cooling your tent or van

Swamp Coolers, Cooler Management, Dry Ice, Misting Systems, and just plain how to beat the heat.
Post Reply
User avatar
MacGlenver
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:11 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: I call this one 'Old Gregg'

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by MacGlenver » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:20 am

Someone PMd me about how my swamp cooler worked with my Kodiak tent (10x14). Here's my response in case it's helpful to others:

I used it last year for the first time. I would say that my swamp cooler was not optimized to work its best. For one, the only evap pads I could find at Ace hardware that resembled the ones Figjam recommends seemed to be insufficient. This year I got the natural hay-like substrate that people say is a bit moopy or can clog your pump. I cut it at home, so am not expecting any moop issues -- will have to see about the clogs, but I'm optimistic. As for ducting, I use flexible metal ducting hose, which i slip over the end of the 90 degree elbow that comes off the bucket. A friend of mine, however, overhauled his swamp cooler this year and used flexible plastic ducting (like this http://www.mge.com/images/embed_dryervent_plastic.jpg, which attaches with something like this, which it snaps on to: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/4 ... SX300_.jpg). He also used bolts to attach the fan and the various components to the bucket lid, which i found to be much better than using the screws that come with the fan, since those can eventually crack the lid. As for getting the max seal between my tent zipper and the ducting, it never seemed to me like getting a seal around the pipe with the zipper was an issue -- it always seemed fairly tight. I suppose if you wanted to seal it any better, you could just wrap some cloth or a towel around it on the inside where it enters. This all being said, my tent had no shade last year (my friend's plan didnt pan out), and with a sub-optimal swamp cooler, I didnt feel like it was a huge benefit (and with my 10x14x7 kodiak, it may be a bit too much volume to service with just a single bucket cooler). With my improved evap pads and shade this year, I'm hoping for better. Another trick my friends use (they have the same sized tent) is they sewed several sheets together to form a bubble around them and their air mattress, and they attach the ducting to that, which inflates with cooled air. That way they don't have to cool their whole tent -- just the air around them while they sleep. They say it gets so cold they need extra blankets :)
"just two indecisive cowboys, trying to play a word game." - piehole
"Just apply intelligence and discretion and you should be able to get away with just about anything." - Ugly Dougly

LowePro
Posts: 655
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:58 pm

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by LowePro » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:25 am

"sewed several sheets together to form a bubble around them and their air mattress, and they attach the ducting to that, which inflates with cooled air."

Fully endorse this method when trying to "stretch" the bucket cooler to use in a larger-than-recommended space. I just hung an extra sheet as a curtain around by bed and kept the cold air where it was most needed.

There are a number of tests you can do to optimize your swampie, see further back in the thread. Although it's crunch time now, I'm leaving in less than 12 hours AKKKKKKKKKK!K!K!KK!K!

User avatar
MacGlenver
Posts: 873
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:11 pm
Burning Since: 2011
Camp Name: I call this one 'Old Gregg'

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by MacGlenver » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:28 am

asr9754 wrote:"sewed several sheets together to form a bubble around them and their air mattress, and they attach the ducting to that, which inflates with cooled air."

Fully endorse this method when trying to "stretch" the bucket cooler to use in a larger-than-recommended space. I just hung an extra sheet as a curtain around by bed and kept the cold air where it was most needed.

There are a number of tests you can do to optimize your swampie, see further back in the thread. Although it's crunch time now, I'm leaving in less than 12 hours AKKKKKKKKKK!K!K!KK!K!
I've got a bunch of sheets in storage that we'll be loading in Sacramento... maybe I should bring my sewing machine out there :). 12 hours!! Jealous! I'm leaving in.... like... 36 hours. Bah!
"just two indecisive cowboys, trying to play a word game." - piehole
"Just apply intelligence and discretion and you should be able to get away with just about anything." - Ugly Dougly

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:13 am

If you use the 190 CFM fan, the optimal limit you can cool is 570 cu. ft.

I round that up to 600, but you were definitely pushing it with that size tent.

Relative humidity is a huge factor. 8)
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:49 am

My cooling setup...refurbished from last year. Added the foil tape to bounce off a little of the sun.

My fan is one I had lying around, it's a Delta AFB1212SH. Says it gets 113CFM. Still made a big difference in the hexayurt, which is a lot of space to cool off.

Also...the 190CFM fan draws up to 3.0 amps...my fan draws only 0.8 amps. The extra runtime is nice since I like to leave it on a long time.

Image

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:16 am

I don't know where people are getting that 3 amp figure.

The first 190CFM I bought said 1.25 AMPS and the site now says 1.60AMPS. :?

With the pump, mine uses about 2AMPS.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:37 am

I zoomed in on the label of the fan on Newegg and the label says 3 amps. Maybe that's if you jam your finger on it...

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:36 pm

"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:04 pm

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6835213010

Apparently not all 120mm 190CFM fans are created equal...

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:32 pm

Yup, the difference between the FOO and the CFOO. :shock:

On this site the specs on the FOO say 3 amps!

http://www.frozencpu.com/cat/l3/g36/c43 ... Page1.html
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

krapow
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 pm
Burning Since: 2014

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by krapow » Thu Aug 21, 2014 7:09 pm

Cutting it close.. but trying to make figjam special before heading out. I'm in Los Angeles and missed the cutoff time for buying the pump (without paying an arm and a leg for shipping) through Amazon. Does anyone know where I can source a mini 12v pump locally in LA? I called four hydroponic shops and no luck.

Also, any local shops near downtown la where I can buy one of the high output fans, linked above? Trying to save where I can since my budget has sort of gotten out of control at this point. Thanks!

maladroit
Posts: 2381
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:37 pm
Burning Since: 2012

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by maladroit » Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:44 pm

You could get a pump from one of those crappy decorative fountains. They might even have a solar garden fountain at Harbor Freight.

usurpedus
Posts: 101
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:26 am

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by usurpedus » Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:18 pm

what gph rate do we need on the pump?

krapow
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 pm
Burning Since: 2014

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by krapow » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:26 pm

maladroit wrote:You could get a pump from one of those crappy decorative fountains. They might even have a solar garden fountain at Harbor Freight.
That's not a bad idea, thanks!

semmerai
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:34 pm
Burning Since: 2014

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by semmerai » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:37 pm

I purchased the fan posted on the original guide and it has a PWM 4 pin connector. I am having difficulty getting this fan to run just off of 12V power and ground. Is it possible to run without PWM control? I am attempting to splice it into the solar pump recommended on the original guide.

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:42 am

FIGJAM wrote:Not sure if you are making observations or asking a question.

In the beginning when the HF solar pump was mentioned I said it LOOKED like the perfect pump.

After getting one and finding out it was only good under perfect conditions, I've only recommended a 12 volt submersible fountain pump.

Power consumption has always been a prime objective in the design so that a single 100AH battery or bigger would allow for a 5 or 6 hour nap every day for 7 or 8 days without having to recharge.

I've achieved all of that!

Any redesigns and add-on's that burners want to do is fine, but I didn't plan those, and they need to engineer to accommodate them. 8)
The fan can't be spliced into the HF solar pump since it's not 12 volt.
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

aussieinusaburner
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: high maintenance

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by aussieinusaburner » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:20 am

HI all, URGENT help needed, my fountain pump got lost in shipping and I am struggling to find one locally (SF Bay Area). I need a 12v pump or a Solar Pump.

I leave tonight as I have early entry to build an art car.

I will go anywhere in the Bay Area, anyone got any ideas? No one I can find seems to have a 12v.

User avatar
SourPatch
Posts: 53
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:36 am
Burning Since: 2009
Location: Orange County, CA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by SourPatch » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:35 am

Harbor Freight has the solar ones that did not work for me, but hey, better than nothing!
http://www.harborfreight.com/lawn-garde ... 66093.html
They have other ones too if you have an AC source. http://www.harborfreight.com/lawn-garde ... 68396.html
8 watts though.

On a separate note, I was reading about adding essential oils to your evap cooler in order to make your living space smell good. I will try a combination of tea tree oil, lemongrass, and eucalyptus. Tea tree oil is supposed to inhibit mold/mildew too.
Overkill or go home.

aussieinusaburner
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: high maintenance

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by aussieinusaburner » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:23 am

Harbor Freight still have it on the website but no longer available....

I need 12v...

Any other ideas would be great.


*** Ignore this, San Jose found some! Wahoo!

krapow
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 pm
Burning Since: 2014

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by krapow » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:35 am

aussieinusaburner wrote:HI all, URGENT help needed, my fountain pump got lost in shipping and I am struggling to find one locally (SF Bay Area). I need a 12v pump or a Solar Pump.

I leave tonight as I have early entry to build an art car.

I will go anywhere in the Bay Area, anyone got any ideas? No one I can find seems to have a 12v.
I just ordered one of these from Sacramento. A bit of a drive but..

http://www.lightobject.com/38Lmin-Mini- ... -P396.aspx

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:19 pm

Find a 12 volt bilge pump.

HF may have one or check boat supply places.

They tend to pump more water and use more power, but you need something NOW!!! :shock:
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

aussieinusaburner
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2014 9:29 pm
Burning Since: 2012
Camp Name: high maintenance

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by aussieinusaburner » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:26 pm

Thanks all, got one of the Solar ones in San Jose, great tip from @iron_Horse that the solar does not pump out enough, he connected it to a 12v battery so will try that.

Thanks for all the help. Figjam you are that good!

arriving tonight wahoo

User avatar
FIGJAM
Posts: 10541
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:39 am
Location: apache junction az.

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by FIGJAM » Fri Aug 22, 2014 6:01 pm

Be careful.

The HF solar pump is 7 volts!!!
"Don't buy ur Burn...........Build ur Burn!"

"If I can't find an answer, I'll create one!!!"

Fuck Im Good Just Ask Me

User avatar
DesertDragon0554
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:59 pm
Burning Since: 2015
Location: Fernley/Silver Springs, NV

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by DesertDragon0554 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 4:14 am

Hey everyone. I have a question about power supply for a portable swamp cooler. I'm trying to be self-reliant, but electricity is one area I just need very simple explanations. I was planning to build a portable swamp cooler but realized the bucket was was too small for our needs. Then I saw the plans for building the box, but that seems silly considering I live in the desert...as a matter of fact I HAVE a portable swamp cooler sitting 5 feet behind me...running. I had initially ruled it out thinking it too large and power hungry, but after browsing this thread for the last hour, I'm thinking I should at least ask about it. It's this same model as this one minus the stand that I removed a few years ago after it became wobbly. http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/114 ... 11403A8340

The sticker says 120V, 60Hz, 1.3A

Now, when talking power you might as well be speaking Japanese or Martian because I don't get it. I'm not sure if those power specs I gave are what is needed to answer if I can run this off a battery, or if I will need a solar panel to charge that battery? Something else?

Edited to add: I have a power inverter already and the battery won't be an issue. Heck I can get lots of batteries, hubby is a mechanic.

User avatar
delle
Posts: 1984
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:13 am

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by delle » Sat Aug 30, 2014 5:40 am

Can't really help you with this but people will chime in eventually once they return.

One thing I'm pretty sure will be said tho is that unless you know how and are prepared to knock that cooler down to its tinyest bits and spend several days cleaning the playa dust off each element, you'd best be resigned to never having it in the house again.

Imagine the inside of a shopvac after a plastering job. The buckets are def easier to clean out!
Worry is a misuse of imagination

She had blue skin, And so did he.
He kept it hid And so did she.
They searched for blue Their whole life through,
Then passed right by- And never knew.”

Shel Silverstein

User avatar
Canoe
Posts: 5046
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:01 am

Without getting too far into it, there are a number of factors what will affect using that swamp cooler on the playa:
- An inverter run by battery wastes energy converting it into AC. Cheaper inverters are worse.
- How would you keep the playa dust out of it? Without filtration, will it clog up. If you install filters, it's not designed to handle that drag. How will you get the playa dust out of it?
- As it stands, that unit would be good for blowing cooled onto you on the playa. To cool your shelter, you need to be able to have it intake hot dry playa air, and output the moist cooled air into your shelter. This requires ducting and sealing it to your shelter in some manner.
- If hooked up to your shelter, how noisy is it? Can you sleep with it running?
- How long can it run before it need water added, or dust removed, or a battery recharged.

Figjam's designs run directly of of DC, so there is no wastage. None on any fancy electronics to waste power either.
The DC voltage used is not lethal. When the rain hit this past Monday, a number of people with VAC setups were running around shutting down before someone got electrocuted. Same benefit if you get into adding switches of various sorts to a Figjam design.
The components recommended work well with each other and use little power. The Endless Breeze fan used in the box designs is amazing. Moves tons of air, quiet and low power consumption.
They use a pad material with a proven record of surviving the playa dust.
The flow flow down the pad washes the playa dust off of it. You may have to scoop out some wet dust/mud out of the bottom if it's been really dusty on the playa.
They have good capacity for water. We know how long they'll run for (water and electricity).
We have a pretty good idea how well they cool, so you'll know if it's enough for your shelter before you go.

There are a lot of little details that can limit or prevent a swamp cooler from working well on the playa.
People do very well with Figjam's designs,which are Playa-Tested©)'( (proven track record on-playa), when they are made as recommended without modification.
It's when people vary from those designs that they can screw themselves. You can read through the long thread, and you can post your suggested components or modifications here and people will post what issues you may or may not have with them. Or build a tried & true design and be done with it.

If you use the AC one you have, you won't know what trouble you'll have with it until you're on the playa. You could be without any or adequate cooling for your shelter.

Someone may say, so big deal, no cooling for the week.
Well, even assuming there's no medical need to be able to have cooled, moist or dust-free air inside your shelter, it can make a big difference in how much you're able to do during Burn week. The big need is to be able to get enough sleep. Once the sun is up in the morning, things quickly get hot. Your shelter is typically like an oven, baking on the playa. A swamp-cooler means you get to sleep longer, quality sleep, and you can get a comfortable rest and respite from the heat, anytime you turn it on, so you can get out, explore and participate to your max.

Image
4.669
.
That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

User avatar
Captain Goddammit
Posts: 8589
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2003 9:34 am
Burning Since: 2000
Camp Name: First Camp
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Captain Goddammit » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:10 am

Short answer about the power, that's too much to be practical on batteries.

Best answer about power, read this, I came up with a way to translate Martianese into English:
viewtopic.php?f=278&t=65368&hilit=Burne ... lectricity
GreyCoyote: "At this rate it wont be long before he is Admiral Fukkit."

User avatar
Canoe
Posts: 5046
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:01 pm

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by Canoe » Sat Aug 30, 2014 7:31 am

p.s.
most people, most years, can run their DC swamp cooler for their periodic needs through the BM week on a single battery charge.
IF they're using the recommended components and a suitable battery.
4.669
.
That's one word I regret googling during breakfast.
.
Video games are giving kids unrealistic expectations on how many swords they can carry.
.
, but don't harm the red dragon that frequents the area from time to time. He and I have an agreement.

User avatar
DesertDragon0554
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:59 pm
Burning Since: 2015
Location: Fernley/Silver Springs, NV

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by DesertDragon0554 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 2:46 pm

Well, to answer most of that...this cooler is a very simple design, I tear it down for cleaning every year.. Washing it down and swapping the pad out would easily clean it out to be used in my house again...and if not it's ok because I don't need it in my house anymore. We bought it when we lived in Tahoe and I was pregnant and hot, but here we have the big swamp cooler on the roof. I'm only using it now as a fan at night. It's ten years old and it's been used to chill a camper before, but we had unlimited electricity. The ducting was something I planned to build onto it, normally we just sit out in front of an open window but I realize that won't work on the playa. It's not loud at all and has a pump designed to run dry without damage. The replacement pumps are cheap as well, do I would have a spare on hand. I could take photos of it opened up if that helps. Oh and the inverter have isn't a cheap one at all.

User avatar
DesertDragon0554
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:59 pm
Burning Since: 2015
Location: Fernley/Silver Springs, NV

Re: cooling your tent or van

Post by DesertDragon0554 » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:07 pm

Holy cow, let me try this again without autocorrect making me crazy. OK, I would not be heartbroken if this cooler became a 'playa use only' cooler, but I am relatively certain that I can effectively clean it because the design is so simple. We actually have a "mini playa" about ten minutes from my house and planned to do a dry run there to test everything. We get 70mph winds and such right here at home, so the idea was to test out on a gusty day. We also planned a second dry run out on the playa itself... it's only a 90 minute drive so it's not unreasonable. We have more than one idea/system we want to test run anyway and the kids want to check it out. If it won't work, that's fine. I can build the endless wind machine, but it just seems silly to not at least look into using what I already have on hand.
Oh and swamp cooler pads are no problem. I have a roll of the blue kind on hand because we have to change our big cooler pads out twice a season, and the aspen type is readily available though we tend to prefer the blue.

Thank you Captain Goddammit for the translation :) Very helpful.
Last edited by DesertDragon0554 on Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Return to “Keeping Cool”