New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 2012

Want to talk about tickets? You've come to the right place
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by waynerd » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:38 pm

piehole wrote:ALRIGHT EVERYBODY JUST CALM DOWN


turn up your speakers and listen to this:

[youtube][/youtube]

and then go to bed
Piehole, if I had a ticket to give, I would give it to you for this post. Nuff said. :)
Excuse me, this is way different than what was described in the brochure!

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by pink » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:39 pm

I didn't read this so much as 'Big Theme camps will get tickets' as 'the volunteers necessary to ensure the infrastructure is in place' will get tickets.

Gate. DPW. Rangers. Cafe. Medical. Arctica. Lamplighters. Playa Info. BMIR.

Many of these really, really, important areas are short of staff. As I understand it, just volunteering for a bazillion years does not necessarily get you a staff ticket. Being a shift boss at Cafe does not necessarily get you a ticket. But the people in these positions need to be there.

Sure anyone can volunteer to sling ice at Arctica or coffee at Cafe for an afternoon. I've done both, and recommend it highly. But someone has to manage these areas, or the Cafe could be shut down by the Nevada Dept of Health or the city run out of ice. Someone has to build the city and take it down again. Someone has to treat your wounds, medivac you to Reno.

And somehow with 'Moop Map' as one of the criteria, I don't think some of the big sound camps will be getting preferential treatment.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Brianna_Beauty413 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:40 pm

Dr. Pyro wrote:It's too bad they took down the Tickets thread from 2011. As late as August 28 there were tickets available at cost. People cancel out, get arrested, change jobs, die, and so on. Burners are a particularly unreliable group to follow through with last-minute plans. Do not change your plans to get to the desert. Things will work out. This will be my 14th year and I've seen it all. So cheer up and we'll see you in the dust.
+100

Way to be optimistic Doc :) I love that you're a 'glass half-full' kinda guy! Can't wait to see all of you on the playa! Don't give up, if you truly want to go - you will find a way. Good luck everyone!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by vargaso » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:41 pm

Any word on how the STEP queue will be determined? By date you registered in the lottery maybe? Shit, I hope not, I didn't register until the last day.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by tattoogoddess » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:43 pm

urvile wrote:For dog's sake people, STEP or scalpers is not going to be the ONLY way to get a ticket. Tickets have changed hands in plenty of ways prior to it, and they will continue to be. It's a bit early for all the doom and gloom I'm seeing.

Thank you!!!

If I don't get a low income. Can't come up with the $390 for the "camp tickets" ( how ever that works out) I will be looking every single day on craigs list to find a ticket! I have my train ticket booked and all is a go. I will be trying to pull in as many extra hours as I can get and cut down on food if it means me being able to get a ticket. Don't give up people!!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Jackass » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:44 pm

Drawingablank wrote:
Eric wrote:Once you've bought a ticket in STEP, it's yours. Period. I don't see anything in the blog about returning it to STEP if you decide you don't want it, but there is definitely no way for it to be scalped or sold.
Wow, that makes this whole thing seem like even more of a suck fest.

So couples who get one with step but can't secure a second one elsewhere may have to just abandon the ticket and their money. And the worst part is that the much needed ticket then goes to waste!

.
This totally sucks balls!! If I'm lucky enough to get one in step(doubtful) and I can't get a find a second ticket elsewhere(also doubtful). I either need to convince my gf that I'm going alone (very doubtful) or scrap all plans to attend without being able to get my money back or sell to someone to help complete their group?? It's definitely getting weird!!
Sooner or later, it will get real strange...

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Brianna_Beauty413 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:44 pm

vargaso wrote:Any word on how the STEP queue will be determined? By date you registered in the lottery maybe? Shit, I hope not, I didn't register until the last day.

My guess is that by saying "register" they mean who registers first for the STEP tickets, not the original lottery tickets. It's easier for them to just create a new list of people who register for STEP than for them to sift through who registered for the lottery first. Plus, not everybody who registered for the lottery is going to register for STEP. Especially since they're only giving 1 ticket per registration.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:45 pm

That is the question I asked ,I registerd in the 1st 5 minutes
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:46 pm

Well They need to make this clear
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by urvile » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:53 pm

tattoogoddess wrote:
urvile wrote:For dog's sake people, STEP or scalpers is not going to be the ONLY way to get a ticket. Tickets have changed hands in plenty of ways prior to it, and they will continue to be. It's a bit early for all the doom and gloom I'm seeing.

Thank you!!!

If I don't get a low income. Can't come up with the $390 for the "camp tickets" ( how ever that works out) I will be looking every single day on craigs list to find a ticket! I have my train ticket booked and all is a go. I will be trying to pull in as many extra hours as I can get and cut down on food if it means me being able to get a ticket. Don't give up people!!
Don't give up hope. I remember last year when tickets first sold out, it was a mad scramble, and everyone was freaking out. As we got closer and closer to the event, tickets seemed become more and more available as people's plans changed, and the folks who were hanging on to extra tickets figured out who they should go to. There's going to be plenty of people who can't take the time off, or realize it's really far away, costs a lot of money, etc.

And personally, if I had an extra tickets, I wouldn't go through STEP. I know plenty of friends I'd like to come to the burning mans, and I'd get it to them rather than a random. I suspect many others will do the same.
Last edited by urvile on Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by suicyco » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:54 pm

As a virgin who has been attempting to get a group together to go to burning man oh, the last 15 years or so, I only scored 2 tickets of the 4 we needed. However, I have closely followed the event for as long as it was possible to follow it online. As long as there was a web cast of the event, I have had a gathering at my house with it running on a big screen, wishing I was there. Personally, even if our whole group cannot attend, I am in many ways very grateful to be able to attend this years burning man. This, of all years, is history in the making. The two of us who are certain to go, plan on participating and spreading fun as much as we can. As much as I would have loved to attend in years past, my virgin year being a watershed moment for the event is amazing, come hell or high water. EVEN IF its just a bunch of virgin idiots camping in the desert. I know that at least some of them will have much fun at our tiny camp.

For my two cents on the whole ticket thing, re giving those 10k tickets to established theme camps, maybe next year they just allow camps to buy tickets AT burning man. That way, at least some portion of the tickets are purchased by people who have been before, if that is important to the event.

Anyway, I'm super excited to attend burning man 2012! No matter WHAT happens or WHO shows up.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:55 pm

STEP is the way to go, it is cool man
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by urvile » Wed Feb 15, 2012 9:57 pm

By the way, there has been a serious lack of rain this year so far. Unless that changes, and changes soon, we can probably look forward to really awful playa conditions with immense amounts of dust.

Plan accordingly and factor that into your disappointment levels.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Theres Always One » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:00 pm

Marian Goodell says,
the ratio was so unexpectedly large it has punched significant holes in Black Rock City's artistic, civic and functional infrastructure, putting the integrity of the event itself at risk. If we let market forces play out as they could with the remaining available tickets, it's likely that Black Rock City would be functionally untenable for many of the collaborations that comprise our desert event.
I don't understand why they are trying to band aid a wound that clearly needs stitches.

If it's true that a disproportionately large number of tickets went to first timers,
And it's true that the very integrity of the event is at risk,
And, Black Rock City would be functionally untenable for many of the collaborations that compromise our desert event,

Then what would happen? What would you have? You would probably have some mix of low budget art, half assed theme camps, and a bunch of bewildered first timers wandering around wondering what the big deal is. Well, I ask you, is that so bad? Why can't we just let things run its course? The event is admittedly more visible than ever. Demand greatly outpaces supply. I say, let the event go on as it is. Let the chips fall where they may. This is Nevada, right? If it flops this year. GOOD. Let them all come and see for themselves. It's no big deal. Nothing to see here. Tell your friends.

Within a year or two, wouldn't things even out as the event lost visibility and we would find the equilibrium for demand and supply is just about even? Or am I just being selfish?
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Canoe » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:01 pm

For what it may be worth...
... a look see.
Goofed. Off to fix files.
Fixed files.
BRC 2012, Post Lottery Virgin-Burner ratios.jpg
Next, if the 10,00 sold open or STEP at the same ratio.
(and it may have been a higher ratio of Virgins due to more exposure of that video, and I need to get one in case I want to go (scarcity = desirable))
BRC 2012, Post Lottery, 10,000 Same Ratio.jpg
BRC 2012, Post Lottery, 10,000 to Vital.jpg
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Last edited by Canoe on Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by danibel » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:07 pm

pink wrote:I didn't read this so much as 'Big Theme camps will get tickets' as 'the volunteers necessary to ensure the infrastructure is in place' will get tickets.

Gate. DPW. Rangers. Cafe. Medical. Arctica. Lamplighters. Playa Info. BMIR.

Many of these really, really, important areas are short of staff. As I understand it, just volunteering for a bazillion years does not necessarily get you a staff ticket. Being a shift boss at Cafe does not necessarily get you a ticket. But the people in these positions need to be there.

Sure anyone can volunteer to sling ice at Arctica or coffee at Cafe for an afternoon. I've done both, and recommend it highly. But someone has to manage these areas, or the Cafe could be shut down by the Nevada Dept of Health or the city run out of ice. Someone has to build the city and take it down again. Someone has to treat your wounds, medivac you to Reno.

And somehow with 'Moop Map' as one of the criteria, I don't think some of the big sound camps will be getting preferential treatment.

I like your attitude. Thank you for your post. It is helping me feel better about my campmates that don't have tickets yet, and really want to be there this year.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by mshaman » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:07 pm

JRoyale wrote:
First of all, the LLC is on the way out. Burning Man is converting itself to a non-profit... about 13 years too late in my opinion. But still, change is coming.

Second, just about everyone was caught off base with the surge in demand. Deal.

Third, I know (because I've talk too them) that they are horrified about how this all went down.

Fourth, the normal way to deal with a problem of scarcity is to jack up the price. Is that how you what Burning Man to price tickets in 2013? (which they won't do) but honestly, any other method of allocating a scarce resource is difficult and prone to failure.
First: Yes, thankfully the LLC is going away, a fundamental reform.

Second: Anyone who looked at the sell-out last year combined with the viral promotion of the event (e.g. Oh the Places You'll Go) via social media would expect it to have impact at some level. Looking at the business climate and forecasting demand is what a good marketeer does, and they have been known to do it well. So I'd expect consumers/laypeople to get caught with their pants down, but I'd expect a sophisticated executive team to have at least some idea that the demand was poised for a serious upturn and to start articulating a strategy to deal with it.

Third: I suspect they'll be more horrified by Labor day. Not wishing the board ill, but this year is going to be a bitter pill for all, including them, and as the consequences of this years policies come to roost it will become even more evident.

Fourth: Agreed the normal way to deal with scarcity is to raise price. That would disproportionately drive artists out and pull rich spectators in; demographically, artists aren't high earners in this culture. The other way to deal with scarcity is a line. We've seen this in the former USSR. Because I always buy my tickets at the instant they go on sale, I probably would have done well in that scenario. I rather miss the first-come first-serve system, in fact. But it would certainly cause a sellout situation very, very early given the upswing in demand, again discriminating against the artist who is at a financial disadvantage when compared to wealthier folks who don't need their tax returns, etc. to buy the ticket. Perhaps the BM culture is no longer viable as it once was.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:08 pm

I really think that is a question that needs to be answered..It says 1st come 1st serve for STEP, now does that mean on feb 29th on ? Time you register is where you will be in "line" to get a ticket?
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by danibel » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:09 pm

urvile wrote:By the way, there has been a serious lack of rain this year so far. Unless that changes, and changes soon, we can probably look forward to really awful playa conditions with immense amounts of dust.

I am looking forward to BIG dust this year! BIG wind! Bring it playa goddess! Bring it.
In dust we trust.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by urvile » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:15 pm

danibel wrote:
urvile wrote:By the way, there has been a serious lack of rain this year so far. Unless that changes, and changes soon, we can probably look forward to really awful playa conditions with immense amounts of dust.

I am looking forward to BIG dust this year! BIG wind! Bring it playa goddess! Bring it.
Hopefully it will be so dusty and inhospitable the weak and unprepared will be driven off playa, and go home and tell everyone how much burning man sucks :)

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by mshaman » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:19 pm

danibel wrote:
urvile wrote:By the way, there has been a serious lack of rain this year so far. Unless that changes, and changes soon, we can probably look forward to really awful playa conditions with immense amounts of dust.

I am looking forward to BIG dust this year! BIG wind! Bring it playa goddess! Bring it.
Yesss, and what remains of my camp will be relaxing comfortably in their Airstream trailers that have positive-pressure filtered ventilation systems that we custom built while the weak get their tents blown away or filled with dirt. That which doesn't kill me makes me a super-villain! mwahahha!
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by BBadger » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:22 pm

It's almost bizarre how this new STEP decision effectively undermines the entire goal that people should use STEP exclusively for finding their tickets. Did BMOrg forget that people could purchase, and often needed, tickets in pairs? Couples are now forced to seek out non-STEP sources for tickets should both of them wish to attend even if they receive a ticket through STEP. There'll probably be some change to this, especially if they're making them non-transferable.

On the remaining 10k tickets, how many people were banking on those being available to actually be able to attend if the lottery didn't pull through? I sure was--but I got lucky. Making an unpopular system is one thing; changing the rules of the game late into the game is entirely another. You can't compensate for what you can't rely on. While I'm not an opponent of change itself, I am against changing the rules late in the game.

Now BMOrg gets to play favorites. This is going to be a very strange process as well. BMOrg only has some data, namely past attendance, and some data on specific individuals who worked on projects or operate the more well known camps. Ensuring ticket distribution to people who are the glue in the event will be important, but will not alleviate the major problem of general ticket scarcity in camps. It's like making sure only the stage crew gets paid, and leaving the cast to provide for themselves.

So do camps get the discretion to decide who gets tickets inside their camps? Or is it just some of the key individuals in camps/projects that get their ticket reserved? If the former, it's going to be a huge shitfest, especially if they use some ridiculous "seniority" scheme. If the latter, there may still be an open sale, just with fewer tickets, or perhaps the tickets get dumped into STEP.

I'm looking forward to knowing the actual details of these new schemes, as they seem a bit half-baked.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Eric » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:26 pm

Mosquitopilate wrote:I really think that is a question that needs to be answered..It says 1st come 1st serve for STEP, now does that mean on feb 29th on ? Time you register is where you will be in "line" to get a ticket?
It's still 2 full weeks until STEP opens, I'm sure that question & others (like- can tickets be returned to STEP if you're unable to go so you don't lose your money) will be answered with time to spare. It's only been a few hours since it was posted, I'm sure they're a bit slammed right now.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by urvile » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:28 pm

BBadger wrote:It's almost bizarre how this new STEP decision effectively undermines the entire goal that people should use STEP exclusively for finding their tickets.
I'm not so sure that was the goal. I think the goal was to provide a way for people to buy tickets that would know were the genuine article, and not fakies.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by hotmess » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:29 pm

BBadger wrote:Making an unpopular system is one thing; changing the rules of the game late into the game is entirely another. You can't compensate for what you can't rely on. While I'm not an opponent of change itself, I am against changing the rules late in the game.
You said it! Changing the rules in the middle of the game is utter non sense.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by mshaman » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:07 pm

Eric wrote:
Mosquitopilate wrote:I really think that is a question that needs to be answered..It says 1st come 1st serve for STEP, now does that mean on feb 29th on ? Time you register is where you will be in "line" to get a ticket?
It's still 2 full weeks until STEP opens, I'm sure that question & others (like- can tickets be returned to STEP if you're unable to go so you don't lose your money) will be answered with time to spare. It's only been a few hours since it was posted, I'm sure they're a bit slammed right now.
Eric, I appreciate that you are generally even-keel in your posts and attempt to be fact-based.

Regarding STEP, I suspect these questions will be answered as they figure them out... like much of what we've seen this year, the STEP process seems to be "make-it-up-as-we-go-along". What seems to be the case so far is that a vague or general statement of policy is made. When there is an outcry around a particular sticking point, that issue is addressed in the next round of policy. Inevitably, that has implications, too, which requires another round... very reactive and never finished. I know I've been a broken record on this lack of strategic planning at the executive level, but after all we've seen, I rest my case.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by BBadger » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:11 pm

urvile wrote:
BBadger wrote:It's almost bizarre how this new STEP decision effectively undermines the entire goal that people should use STEP exclusively for finding their tickets.
I'm not so sure that was the goal. I think the goal was to provide a way for people to buy tickets that would know were the genuine article, and not fakies.
No it's not for that, because you can't even sell fake tickets as they aren't even in circulation yet. It's not like people will be accepting IOUs on a confirmation number. STEP was made as a way to transfer ticket ownership prior to actual ticket distribution, in that gap between now and June when tickets would be sold, and to facilitate face-value sales in a BMOrg sponsored system. They want people to use the system so that some controls are kept on how tickets are transferred between people (i.e. not in the open-market where scalpers could play a role).

Unfortunately, now people can only buy one ticket (assuming they were the person who entered the lottery) through STEP, and buying non-STEP tickets will only occur some time in June when tickets are distributed. That's a huge gap between knowing whether your better self/partner in crime/spouse will be able to attend or not. This is why I'm expecting they'll change that policy to allow two tickets to be purchased at once, maybe as a means to split the order, or some other mechanism. Otherwise, expect to see a lot of tickets going back into STEP if they allow it, if winners are unable to secure their second ticket.

This truly is the year of the individual ticket holder.
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Mosquitopilate » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:19 pm

Well if they make it so you can buy 2 tickets that will hurt people like me who just wanted 1 and now this will start the 1 VS 2 ticket buyers
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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by urvile » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:31 pm

BBadger wrote:
urvile wrote:
BBadger wrote:It's almost bizarre how this new STEP decision effectively undermines the entire goal that people should use STEP exclusively for finding their tickets.
I'm not so sure that was the goal. I think the goal was to provide a way for people to buy tickets that would know were the genuine article, and not fakies.
No it's not for that, because you can't even sell fake tickets as they aren't even in circulation yet. It's not like people will be accepting IOUs on a confirmation number. STEP was made as a way to transfer ticket ownership prior to actual ticket distribution, in that gap between now and June when tickets would be sold, and to facilitate face-value sales in a BMOrg sponsored system. They want people to use the system so that some controls are kept on how tickets are transferred between people (i.e. not in the open-market where scalpers could play a role).
That is a far cry from trying to make it the exclusive system for transfer, and I have not seen any communication from the org that would suggest they wanted it to be the exclusive system of transfer. When people get their physical tickets, there will be many of them being gifted and sold (hopefully for face). Being able to give a ticket to a friend has been part of the system for ever, and will continue to be. I for one, would not want to put my ticket into a random pool, I would give it to someone I thought needed to go. And it should always be the case that I can do so.

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Re: New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 201

Post by Eric » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:36 pm

mshaman wrote:
Eric wrote:It's still 2 full weeks until STEP opens, I'm sure that question & others (like- can tickets be returned to STEP if you're unable to go so you don't lose your money) will be answered with time to spare. It's only been a few hours since it was posted, I'm sure they're a bit slammed right now.
Eric, I appreciate that you are generally even-keel in your posts and attempt to be fact-based.

Regarding STEP, I suspect these questions will be answered as they figure them out... like much of what we've seen this year, the STEP process seems to be "make-it-up-as-we-go-along". What seems to be the case so far is that a vague or general statement of policy is made.
I think part of the problem is that they actually had a plan for STEP when they announced it back in November (not under that name, but as an in-house resale program), but they had nothing planned as a back-up if they had to change in mid-stream. It doesn't look like they had a lot of back-up plans on this, but, honestly, they've been reacting fairly quickly now that everything is in turmoil. For whatever that tidbits worth...

As I stated earlier, I'm one of the people who had planned to try to get a ticket via STEP or the open sale. Being a Mod doesn't guarantee me a ticket any more than being with the successor to one of the playa's favorite papers does; I'm may be momentarily un-nerved, but I've been going long enough to agree with Doc Pyro- it may not be easy but tickets always become available in early August. If I can wait that long.
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