Ah, now you're making fun of my name? Wow, there's some advanced conversation techniques that most certainly demonstrate the validity of your points, maturity of your position, and the levels of deep thought you've put into the issue. You score, man, for being such a profound thinker, there. Way to go.
As a matter of fact, when an underage driver drinks and causes an accident their parents *are* legally and ethically responsible for the minor in questions behavior. That's why mom and dad's estate, insurance policy, and even overall parenting all come into question when such an accident occurs. Here in the Seattle area we've got a mom in jail right now after an accident followed a party she hosted when she let some kinds who had been drinking get in the car. So, yep, being part of the creation and management of the car buys you responsibility for how it's used. Especially when you start things out being less than certain that your camp mates will be sober when they drive it. That latter bit makes you responsible for doing something to address and create that certainty, and a max speed restrictor on the rig ain't it.
Could any given car on the playa be driven by someone drinking? Sure. Did the creator(s) of all those cars post to the e-playa saying they couldn't trust their camp mates not to do so? No. That makes you special, sunshine, like it or not. Would I ask every person who is associated with the creation of your art car to work to make sure no one drives it after drinking? Damn right, and you're not special there, IMHO. As far as I'm concerned anyone bringing an art car who can not be sure it won't be operated by a drunk driver (barring theft, broken systems, and so on) should not bring that art car to the playa. You're nothing special in that regard, either.
As for options to make sure that folk don't drive it drunk you have a world of possible solutions. Bring 1 key to the playa and wear it around your neck when you're not driving. Don't give anyone the key who has drank recently or who won't promise you not to drink while they are driving. And don't give it to anyone who's word you can't trust as well as your own. That involves no baby-sitting at all, but would be a lot more prone to promote sober driving than making the art car available to whoever wanted to drive it, whenever they wanted to. As someone else suggested you could have a written document everyone signs promising not to drive it after drinking. And, again, anyone you can't trust doesn't get to sign. And so on.
Would that be 100%? Certainty is an illusion as far as I'm concerned so no, nothing is. Would it be better than doing nothing in the face of campmates you're wondering about? Damn right. Saying both that you can't trust your campmates to not drive after drinking, and that you're going to rely on trust illustrates that you yourself know your current actions are insufficient. You can call me names, distort the point, get aggressive and mean all you like, and so on. None of that will change the situation, what you've said, or the moral and legal responsibility you will have should a drunk campmate drive your art car into someone or something. Believe me I hope that doesn't happen, but no electronic mud you sling you sling will change a thing on the ground.
Ron
BottomFeeder wrote:Let's take a look at what I said, and my attitude.
First, I expressed that I do not plan on driving intoxicated.
But, in that same post, I made a flippant remark about campmates driving "sloshed." And I mentioned a safety measure that so far no one else has. (Speed kills!)
In my next post I apologized for the flippant remark. It doesn't reflect the real truth. I didn't realize people would be so passionate about this. I also re-emphasized that I do not want people driving drunk. But, I stated that I do not have full control of this vehicle. It will not be under my watch the entire time. And hence I cannot guarantee anything.
moRon says: "Now why don't you work that hard to make sure an art car you worked on isn't driven by folk who have been drinking? " I assume that you would ask that of every person on our art car creation team. Of course you would. Why would you single me out of the group as the only one who has to be responsible? There are two things that we can do, in such a situation. a) Each of us can constantly baby-sit the art car for the entire week. To make sure that none of us will take the car out while drunk. b) Trust each other to make the intelligent choice. c) Other options, I don't know what they are, so please tell me. Call me a pragmatist, but I choose b) and I stand behind it. Communities rely on trust. Our camp community must rely on trust, or it will fall apart. And since I cannot control EVERY member of the community, I am forced to trust them. But I cannot give you a 100% guarantee. And anyone who does give you that guarantee is a liar.
"Sorry if lifting the skirt of denial you had on embarrassed you, but there it is." What on God's green earth have I denied?
Every vehicle on the road MAY be driven drunk. Every art car MAY be driven drunk. It all boils down to individuals making decisions.
You can distort what I said all day, but I still am not making a vehicle for people to drive drunk. I am making a vehicle. I am making it as safe as possible. What you are demanding is naive and unrealistic. Breathalyzers can be ignored by the drunk party.
"None of which will change the core point that if you can't trust your camp mates helping to provide an art car to them is an ethically indefensible position." Do you blame parents for handing keys to a teenager who may or may not drink and drive at some point? Guess what? Every teenager MAY drink and drive. Those that make good decisions don't. Which is what I encourage.
- and warned me that next time I would be ticketed for open containers. YMMV.
