they know it's me, and half the time they climb on.

Funny, that's how having my picture in my avatar works for me...

Can we just talk about how great that was? Rolling.

[unjonharley]

What all the worry..

Just how many of us are driving new cars this year?

[Captain Goddammit]

I'm fairly recognizable in my suit and tie and captain's hat… but the boat can be spotted easily from a hundred yards away. Even Eric would be lost in the crowd from a block away. At night there's zero comparison. Not using my own photo isn't so I can hide or be anonymous, it's just the opposite!

[unjonharley]

Look @ Me Look @ Me Look @ Me

Cap is so ugly it make your eyes water if you look right at him

[Misti]

I'm fairly recognizable in my suit and tie and captain's hat… but the boat can be spotted easily from a hundred yards away. Even Eric would be lost in the crowd from a block away. At night there's zero comparison. Not using my own photo isn't so I can hide or be anonymous, it's just the opposite!

Its true, I was stuck watching the webcam live feed last year and even though i have never met you or talked to you before, I saw your boat go by and said "hey its that guy!"

[FIGJAM]

Just read in the VP FAQ that you can register for a ticket and when the time comes to buy a ticket YOU CAN GET A PASS WITHOUT BUYING A TICKET!!!!!!!!!!

This makes no sense to me.

[Captain Goddammit]

Yes it does. What if you get a step ticket, or someone gives you a ticket, or you buy one on Craigslist… you gotta have a pass to go with them.

[FIGJAM]

Ok, but that seems counter to the rational of having the VPs in the first place.

Seems more practical to deal with all the regular ticket sales first, then deal with the other eventualities.

[Simon of the Playa]

vehicles are for pussies.

[Captain Goddammit]

Well FIGJAM are you saying that no one should be able to use their STEP ticket or one they buy from CL or get from a friend?

[FIGJAM]

Not even a little bit, just sell those passes after the main sales.

It looks like everybody can buy as many as they want, whenever they want them, so the whole thing seems pointless.

Fine by me.

I can DO pointless!!!

[SprinkmanPat]

I am just one Burner with a negative opinion and I am not under the influence of the BMorg "Kool-Aid"...In case no one noticed the Ticket Fee doubled last year from the year before...and BMorg in their love for us kept the same inflated rate for this year...then said how are we going to get more cash in the BMorg till...YES I have it...Genius...A Per Vehicle Fee...that will do it...we'll tack on $40.00 and tell them all it is for Road Up Keep and we will have a Green effect by having a smaller foot print on the environment...ALAS...The bottom line for me is...YES I will pay it...and YES I think it is just another BMorg Hustle IMHO...See all my Burner Brothers/ Sisters in the dust and hell mebbe exodus will only take 6 hours this year...lol

[PlayaPatrol]

Eric, sheep will happily pay $47 (including fees) per car this year, $67 next year and $107 in a few more years. If BMORG wanted to encourage carpooling they would only charge a car fee to those arriving with less then 2 or 3 per vehicle, like san diego decom youtopia does. Gas and everything else purchased in Nevada has taxes that goes to fix roads. We all buy stuff in Nevada. We all pay for Nevada roads. One of the reasons this is a bad idea is that it won't get cars off the road. 10 people arent going to be able to jam into giant vehicles with all their stuff. The choice is, leave most of your stuff behind, spend a ton on a trailer, or rent a huge gas hog vehicle. All way more expensive then paying $47. BMORG won't give all the $1.7 million to Nevada. They will keep most of it. Of course workers and volunteers like you will get a free ticket and free car pass so why would you care?

So you obviously didn't bother to read the part of the blog where it mentions that the state is charging BMorg more to repair damage to the road, seeing our week in the desert is the only heavy use it gets since the mine shuttered, and it gets A LOT of use for the month around Burning Man. Ever think that the vehicle fees might just go towards that, and that by limiting vehicles coming to the playa it helps ensure long-term security for the event?

Besides, you don't have to pay it if you don't want. You just won't be able to drive in by yourself.

[PlayaPatrol]

Enlighten me with your knowledge of road maintenance fees. Every single year I see lots and lots of giant 18 wheel trucks going both directions. If those are BM related they should pay. Those heavy vehicles are what destroy the roads. Not 2000 pound passenger cars. The roads have not decreased in quality since 2002. I haven't seen any new pavement since 2002. They want to pave the entire 447 from 80 to Gerlach on Burners backs?
Streets in major cities are much much worse with potholes. By the way, this was sold as a way to reduce number of cars. Now its a way to pay for road paving?

I see some of you have no idea what it costs to maintain/repair 80 + miles of road.

Especially if they are having to rebuild portions of it because of heavy loads chewing up the road base under the asphalt.

[PlayaPatrol]

I paid $35 to park at a 49ers game for 5 hours last month. $40 to park at Burning Man for a week and HOPEFULLY reduce the time I spend in line to and from the event sounds like money well spent to me.

And you paid $100 to go to the game and $15 per beer and hot dog. You not valuing your money does not equate to me not valuing my money. The Burner express might decrease traffic if ticket price is low but the car passes won't.

[Captain Goddammit]

I mean really... paying all that money to go to a 49ers game?

[Elliot]

The reason I put the boat in the avatar is because it's recognizable and a lot more people here get to meet in person.
When someone sees it they know it's me, and half the time they climb on.

Funny, that's how having my picture in my avatar works for me...

Can we just talk about how great that was? Rolling.

Let's get back to the good stuff here! Cosmic-Honey has it right; that was the best part of this thread. Let's pay attention to the important stuff!

"New" car was good too.

[reader2580]

The MN State Fair started charging for parking in the early 90s. At first, cars with 4 or more passengers got free parking to encourage car pooling. After a decade or so they started charging all cars for parking.

The MN State Fair at least used all the parking revenue to start a massive free park and ride system. I don't see Burning Man offering free park and ride shuttles from Fernley or Reno.

[BBadger]

The MN State Fair started charging for parking in the early 90s. At first, cars with 4 or more passengers got free parking to encourage car pooling. After a decade or so they started charging all cars for parking.

The MN State Fair at least used all the parking revenue to start a massive free park and ride system. I don't see Burning Man offering free park and ride shuttles from Fernley or Reno.

Yeah, because there is really no comparison.

If you weren't paying attention, Reno and Fernley are about 100 miles away from the playa compared to the 1-3 mile distance from the MN State Fair to the various Park and Ride spots around the area. Most of those visitors to the state fair aren't carrying in all their food, water, and shelter for living in a desert for an entire week either. Hell, they're probably planning on eating at the fair.

Oh, and let us know when you've found a parking lot in Reno, let alone Fernley, or even both, large enough to enable that park and rides to Burning Man. And when you've found that, let us know if the on-site security detail guarding the parking lot from thieves and vandals comes free too.

[fernley1]

No place like that here in Fernley, except maybe in the middle of a desert field.
But then you might as well park in the desert on the playa.

[^Rhino!]

"I haven't seen any new pavement since 2002. They want to pave the entire 447 from 80 to Gerlach on Burners backs?"

@Playa Patrol : Can't be done. The cost of asphalt pavement (assume Superpave standard for a state route, 8' shoulders and two lanes from Fernley to the 12-mile entrance point north of Gerlach) would be $336 million dollars if they started tomorrow.

$40 for a vehicle fee would not even put a dent in that for even 60,000 vehicles (2.4 million dollars). And, btw, Nevada DOT DID repair several washouts with new pavement. b That cost several hundred thousand dollars, paid for by the Federal government under an 'emergency fund' basis.

Truck damage to roadways starts at the 40,000 pound weight. Most trucks on the road today weigh in at 80,000 pounds maximum, with 4 axles, at 20,000 pounds per axle weight. Overweight fees pick up SOME of the tab for excess, but it's still the big trucks which cause the problems.

[trilobyte]

You're also assuming that the additional land wouldn't require more land. For most (if not all) of that stretch, the state holds just enough land to support the current width, as well as the required runoff. Widening it would require more land, which would require negotiations and whatnot with all of the affected landowners. IMO that could potentially cost more than the cost of construction.

[unjonharley]

This thread is like the weather..Everyone talks about it and no one dose anthing about it..

The BM road tax is stated to assist NDOT in maintain the roads.. It is by all measures a small token..

The roads from Reno and Cedarville have been kept in pretty good shape..

Now if all burner pay attention and car pool when possible.. The road will see less traffic.. Less traffic makes less entrance time... Less traffic makes less exit time..

Now go to the ride share thread and offer a seat in your vehicle..

I for one, will not pick up hitchers..

[^Rhino!]

You're also assuming that the additional land wouldn't require more land. For most (if not all) of that stretch, the state holds just enough land to support the current width, as well as the required runoff. Widening it would require more land, which would require negotiations and whatnot with all of the affected landowners. IMO that could potentially cost more than the cost of construction.

I'm assuming nothing. I'm saying reconstruction of the EXISTING would cost that much. And frankly, I don't think the Pyramid Lake Paiutes would sell us the land.

To paraphrase Lou Diamond Phillips on "Longmire" : Indians tend to be very nervous and suspicious when a white man hands them a piece of paper to sign....

[trilobyte]

On a stretch of land like that, there'd likely be dozens of eminent domain lawsuits - even if money wasn't an issue, it'd take years to wade through that.

[^Rhino!]

This thread is like the weather..Everyone talks about it and no one dose anthing about it..

The BM road tax is stated to assist NDOT in maintain the roads.. It is by all measures a small token..

The roads from Reno and Cedarville have been kept in pretty good shape..

Now if all burner pay attention and car pool when possible.. The road will see less traffic.. Less traffic makes less entrance time... Less traffic makes less exit time..

Now go to the ride share thread and offer a seat in your vehicle..

I for one, will not pick up hitchers..

The money that NDOT will get will pay for a lot....traffic control barriers and cones on the higways, the lighted signage along the road, maintenance vehicles putting down a cold-mix asphalt in potholes that develop, but it won't pay for much beyond that.

I'm planning on carpooling.

[^Rhino!]

On a stretch of land like that, there'd likely be dozens of eminent domain lawsuits - even if money wasn't an issue, it'd take years to wade through that.

You mean the eminent domain lawsuits for the non-Indian land, which is just a third of the overall length. You'd have to pull in BIA representation to understand the other two thirds.

[Elliot]

At the risk of repeating myself….
The formula is simple:



Cars
-------------------- = Hours
Cars per hour



We know Cars, and Cars per hour; solve for Hours.



30,000
----------- = Extend the event so people can trickle in and out over more days.
1,000

[trilobyte]

Yes, I mean that the eminent domain lawsuits would take years to wade through. Indian affairs is a whole other can of worms, as is the not-insignificant issue of cost. The problem with 'just widen the road' and other simple-minded solutions is that... they just don't work when it comes to a complicated issue. Funnier still is when proposed solutions from outsiders (often with no direct experience) just assume that nobody has been working on the problem for a decade or more.

Getting things back onto the topic of the vehicle fee, as more time has gone on I'm even more in favor of it than I was when it was announced (and I was okay with it from the start). Incentivizing rideshares, carpooling, and mass transit is a good thing. Forget the road wear and tear, and forget pollution... fewer vehicles means less traffic going in and coming out. FYI, there'll be more on the subject of traffic this summer (on the board and in the JRS) as we get closer to the event.

[Captain Goddammit]

I am more opposed to it than ever. $40 is a drop in the bucket of the cost to get to Burning Man. It wouldn't even play a part in any way over my decision about how to get there and I doubt it would affect many other's plans. Limiting the number of passes would do it but a trivial $40 fee won't.
It does conveniently squeeze a tidy sum of extra money out of the participants.
Most of us can see it's bullshit no matter how the org sugar-coats it.

It seems the event is just outgrowing itself. I can't say some other issues didn't have a lot to do with it, but this bs program definitely played a part in my decision to not attend this year.
An honest $40 ticket price wouldn't have pissed me off. I was actually expecting that. Being told so much crap that clearly isn't true annoys the hell out of me.

Hey I guess it did take a vehicle off the road!!