Warning, I am what amounts to an 8th generation Texan, my ancestors faced the Black Flag and accepted it.
Real quick here; by and large I think that samtzu nailed it, with a few disagreements. I was not that upset with the 2000 election, shit happens and as far as prisoners go I think that they should be thrilled that they were still alive; I personally don't give a rats ass. However, Bush appointed Ashcroft as Attorney General, this is a man that I consider clinically insane. I liked the way that Bush handled 9/11 and the Afganistan war. BUT, this Iraq 'thing' and the appeal to the religious and the compounding of the fears of the ignorant disgust me.
Yes I think I have nailed it myself. I do not hate Bush, he simply disgusts me.
Re-reading; if you do not understand the black flag reference, look it up.
Where's all the smack talkers NOW????????
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geekster
- Posts: 4865
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Can you articulate any particular thing Ashcroft has done that particularly bothers you since he has been AG? I am just wondering if there is anything specific. I heard all the negative stuff about him but so far I haven't actually SEEN anything unusual out of the guy that makes him stand out any more than other AG's of the recent past. The only thing I can think of off hand was his covering of the statues in the DOJ meeting room because he found them distasteful in their semi-nudity.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
from htp://www.thenation.com Davis Corn
It's 3:30 AM. Ohio looks bad for John Kerry. He's down 180,000 votes. There may be 175,000 provisional ballots. But can Kerry win practically every single one and find other votes there? Kerry is losing by 1,700 votes in New Mexico and 15,000 in Iowa. John Edwards appeared before Kerry supporters in Copley Square and promised that the Kerry campaign will fight to count every vote. But the Kerry ticket is behind in the national numbers, on the short end of a 51-48 split, trailing Bush by almost 4 million votes, with 93 percent of the precincts reporting. The election was close, achingly close. There may be an odd bounce or two yet to come. But the safe assumption is that George W. Bush will emerge the winner of the electoral vote and the popular vote. It's a sad morning in America.
The electorate almost engaged in a much-needed political correction. It almost undid the asterisk of 2000. Instead, voters legitimized the fellow who gained the White House against the will of the majority and who then pretended he had a mandate and subsequently pushed tax cuts for the well-to-do and launched a war predicated on untrue assertions. So there will be no good-bye to reckless preemptive war, an economic policy based on tax breaks tilted toward the wealthy, a war on environmental regulations, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, excessive secrecy in government, unilateral machismo, the neocon theology of hubris and arrogance, a ban on effective stem cell research, no-bid Halliburton contracts, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, and much more. Did I mention Dick Cheney?
Bush lied his way into office and lied his way through his presidency. His reelection campaign was based on derision and disingenuousness; he mischaracterized Kerry and his positions and touted successes that did not exist. And now, it seems, he got away with it. He was not punished for leading the country into a war that was not necessary. He was not booted for having overstated the WMD threat from Iraq. He paid no price for failing to plan adequately for the post-invasion period. Iraq remains his mess. And the United States and the world remains at the mercy of a gang that, no doubt, will feel even more emboldened to pursue their misguided policies.
The good news: America is a divided nation. Despite the pundit hand-wringing over this fact, it is a positive thing. Nearly--nearly--half of the electorate rejected Bush's leadership, his agenda, his priorities, his falsehoods. From Eminem to the chairman of Bank of America to 48 Nobel laureates to gangbangers who joined anti-Bush get-out-the-vote efforts in swing states. Nearly half of the voting public concluded that Bush had caused the deaths of over 1,100 American GIs and literally countless Iraqis (maybe 100,000) for no compelling reason. Nearly half saw the emperor buck naked and butt ugly. Nearly half said no to his rash actions and dishonest justifications. Nearly half realized that Bush had misrepresented the war in Iraq as a crucial part of the effort against al Qaeda and Islamic jihadism. Nearly half desired better and more honest leadership. Nearly half knew that Bush has led the country astray.
Other good news: Second-term presidents often hit the skids. The last three second- terms were marked by scandal (Watergate, Iran-contra, Monicagate). And as top officials sprint through the revolving door to snag high-paying jobs (while their contacts are fresh), the job of running the government during the second administration often falls to the B Team. In the post-9/11 world, this is not all that reassuring. But the historical trend does suggest that Bush will have trouble enacting his various schemes. Yet--let's be realistic--the Senate results indicate that the GOP will expand its majority in the Senate, which means Bush will have more allies for his wrongheaded missions.
More good news; Bush will not be able to hand off his own wreckage--Iraq and the gargantuan deficit--to a new man. But this does not mean he will accept responsibility and deal with it. Bush has the ability to deny and defy reality. And if he cannot see that the trash has piled up, he will not be hauling it to the curb.
Okay, no more good news. I can't stand all this good news. Bush has bamboozled and frightened just enough Americans to gain the opportunity to flimflam them for another four years. And the rest of the country--and the globe--will be along for the dangerous ride.
It's 3:30 AM. Ohio looks bad for John Kerry. He's down 180,000 votes. There may be 175,000 provisional ballots. But can Kerry win practically every single one and find other votes there? Kerry is losing by 1,700 votes in New Mexico and 15,000 in Iowa. John Edwards appeared before Kerry supporters in Copley Square and promised that the Kerry campaign will fight to count every vote. But the Kerry ticket is behind in the national numbers, on the short end of a 51-48 split, trailing Bush by almost 4 million votes, with 93 percent of the precincts reporting. The election was close, achingly close. There may be an odd bounce or two yet to come. But the safe assumption is that George W. Bush will emerge the winner of the electoral vote and the popular vote. It's a sad morning in America.
The electorate almost engaged in a much-needed political correction. It almost undid the asterisk of 2000. Instead, voters legitimized the fellow who gained the White House against the will of the majority and who then pretended he had a mandate and subsequently pushed tax cuts for the well-to-do and launched a war predicated on untrue assertions. So there will be no good-bye to reckless preemptive war, an economic policy based on tax breaks tilted toward the wealthy, a war on environmental regulations, a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, excessive secrecy in government, unilateral machismo, the neocon theology of hubris and arrogance, a ban on effective stem cell research, no-bid Halliburton contracts, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, and much more. Did I mention Dick Cheney?
Bush lied his way into office and lied his way through his presidency. His reelection campaign was based on derision and disingenuousness; he mischaracterized Kerry and his positions and touted successes that did not exist. And now, it seems, he got away with it. He was not punished for leading the country into a war that was not necessary. He was not booted for having overstated the WMD threat from Iraq. He paid no price for failing to plan adequately for the post-invasion period. Iraq remains his mess. And the United States and the world remains at the mercy of a gang that, no doubt, will feel even more emboldened to pursue their misguided policies.
The good news: America is a divided nation. Despite the pundit hand-wringing over this fact, it is a positive thing. Nearly--nearly--half of the electorate rejected Bush's leadership, his agenda, his priorities, his falsehoods. From Eminem to the chairman of Bank of America to 48 Nobel laureates to gangbangers who joined anti-Bush get-out-the-vote efforts in swing states. Nearly half of the voting public concluded that Bush had caused the deaths of over 1,100 American GIs and literally countless Iraqis (maybe 100,000) for no compelling reason. Nearly half saw the emperor buck naked and butt ugly. Nearly half said no to his rash actions and dishonest justifications. Nearly half realized that Bush had misrepresented the war in Iraq as a crucial part of the effort against al Qaeda and Islamic jihadism. Nearly half desired better and more honest leadership. Nearly half knew that Bush has led the country astray.
Other good news: Second-term presidents often hit the skids. The last three second- terms were marked by scandal (Watergate, Iran-contra, Monicagate). And as top officials sprint through the revolving door to snag high-paying jobs (while their contacts are fresh), the job of running the government during the second administration often falls to the B Team. In the post-9/11 world, this is not all that reassuring. But the historical trend does suggest that Bush will have trouble enacting his various schemes. Yet--let's be realistic--the Senate results indicate that the GOP will expand its majority in the Senate, which means Bush will have more allies for his wrongheaded missions.
More good news; Bush will not be able to hand off his own wreckage--Iraq and the gargantuan deficit--to a new man. But this does not mean he will accept responsibility and deal with it. Bush has the ability to deny and defy reality. And if he cannot see that the trash has piled up, he will not be hauling it to the curb.
Okay, no more good news. I can't stand all this good news. Bush has bamboozled and frightened just enough Americans to gain the opportunity to flimflam them for another four years. And the rest of the country--and the globe--will be along for the dangerous ride.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
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geekster
- Posts: 4865
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Uhm, in absolute dollars the deficit is gargantuan. As a percentage of GDP, it isn't. The US economy is much larger so while the deficit is also larger, it is smaller in relation to the US economy that it has been in the fairly recent past. Much smaller, in fact.
It is rhetoric like the above that marginalizes the left in the US. It is one thing to have an opinion or an ideology, it is quite another to twist and distort things for no other purpose than to show the other side in an ill light. I see nothing in that article that says how the Democrats path is better, all I see is criticism. It is yet another example of the kind of stuff that has recently been shown not to work.
As someone posted in another thread ... don't beat your head against a reality, obsolete it. Show a better path. Explain it. That article is pretty easy to dismiss as sour grapes.
All of that kind of rhetoric in the world isn't going to advance the cause of the Democratic Party. In fact, it might just do the opposite. It might make Democrats feel better to vent a little but it isn't going to do much to reach out to the other side and convert anyone.
It just seems like many on the left are saying "you suck if you are not on our side" and the right is saying ... "maybe, but there are more of us than there are of you and our numbers and influence are growing while yours are shrinking". Waiving hands and gnashing teeth won't get the job done for you. I know it must be frustrating but relax a little. What is done is done. You guys need to get to work CALMLY educating people and LISTENING to their concerns and addressing them. Calling them stupid for thinking the way they do is going to just about guarantee they are never going to listen to you. And that goes equally for BOTH sides.
It is rhetoric like the above that marginalizes the left in the US. It is one thing to have an opinion or an ideology, it is quite another to twist and distort things for no other purpose than to show the other side in an ill light. I see nothing in that article that says how the Democrats path is better, all I see is criticism. It is yet another example of the kind of stuff that has recently been shown not to work.
As someone posted in another thread ... don't beat your head against a reality, obsolete it. Show a better path. Explain it. That article is pretty easy to dismiss as sour grapes.
All of that kind of rhetoric in the world isn't going to advance the cause of the Democratic Party. In fact, it might just do the opposite. It might make Democrats feel better to vent a little but it isn't going to do much to reach out to the other side and convert anyone.
It just seems like many on the left are saying "you suck if you are not on our side" and the right is saying ... "maybe, but there are more of us than there are of you and our numbers and influence are growing while yours are shrinking". Waiving hands and gnashing teeth won't get the job done for you. I know it must be frustrating but relax a little. What is done is done. You guys need to get to work CALMLY educating people and LISTENING to their concerns and addressing them. Calling them stupid for thinking the way they do is going to just about guarantee they are never going to listen to you. And that goes equally for BOTH sides.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
you oughta read David Corn's book the lies of Bush. If you think progressives will simply put all this aside and "get on with their lives", you're dreaming, and he is as big a critic of the dems as the reps. You miss the entire point of the article which is not saying "if you disagree you suck' re-read it please
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
..can also check out http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0407/S00040.htm
for info on the US economy
for info on the US economy
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believe is false."- William Casey, CIA Director 1981
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geekster
- Posts: 4865
- Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
- Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing
- Contact:
What will happen in 2008?
Hillary will be the Democratic candidate. That is pretty much a given. She is probably the strongest candidate the party has. She will not be running against a sitting president. She will have lost her Senate seat to Rudolf Giuliani, former mayor of NYC in 2006. Kerry will probably never be seen again in national politics if the pattern of what happens to people that lose against a sitting president holds.
Who will she run against? Potential Republican candidates in my opinion would be:
Sen. Elizabeth Dole (NC)
Sen. John McCain (Ariz)
Sen.(?) Rudy Giuliani (NY)
Gov. George Pataki (NY)
Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass)
Gov. Gordon Smith (Oregon)
Of these I would probably favor McCain.
Hillary will be the Democratic candidate. That is pretty much a given. She is probably the strongest candidate the party has. She will not be running against a sitting president. She will have lost her Senate seat to Rudolf Giuliani, former mayor of NYC in 2006. Kerry will probably never be seen again in national politics if the pattern of what happens to people that lose against a sitting president holds.
Who will she run against? Potential Republican candidates in my opinion would be:
Sen. Elizabeth Dole (NC)
Sen. John McCain (Ariz)
Sen.(?) Rudy Giuliani (NY)
Gov. George Pataki (NY)
Gov. Mitt Romney (Mass)
Gov. Gordon Smith (Oregon)
Of these I would probably favor McCain.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
Fuck America
All the Pundits, and even some Democrats are now speaking of trying to become "Engaged" in discussion and ideas with the Bushittes, and you hear other Pundits saying the Democratic Party needs to come more to the center to attract more right-wingers.
FUCK THAT... FUCK THEM.
I spent the better half of the last 2-3 years trying to engage these idiiots, I will not spend the next 4 years doing so.
Everyone has to figure out what works best themselves on how to handle this nightmare.
Grieving is a very good comparison, for after all, our country, what we knew, and thought of it, is dead.
And coming to that realization has made it a lot better for me. From here on out, I don't give a flying Fuck about any of the problems with this Nation, for I no longer see it as my nation, and the Right-Winger Morons who voted for Bush can deal with the problems now, they made their bed, and they can lie in it.
This is me from here on out....
"Whats that you say? A Bunch of GI's just got blown up in Iraq? Really? wow... thats too bad."
"$650 Billion Dollar Deficit this year? really... huh... well aint that suimthun"
"Kids in Georgia have had Evolution in their Science Textbooks replaced with Creationism? Really... you dont say."
"4 Woman died last week getting Coat-Hanger Abortions in Alabama? Really? hey... Pass the Ketsup will ya?"
"Whats that? Newly Minted Iraqi Terrorists just set off a Baby Nuke in Dallas? really? Huh... so whats on Comedy Central tonight?"
I DONT FUCKING CARE.
Due to Geographic & Finianical circumstance, I am living in America. However someday this will change, either by physically moving to somewhere else, or by my geographic surroundings becoming something else.
Until that time, I really don't give a shit as to what happens with this dying nation.
For a good article on the Ethics of Secession click here...
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Trea ... ssion.html
Philsophical point of view...
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/secession/
Non Violent Secession Strategies...
http://www.secession.net/secession-strategy.html
- Patamon
FUCK THAT... FUCK THEM.
I spent the better half of the last 2-3 years trying to engage these idiiots, I will not spend the next 4 years doing so.
Everyone has to figure out what works best themselves on how to handle this nightmare.
Grieving is a very good comparison, for after all, our country, what we knew, and thought of it, is dead.
And coming to that realization has made it a lot better for me. From here on out, I don't give a flying Fuck about any of the problems with this Nation, for I no longer see it as my nation, and the Right-Winger Morons who voted for Bush can deal with the problems now, they made their bed, and they can lie in it.
This is me from here on out....
"Whats that you say? A Bunch of GI's just got blown up in Iraq? Really? wow... thats too bad."
"$650 Billion Dollar Deficit this year? really... huh... well aint that suimthun"
"Kids in Georgia have had Evolution in their Science Textbooks replaced with Creationism? Really... you dont say."
"4 Woman died last week getting Coat-Hanger Abortions in Alabama? Really? hey... Pass the Ketsup will ya?"
"Whats that? Newly Minted Iraqi Terrorists just set off a Baby Nuke in Dallas? really? Huh... so whats on Comedy Central tonight?"
I DONT FUCKING CARE.
Due to Geographic & Finianical circumstance, I am living in America. However someday this will change, either by physically moving to somewhere else, or by my geographic surroundings becoming something else.
Until that time, I really don't give a shit as to what happens with this dying nation.
For a good article on the Ethics of Secession click here...
http://web.inter.nl.net/users/Paul.Trea ... ssion.html
Philsophical point of view...
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/secession/
Non Violent Secession Strategies...
http://www.secession.net/secession-strategy.html
- Patamon
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cowboyangel
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geekster
- Posts: 4865
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You don't seriously believe that, do you? Don't worry about now, the issue is settled for now. There is nothing you can do about it. There is nothing any of us can do about it. It is over. The only thing you CAN do is work towards 4 years from now. And yes, I am pretty sure there will be a US in its currently recognizable form 4 years from now.cowboyangel wrote:Hillary? give me a fuckin break....we're thinking about now not 4 years from now when there may not even be a US in any recognizable form to think about....
Have you really bought into all rhetoric, have you? Please tell me it isn't so.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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cowboyangel
- Posts: 6986
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 10:32 pm
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geekster
- Posts: 4865
- Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
- Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing
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Sure, there is a lot of shit going on. Of course there is. And a lot of it is just spun out of control rhetoric from both sides too. Each side tries to make the other look worse than it really is. You know what? It is just going to get worse and there is nothing ANYONE in the US is going to be able to do about it because it is all going to be because of things going on outside of the US.
During the next 10 years China will become such a resource sponge that the cost of basic commodities such as coal, steel, nickle, oil, aluminum, and rice will skyrocket. China alone may have as many cars as exist on the rest of the entire planet. They will be dumping about half the world's CO2 and sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere. Oh, and they are exempt from the Kyoto agreement ... which is why we refuse to sign it. The water pollution they are going to generate will make our dirtiest rivers look like a mountain spring ... and there isn't a single fucking law we can pass here to change it. No amount of American clean air laws or conservation will stop it. With China and India developing quickly, we are going to become nothing more than a small drop in a big bucket. Brazil is going to be a major supplier of these raw materials. They are already in the process of planning a dozen large steel mills on their coast. The Amazon basin is going to be ripped up and shipped one boatload at a time to China and India. Not a single bit is screaming, yelling, jumping up and down, or legislating here in the US is going to make any difference at all. Our overall portion of resource consumption and goods production in this world is shrinking.
I guess our only hope for long-term prosperity and stability is to lob a nuke into China and make it look like India did it.
During the next 10 years China will become such a resource sponge that the cost of basic commodities such as coal, steel, nickle, oil, aluminum, and rice will skyrocket. China alone may have as many cars as exist on the rest of the entire planet. They will be dumping about half the world's CO2 and sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere. Oh, and they are exempt from the Kyoto agreement ... which is why we refuse to sign it. The water pollution they are going to generate will make our dirtiest rivers look like a mountain spring ... and there isn't a single fucking law we can pass here to change it. No amount of American clean air laws or conservation will stop it. With China and India developing quickly, we are going to become nothing more than a small drop in a big bucket. Brazil is going to be a major supplier of these raw materials. They are already in the process of planning a dozen large steel mills on their coast. The Amazon basin is going to be ripped up and shipped one boatload at a time to China and India. Not a single bit is screaming, yelling, jumping up and down, or legislating here in the US is going to make any difference at all. Our overall portion of resource consumption and goods production in this world is shrinking.
I guess our only hope for long-term prosperity and stability is to lob a nuke into China and make it look like India did it.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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spectabillis
- Posts: 3527
- Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:07 pm
- Burning Since: 2022
- Location: black rock city
From: God's Bio-Engineering Dept.
To: Third Planet, Earth
Subject: Accumulation of Intent
Date Entry: Thu Nov 3, 2004, 1:54 AM
We scoured the past of rocks for your language and cultural secretions, we found nothing. A blank archaeological record of your history report card says you failed.
So we had to reverse install something against time, a virus. A collection was made from blood-sucking insect samples of amber to salvage certain protein strains that formed the genetic basis of our engineering efforts. Otherwise, all samples would be organically incompatible and rejected. Its shocking how much your earlier chromosomes were random trash, you really were a bunch of ignorant apes who got lucky with irradiated DNA. Mutations, how ironic that is how you refer to your salvation.
You claim that your creativity resulted from a series of gradual cognitive and cultural accumulations? How arrogant you have become. You were struggling with survival in an incredibly hostile world; you were an inferior species quickly becoming extinct. We felt so sorry and ashamed for you, our pets, we had such high expectations.
So how to save you? About 60,000 years ago in the period you refer to as Upper Paleolithic, we first introduced the Thorax Agent. A nasty little virus that created a two-stage tumor growth and most of you died. That was the first indication of some pathogens that we overlooked, we made a few mistakes. But your survivors all formed a cancerous growth in your throat that when healed, formed the early scar tissue of what you now refer to as vocal chords.
So now you could speak, but that was not important since you still lacked even basic intelligence to use your guttural sounds in any symbolic way. What was important, the second-stage action of the Thorax Agent in your genetic preparation of what was next. The agent had an amino-chemical action of transition on your eighth, tenth, and thirteenth chromosomes. We could only push your genes so far over so much time, so we had to both prepare and cultivate your DNA.
Over the next 10-15,000 years you widely spread around the globe, even reaching Australia by boat for the first time which surprised us. You had been developing tools, but this was an exceptional feat. At this point we thought you just might have a chance for long-term survival so we instigated the next step.
A genetic charge agent was introduced within the pollen of Orchids. Those flowers were everywhere, and even though you had become fond of sniffing their pleasant fragrance, the spread of this charge agent would be far enough to eventually creep into you all. It was a successful introduction, and even though this agent caused massive numbers to develop into a mindless coma, the survivors had a radical redevelopment of the cognitive structures of your brain. This was your all-important genotype of creativity, of self-reflection and the ability to imagine things.
And all along you thought you 'evolved naturally?' What a self-delusional joke you have become on yourselves. You’re just a bunch of domesticated cosmic pets, an experiment really.
And now you choose a Neolithic Neanderthal like George Bush to be your leading representative? To think of all that wasted effort. Its time to flick another asteroid at you and start all over again. Maybe with insects this time, bees?
~spectabillis[/b]
To: Third Planet, Earth
Subject: Accumulation of Intent
Date Entry: Thu Nov 3, 2004, 1:54 AM
We scoured the past of rocks for your language and cultural secretions, we found nothing. A blank archaeological record of your history report card says you failed.
So we had to reverse install something against time, a virus. A collection was made from blood-sucking insect samples of amber to salvage certain protein strains that formed the genetic basis of our engineering efforts. Otherwise, all samples would be organically incompatible and rejected. Its shocking how much your earlier chromosomes were random trash, you really were a bunch of ignorant apes who got lucky with irradiated DNA. Mutations, how ironic that is how you refer to your salvation.
You claim that your creativity resulted from a series of gradual cognitive and cultural accumulations? How arrogant you have become. You were struggling with survival in an incredibly hostile world; you were an inferior species quickly becoming extinct. We felt so sorry and ashamed for you, our pets, we had such high expectations.
So how to save you? About 60,000 years ago in the period you refer to as Upper Paleolithic, we first introduced the Thorax Agent. A nasty little virus that created a two-stage tumor growth and most of you died. That was the first indication of some pathogens that we overlooked, we made a few mistakes. But your survivors all formed a cancerous growth in your throat that when healed, formed the early scar tissue of what you now refer to as vocal chords.
So now you could speak, but that was not important since you still lacked even basic intelligence to use your guttural sounds in any symbolic way. What was important, the second-stage action of the Thorax Agent in your genetic preparation of what was next. The agent had an amino-chemical action of transition on your eighth, tenth, and thirteenth chromosomes. We could only push your genes so far over so much time, so we had to both prepare and cultivate your DNA.
Over the next 10-15,000 years you widely spread around the globe, even reaching Australia by boat for the first time which surprised us. You had been developing tools, but this was an exceptional feat. At this point we thought you just might have a chance for long-term survival so we instigated the next step.
A genetic charge agent was introduced within the pollen of Orchids. Those flowers were everywhere, and even though you had become fond of sniffing their pleasant fragrance, the spread of this charge agent would be far enough to eventually creep into you all. It was a successful introduction, and even though this agent caused massive numbers to develop into a mindless coma, the survivors had a radical redevelopment of the cognitive structures of your brain. This was your all-important genotype of creativity, of self-reflection and the ability to imagine things.
And all along you thought you 'evolved naturally?' What a self-delusional joke you have become on yourselves. You’re just a bunch of domesticated cosmic pets, an experiment really.
And now you choose a Neolithic Neanderthal like George Bush to be your leading representative? To think of all that wasted effort. Its time to flick another asteroid at you and start all over again. Maybe with insects this time, bees?
~spectabillis[/b]
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tonytohono
- Posts: 1559
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:37 pm
- Contact:
I'll side with you Cowboy. Man Geekster, I had no idea you were such a flag waving right winger nut job. Sure you haven't actually dropped trou to show the bush tattoo on your ass, but man, they are loving the fact that you are firmly planted in their corner. At least it is obvious you possess actual intelligence, unlike the man you continually defend.
This is the second most aggrivating day in my life this week, yesterday being the first
This is the second most aggrivating day in my life this week, yesterday being the first
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geekster
- Posts: 4865
- Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:53 pm
- Location: Hospice For The Terminally Breathing
- Contact:
Flag waving right wing nut job? Huh? That is funny. Republicans think I am way too left, particularly on social issues. What made you think I am a right-wing flag waiver? The part where I said I dont think the country will be destroyed in 4 years? Or the part where I pointed out a couple of distortions in that article cowboy posted? I am not, though, a right-wing nut case as you put it. I just don't drink the kool-aid that the extreme left nut cases are serving either.tonytohono wrote:I'll side with you Cowboy. Man Geekster, I had no idea you were such a flag waving right winger nut job. Sure you haven't actually dropped trou to show the bush tattoo on your ass, but man, they are loving the fact that you are firmly planted in their corner. At least it is obvious you possess actual intelligence, unlike the man you continually defend.
This is the second most aggrivating day in my life this week, yesterday being the first
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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samtzu
- Posts: 3403
- Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:56 pm
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Tony, Geekster has earned his chops. He is a thoughtful, honest person. insulting him and calling him names does not take away from that fact. He has integrety. He has made his choices based on what he thinks is best, and I have never seen him engage in reckless rhetoric, unlike others on these threads. Whatever his reasons for voting the way he did (since it was by secret ballot, I don't really know how he voted) they are honest ones. Let's try to show him the same honesty in our replies. Spewing venom does no good to anyone. I may disagree with Geekster (politically) but I agree with his right to be treated as a thinking, caring, individual.tonytohono wrote:I'll side with you Cowboy. Man Geekster, I had no idea you were such a flag waving right winger nut job. Sure you haven't actually dropped trou to show the bush tattoo on your ass, but man, they are loving the fact that you are firmly planted in their corner. At least it is obvious you possess actual intelligence, unlike the man you continually defend.
This is the second most aggrivating day in my life this week, yesterday being the first
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer
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tonytohono
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Geek,
I meant no offence. It was all said tongue in cheek. You're obviously far too well informed to be a real nut job. I have learned quite a bit from your posts, which is more than I can say from most of the drivel I get from people who seem to be in the right corner.
Anyway, accept my apology. But Geek, I have not seen you standing up for any of the democratic ideals around here, in fact, you do a good job of knocking them every chance you get, so I am going to assume you are more right than left. Standing up for the GOP, in particular, the current administration, takes anyone down several notches in my book.
Sam- geek hardly needs you nipping at my heels.
I meant no offence. It was all said tongue in cheek. You're obviously far too well informed to be a real nut job. I have learned quite a bit from your posts, which is more than I can say from most of the drivel I get from people who seem to be in the right corner.
Anyway, accept my apology. But Geek, I have not seen you standing up for any of the democratic ideals around here, in fact, you do a good job of knocking them every chance you get, so I am going to assume you are more right than left. Standing up for the GOP, in particular, the current administration, takes anyone down several notches in my book.
Sam- geek hardly needs you nipping at my heels.
So geekster, you're right in the middle of that demographic that I don't understand. You consider yourself a little "left" on social issues, presumably gay rights and abortion (am I right?). If that's the case, how can you NOT do everything in your power to prevent the neo-cons from outlawing abortion, or ammending the constitution to ban gay marriage? After Tuesday, there's nothing to prevent either of these.
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geekster
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I live in California. Our Republicans here tend to be pro choice and pro gay rights. They won't outlaw abortion here or pass a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage. Maybe I need to move to another state to be more effective in my own personal causes.Alpha wrote:So geekster, you're right in the middle of that demographic that I don't understand. You consider yourself a little "left" on social issues, presumably gay rights and abortion (am I right?). If that's the case, how can you NOT do everything in your power to prevent the neo-cons from outlawing abortion, or ammending the constitution to ban gay marriage? After Tuesday, there's nothing to prevent either of these.
Pabst Blue Ribbon - The beer that made Gerlach famous.
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aforceforgood
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forget "tyranny of the masses" here's a much catch
Bush won the popular vote huh?
I'm still waiting to hear how many votes the electronic voting machines (with no paper trail) were responsible for delivering to Bush and how they correspond to his favorable margin.
And laying uneasy conspiracy theories aside, Bush got reelected by the fat part of the bell curve who voted for him because he said he believes in their kind of morality, and because their churches handed out a voter guide with bushes name on it, which relieved them of the burden of puzzling out for themselves what Bushes likely actions will be given his history.
Which means laying aside what he says he's for (not using our military for nation-building is one glaring lie) and looking at what he's actually for.
It amazes me that people actually feel proud of re-electing an imperialistic theocratic civil-liberty curtailing constitution-hostile moron. It's one thing to make a mistake once, but to then repeat it after four years of experiencing the negative results is inexcusable. Such is the power of propaganda.
Science and statistical theory proves we are ruled by idiots.
Good strategy points to remember going into 2008.
I'm still waiting to hear how many votes the electronic voting machines (with no paper trail) were responsible for delivering to Bush and how they correspond to his favorable margin.
And laying uneasy conspiracy theories aside, Bush got reelected by the fat part of the bell curve who voted for him because he said he believes in their kind of morality, and because their churches handed out a voter guide with bushes name on it, which relieved them of the burden of puzzling out for themselves what Bushes likely actions will be given his history.
Which means laying aside what he says he's for (not using our military for nation-building is one glaring lie) and looking at what he's actually for.
It amazes me that people actually feel proud of re-electing an imperialistic theocratic civil-liberty curtailing constitution-hostile moron. It's one thing to make a mistake once, but to then repeat it after four years of experiencing the negative results is inexcusable. Such is the power of propaganda.
Science and statistical theory proves we are ruled by idiots.
Good strategy points to remember going into 2008.
Be the dime you seek.
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tonytohono
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For the benefit of anyone wondering what I am talking about, the following are but a few of geek's quotes from various threads around here.
Seems like your defending Bush here geek. And it's a valid point to an extent. Here's another:All this outragious hate against Bush started because people were pissed that he lost the popular vote in 2000 so his presidency was not "legitimate". Well, this time it is. He not only won the largest number of absolute votes, he also got a larger percentage of the popular vote than Clinton ever got.
OR this:I think what people are missing is that the Democrats are increasingly seen as the party of the urban elite. They have lost touch. This campaign was built on criticism, not education. Rather than lay out a clear plan, they simply harped on the Republican plan.
I mean, I could find countless others but it would take up pages of this forum. if this isn't defending the GOP I don't know what is. You may have voted for an Indy, but you are sounding more republican with every post. Nowhere have I seen you mention anything that you actually like about the demo party. Whereas you are constantly vouching for the GOP, Bush, and his cabinet. What am I supposed to think?The Democrats have a serious perception problem when it comes to people outside of the urban areas that they need to address beyond just criticizing the Republicans.
Okay please be patient with me, as I'm truly trying to understand.
Yep, and hallelujah. If Ahnold had been elected president I'd be much more accepting of it than how I feel today.geekster wrote:I live in California. Our Republicans here tend to be pro choice and pro gay rights.
What about federal legislation? There are two to FOUR Supreme Court justices who will be leaving the bench in the next four years. GW gets to nominate their successors, who are approved by the Republican congress (of which our California representatives are a small percentage). The neo-cons have already tried once to propose a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage; what's to prevent them from doing it again, and how are you so sure that this congress won't pass it? Once it goes to the courts, surely GWs justices will be no help? And the same goes for abortion. To me it looks like the country just paved the way for the neo-con agenda to be laid out in federal law.They won't outlaw abortion here or pass a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage.
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tonytohono
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geekster wrote:
Prochoice will be first to go, and now that bush knows that at least 51% and a whole gang of states want to end any chance of gay marriage they'll probably opt for an amendment.
My greatest fear of Bush are the justices he may eventually appoint. Granted, they have to be affirmed, but when he lines up the ones he is likely too, we are looking at years with a most likely ultra conservative bench. Let's not forget who got him in office the first time around.
But the current administration may. And we already know that overrides state law. We are looking at upwards of 3 new justices in the next 4 years. Yes, Rehnquist is already conservative so his replacement won't likely change the balance of conservative/liberal, but what of the others?I live in California. Our Republicans here tend to be pro choice and pro gay rights. They won't outlaw abortion here or pass a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriage.
Prochoice will be first to go, and now that bush knows that at least 51% and a whole gang of states want to end any chance of gay marriage they'll probably opt for an amendment.
My greatest fear of Bush are the justices he may eventually appoint. Granted, they have to be affirmed, but when he lines up the ones he is likely too, we are looking at years with a most likely ultra conservative bench. Let's not forget who got him in office the first time around.
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Rian Jackson
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Interesting how much the idea of secession has been discussed of late.
I keep wondering how feasible it is, but I’d sure as hell enjoy trying it. It seems to me that this country has gotten too big – both for its britches and in actual size. We could easily be a lot of smaller nations. Granted, political views are mixed in every region, but looking at that red-and-blue map, it makes me wonder if maybe we shouldn’t split up.
It seems like we’re pretty unmanageable right now, divided on domestic and foreign policy. We think differently about morals, about the environment, about foreign relations, and about corporations. Look at every other enormous country (both in terms of space and population) that’s been highly centralised: the USSR didn’t fare too well; China’s had its share of problems, too. Of course, there are other difficulties involved in those situations, but it bears at least a look.
We were talking last night, my father and I, about the west coast becoming it’s own country. We realised that, with the slight problem of Eastern Washington not wanting to go with us, we’d have everything we need. Food? Yup. Power? You bet – solar, wind, nuclear, hydro. Shipping access? Plenty. And, if we *needed* them, military centers. Some of the more conservative places in the US might be happy to see us lefty nutjobs leave. And, though we have our own cadres of conservatives here (hell, Slade Gorton, aka Skeletor, was in office for a long time), there sure is a big blue streak running down the west coast on that election map.
It seems to me that the best reason the US has to stay so large is military strength overseas. It’s not a good enough reason for a lot of us.
I find it telling that ‘Baghdad Jim’, our beloved Congressman McDermott, got 80% of the votes in his race (at least last time I looked at the numbers). He’s one of the most liberal guys in our congress and he keeps being elected again and again, I’m guessing (no cites except glancing through the papers) by some of the highest margins anywhere.
You could argue that our country’s size brings it diversity, which is true to an extent. But if I don’t make it to Florida, am I affected by the diversity that the Cuban population in Florida brings? Would I be any less so if I had to go to another country and not just another state to visit Florida?
Economically, countries trade with others all the time. And perhaps having several countries would actually give options other than the sort of corporate control we’re seeing these days. I’m really not an economist, so these are just thoughts. But I wonder how it would be if the West Coast country rejected corporate subsidies. Maybe the corporations would leave, prompting a different economic culture altogether. Maybe different regulations in different areas of what we now know as the US would lead to more competition, or demands for different standards… Maybe we’d fall into economic collapse. I don’t really have enough background on some of this stuff to say.
I guess the point is that there’s no really compelling reason why we should remain a part of this nation (if, that is, a majority would want to leave). Granted, the US’s army bearing down on us might be a good reason, but we do have the trident subs. Everyone keeps saying that if you don’t like the US, you should just leave. I wonder what they’d think if a whole region up and left….
Apologies for the lack of cites, folks, I’m still synthesizing and processing this.
I keep wondering how feasible it is, but I’d sure as hell enjoy trying it. It seems to me that this country has gotten too big – both for its britches and in actual size. We could easily be a lot of smaller nations. Granted, political views are mixed in every region, but looking at that red-and-blue map, it makes me wonder if maybe we shouldn’t split up.
It seems like we’re pretty unmanageable right now, divided on domestic and foreign policy. We think differently about morals, about the environment, about foreign relations, and about corporations. Look at every other enormous country (both in terms of space and population) that’s been highly centralised: the USSR didn’t fare too well; China’s had its share of problems, too. Of course, there are other difficulties involved in those situations, but it bears at least a look.
We were talking last night, my father and I, about the west coast becoming it’s own country. We realised that, with the slight problem of Eastern Washington not wanting to go with us, we’d have everything we need. Food? Yup. Power? You bet – solar, wind, nuclear, hydro. Shipping access? Plenty. And, if we *needed* them, military centers. Some of the more conservative places in the US might be happy to see us lefty nutjobs leave. And, though we have our own cadres of conservatives here (hell, Slade Gorton, aka Skeletor, was in office for a long time), there sure is a big blue streak running down the west coast on that election map.
It seems to me that the best reason the US has to stay so large is military strength overseas. It’s not a good enough reason for a lot of us.
I find it telling that ‘Baghdad Jim’, our beloved Congressman McDermott, got 80% of the votes in his race (at least last time I looked at the numbers). He’s one of the most liberal guys in our congress and he keeps being elected again and again, I’m guessing (no cites except glancing through the papers) by some of the highest margins anywhere.
You could argue that our country’s size brings it diversity, which is true to an extent. But if I don’t make it to Florida, am I affected by the diversity that the Cuban population in Florida brings? Would I be any less so if I had to go to another country and not just another state to visit Florida?
Economically, countries trade with others all the time. And perhaps having several countries would actually give options other than the sort of corporate control we’re seeing these days. I’m really not an economist, so these are just thoughts. But I wonder how it would be if the West Coast country rejected corporate subsidies. Maybe the corporations would leave, prompting a different economic culture altogether. Maybe different regulations in different areas of what we now know as the US would lead to more competition, or demands for different standards… Maybe we’d fall into economic collapse. I don’t really have enough background on some of this stuff to say.
I guess the point is that there’s no really compelling reason why we should remain a part of this nation (if, that is, a majority would want to leave). Granted, the US’s army bearing down on us might be a good reason, but we do have the trident subs. Everyone keeps saying that if you don’t like the US, you should just leave. I wonder what they’d think if a whole region up and left….
Apologies for the lack of cites, folks, I’m still synthesizing and processing this.
surlier than thou
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samtzu
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Tony wrote:
Again, Fuck Despair!! I refuse to give into it, or move out of the country, or just become a grumbling old fart sitting on a porch somewhere, pissed off at everybody. With absolute joy and conviction I am going to do something, anything, about it... dunno' what, yet... but I will find a goal and reach it... who's with me?
I agree... but I fucking refuse to despair. This country has had worse presidents (Millard Filmore and Warren G. Harding come to mind) and worse Supreme Courts (The Dred Scott case is a real standout) and we have survived. I will take my cue from Joel and actually get out there and work for change.My greatest fear of Bush are the justices he may eventually appoint. Granted, they have to be affirmed, but when he lines up the ones he is likely too, we are looking at years with a most likely ultra conservative bench. Let's not forget who got him in office the first time around
Again, Fuck Despair!! I refuse to give into it, or move out of the country, or just become a grumbling old fart sitting on a porch somewhere, pissed off at everybody. With absolute joy and conviction I am going to do something, anything, about it... dunno' what, yet... but I will find a goal and reach it... who's with me?
The revolutionary does not grow up because he cannot grow, while the creative individual cannot grow up because he keeps growing ~~ Eric Hoffer