How Turn Key Camps Get Placed

[DrYes]

IMHO, green Tortoise served a purpose before the Burner Bus existed. Now I don't think they should be allowed to operate as they have been either, really ever since the tickets sold out, they shouldn't be allocated a block at all. They're part of the slippery slope that ends with things like Caravansicle.

I totally understand the intellectual impetus for why people would want GT's "contract" with BM terminated via a P&P "clean slate" program. That said, do we really want to see a "good neighbor" / "good citizens" of BRC get f*cked because of the actions of actual COMMODIFICATION CAMPS? I for one don't.

I agree. I think GT has been going to Burning Man since before I started going. They camp in tents for Christ sakes. How Plug and Play is that? Plus I have never heard anything but good about them.

What does staying in tents or how long they've been selling tours to the playa have to do with whether something is plug n' play or not? It's ok because they're not targeting rich people? It's ok because running for-profit tours to the playa is fine as long as they've been doing it a long time?

I don't understand what principles you could object to plug n' play camps in general and then not object to one that is run for profit and is openly advertising tours to Burning Man, and whose camp provides nothing back to the community, but still gets placed like a theme camp and gets allocated blocks of tickets.

Aren't those exactly the most widespread objections people have about plug n' play camps?

[Simon of the Playa]

What Part Of "DECOMMODIFICATION" Don't You Fucking Understand?

[theCryptofishist]

nice straw man argument dr. yes.

united, the coffee, the ice...


bitch please, those are grandfathered in...you know damn well what i am talking about so dont try to muddy the waters with bullshit.

USS and the ice are health department mandates. No getting rid of those. Coffee supposedly keeps center camp cafe performance spaces open. Whatever, I don't know I agree, but I don't violently disagree.

[DrYes]

What Part Of "DECOMMODIFICATION" Don't You Fucking Understand?

I'd pose the same question back at you since when it's pointed out that one can hand over money, on the playa, to get a hot tasty beverage commodity your response is, "You're muddying the waters."

I'm not, though. I'm pointing out that there's nuance to the issue and that neither you nor anyone else is fully against commodification on the playa.

(I also don't see that this has much to do with the real arguments against plug n' play camps!)

[DrYes]

nice straw man argument dr. yes.

united, the coffee, the ice...


bitch please, those are grandfathered in...you know damn well what i am talking about so dont try to muddy the waters with bullshit.

USS and the ice are health department mandates. No getting rid of those. Coffee supposedly keeps center camp cafe performance spaces open. Whatever, I don't know I agree, but I don't violently disagree.

Oh, hey man, I'm not advocating getting rid of any of it just to be clear! Got no issue with them selling coffee or ice, and I love that the porta-potties get emptied and cleaned. I was just pointing out that all commodification isn't bad.

(I think the argument that coffee keeps center camp performance space open is specious though. The Man gets built without hot dog vendors at its base, for instance, as does everything else at Burning Man. They sell coffee because it's a money maker and people love coffee enough that they'll let it slide. My assumption is they added in their other beverage options, like lemonade, because they're also cheap to produce, have high margins, and require no real kitchens or anything.)

[Simon of the Playa]

I also don't see that this has much to do with the real arguments against plug n' play camps!)

yeah, we know.



it's just not sinking in, and i can smell the little gears in your mind grinding together.....it's ok...

[theCryptofishist]

(I think the argument that coffee keeps center camp performance space open is specious though. The Man gets built without hot dog vendors at its base, for instance, as does everything else at Burning Man. They sell coffee because it's a money maker and people love coffee enough that they'll let it slide. My assumption is they added in their other beverage options, like lemonade, because they're also cheap to produce, have high margins, and require no real kitchens or anything.)

not endorsing Larry's argument, simply passing on what it is.

[Corvus]

(I think the argument that coffee keeps center camp performance space open is specious though. The Man gets built without hot dog vendors at its base, for instance, as does everything else at Burning Man. They sell coffee because it's a money maker and people love coffee enough that they'll let it slide. My assumption is they added in their other beverage options, like lemonade, because they're also cheap to produce, have high margins, and require no real kitchens or anything.)

Legend has it that Center Cafe exists because one of the LLC six just couldn't do without their morning coffee. I'm a little dubious because it would seem easier to just brew your own.

[Simon of the Playa]

center camp provides a extremely useful service to the city.


crucial i would say.


it keeps all of the hippies and their shit-locks and their semi-naked full contact yoga in one place.


duh.

[forty_eight]

[Isotopia]

Ratty/Elderberry - my understanding is that turnkey camps are not given any ticket allotments, and do not participate in the directed group sale.

But the (as yet) unanswered question remains: How Many of the Thank You Tickets (referenced above) were made available to those able to pay and how many of those purchased were in turned flipped exclusively for the purpose of making an obscene profit by using them as an investment to assemble packaged tours/vacations/exclusive camps (ie Turnkey villages) costing thousands of dollars to those able to pay it. Further, how many of those tickets represent a net loss of tickets available for general purchase?

Seems to me that the silence is deafening insofar as the borg's unwillingness to answer such basic questions. So far, all we get is disingenuous skirting of the issue by various mouthpieces within the or badly worded missives from 'guest' writers attempting to make light of the very real and legit questions that are being brought to the table.

[Ratty]

When I click on 'View your posts' I get a lot of threads that have taken an ugly turn or become so repetitive as to be tiresome. Is there any way to remove those pesky threads from the list? I would love to just see the Welcome, love, what did I learn, what are you making for next year, let's all get virtually drunk and the Potty Project. You know, the basics.

I wonder how many posts there are pertaining to P&P wrong doing. It does tend to repeat itself. Somebody please PM me when there is news back from the BOD. By news I mean anything other than, "I'm workin on it".

[Lonesomebri]

Pro-tip: Don't click on threads you are not interested in. Do not comment on topics you are not interested in. This way the topics can stay on some sort of track, give or take, but at least they aren't bogged down with people annoyed that the thread is exactly about what the thread was labeled. If you don't comment on threads you are not interested in, they do not show up on your history. Like, note that this thread is titled "How Turn Key Camps Get Placed", if you are not interested in this discussion, ummm, you might just want to not participate in it by not clicking on the thread and not commenting.

[FIGJAM]

Well, the newest JRS explained EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!

[danibel]

When I get tired of the blah blah blah I just use the main board index and read "tips and tricks" or something. I usually view "new posts." But there isn't much action up here lately so there ya go. I think until this commodification camp things is resolved there is bound to be a lot of not-so-postive posts.

[Ratty]

Lonesome, I am interested some aspects of the Big Camp Saga. I think everyone is a little interested in at least what the Borg will finally have to say for themselves. Thanks for the 'Pro Tip'. Really. That's very helpful. I'll add it to my list of wise eplaya hacks. It doesn't apply to my question though. I guess I'm just stuck with every post I've ever made showing up in 'View Your Posts'. No big deal. It was only an inquiry.

BTW You are starting to repeat yourself.

Clicks on threads that they are not interested in,
complains about threads being about what they are not interested in.
Believes that not clicking on that thread does not fall under radical self-reliance,
but is the fault of those who make it clear what the thread is about.

If you think my question about how to remove this thread from my personal history is 'bogging down' the fast flow of pertinent information I'm so sorry. Now you can get back to the important rehash. I'll try not to interrupt you again.

[Jovankat]

I don't use the 'View Your Posts' thing, I just go to the main board and click on everything that's new so I really don't know if this will help but Ratty if you go into the User Control Panel, select "Manage Subscriptions", select the threads you're no longer interested in and they click "unwatch marked" does that help?

[Lonesomebri]

Had a turkey sandwich today, it's raining outside.

I'm trying to make the threads addressing playa issues more acceptable.

[lucky420]

snicker ^^

[jneilvindy]

Had a turnkey sandwich today, it's raining outside.

I'm trying to make the threads addressing playa issues more acceptable.

There. I cleaned that up for you a bit.

[GreyCoyote]

Had a turnkey sandwich today, it's raining outside.

I'm trying to make the threads addressing playa issues more acceptable.

There. I left that for someone else to clean up for you after a bit.

Fixed that for ya.

[TT120]

Had a turnkey sandwich today, it's raining outside.

I'm trying to make the threads addressing playa issues more acceptable.

There. I left that for someone else to clean up for you after a bit.

I paid someone to Fix that for ya.

I fixed that for ya.

[Ratty]

I'm really wondering why the frick do I get a slap from a nobody for drifting off topic in this thread. This should be retitled "Thread Drift". I'm enjoying the banter and wit.

(Now you can fix it for me.)

Jovankat, Thanks for the suggestion. I did as you said and deleted some old threads that were marked in my User Control Panel. This thread wasn't marked. There isn't any way to remove posts so I'll just carry on. Business as usual. God knows I'm able to ignore anything that I choose to. Thanks

[mdmf007]

hmmm

[Lonesomebri]

I am sorry I am a jerk, but someone had to be. Burners upset with the for-profit sell-out of Burning Man voiced their opposition, and tried to post solutions here on eplaya. The threads were labeled to show what they were about. Several people decided that they did not like that “controversy” so they repeatedly posted on those threads complaining about the complainers, discussing sandwiches, derailing the topic all that they could. That was their right. Good for them.

But then they complain about seeing the topics THEY CLICKED ON. Just don’t click on it, make us all happy. But, no, they click on the thread, complain on the thread that the thread is exactly about what the thread is labeled, and finally they are perturbed because what they themselves choose to click and comment on, what they themselves claim they were not interested in (at least the voices of nobodies), shows up in a list of what they commented on.

I don’t mean to be a jerk, but why click and comment on things you don’t want to see? I never really got an answer for this. Thread drift is one thing, not an issue, but don’t comment on the for-profit sell-out if you don’t want your comments to come back and haunt you. This is nobody else’s fault. Heck I tried to get people making inane comments on those threads to stop on their own, but hey....

Ps. I really wish I wasn't a jerk to you.

[Isotopia]

Well, sometimes people need to be called on their hypocritical jerkitude.

You've nothing to apologize for -especially since you really hit the nail on the head.

[Sandstorm]

Well, sometimes people need to be called on their hypocritical jerkitude.

You've nothing to apologize for -especially since you really hit the nail on the head.

Is it too late too for us to vote in "Hypocritical Jerkitude" as the theme for next year's burn?

[Isotopia]

Probably not. Still, I remain partial to the theme (not mine) of Hilbilly Visionquest.

[Bless]

[Simon of the Playa]

this is your burn, and it's ending one minute at a time.