New Blog - Ticket Update: Rebuilding Black Rock City 2012

[monte]

They sold me on this idea we were building a community once a year for a week,Nowhere else on earth can you find such a thing.I believed.That was floating world.This was going to be my 10 burn and my still be.But no thanks to BM.org.They fucked this up but their goals were met.The got the sales of 40,000 tickets in one day.Now that's a pay day going into a interest bearing account.Do they care what damage they did to the community?But i judge action much more than words.With the march sale called off to give the tickets to the "special people" of burning man just is not right.Then BM.org dealt out more pain to the burner community with the 1 ticket rule on Step.Who in hell is thinking this shit up.You start off splitting the community and now you are going after families too.

The burn this year will be different.I am sure of that.Just like New Orleans after Katrina the soul of the city has changed without the same people.It was the secret sauce.A lot of burner's who have pulled this wagon for years will not be going because of this.Bm.org is more worried about the newbies than the people that brought them to this point.That is the sad part.If i sound bitter and angry its because i am.I hope all have a good time but a little part of me is wishing for 65 mile winds and white outs for 5 days just for Karma.I hope to see you all on the playa

Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? you be the judge

[waynerd]

Thanks Monk, I didn't know anything about the early entry passes etc. Now that I know I'll take my time and arrive with the masses. That's exactly the answer I needed.
Looking forward to meeting everyone on the playa, a fresh new sponge ready to absorb all that is TTITD.

If you have something to sleep in, by all means come to Reno early. All around town it's like a mini-burn with all the Burners gathering. Sunday evening at the walmart parking lots is special, as everyone gets last minute items and is gathered to leave for the playa. After midnight is a real eye opener for the staff at all night stores...
Dress appropriately off-playa people...

Haha, the Walmarts, Oh how I know the Walmarts. While on my road trips there was plenty nights spent in the Wally World parking lots, curled up in my sleeping bag in the back of my SUV. Handy in the morning when you drearily stumble in amongst the shoppers to have a piss, brush your teeth, grab a juice and some fresh fruit then off to the next adventure. Yup, know them well.

[Sham]

Giant Douche or Turd Sandwich? you be the judge

Well, that was just your second post, so I think name calling may be out of line for you!
There is frustration out there, and socks is expressing their opinion on this situation.
I am hopeful that things all get worked out and most if not all people get tickets and get to go this year, but until that happens, the frustration will be understandable.

[lemur]

youve likely never seen a walmart like the one in reno before the burn.


its a mad house.

at capacity.

shelves empty of various things..

ATM's empty of cash

insane.

[waynerd]

youve likely never seen a walmart like the one in reno before the burn.


its a mad house.

at capacity.

shelves empty of various things..

ATM's empty of cash

insane.

AWESOME!

[lucky420]

it's like a xmas walmart...

[International Incident]

There is 3 reno wal marts. What one is usally the "hub"?

GOLD! I’d never of thought of a Walmart ever being a hub... now each time I see them (and for me that’s for a couple of weeks a year) I will be thinking “now which one of these is the hub - where are cool people hanging out”.

But apologies that I cannot answer your qu TG

[lucky420]

kind of depends on which direction you are coming in from. From the east (I80) you wouldn't even really need to go into Reno as there are walmarts in fallon and then fernley. Coming from the west (I80) use the 7th st one. Flying in? You would probably use the one on kietzke lane...

[tattoogoddess]

Amtrak. So yeah I would assume that who ever I am riding with would come get me from amtrak?

[lucky420]

okay so you'll be getting off in downtown reno. I personally would go to the 7th st walmart. But there are other stores that stock for burners in the area. When it gets closer to the event, we'll talk more and I may be able to help you out more, because we are both going to be there.

[tattoogoddess]

I just found out that reno has a winco! SCORE! I love that place. I used to shop there when I lived in Oregon. I think that is where I will be going for food. They are dirt cheap and have a ton of stuff you can buy in bulk by the pound out of drums. SWOON!

[Mosquitopilate]

When we get the emails to register for STEP can we use a Iphone or Ipad? Cause there will be a shot we will not be home when email arrives

[trilobyte]

Please stay on topic, folks. We've got other places to talk about preparation/rideshare stuff. Thanks

[LanceThruster]

I just wandered back in because of the ticket discussions and need to be brought up to date. What should I do to purchase for 2012 or are those gone? Secondly, if there are suggestions being made for equitable ticket distribution, one idea I would like to throw into the pot is a "buy one give one program." That is, if I buy a full price (whatever that is) ticket for myself, and would be willing to by one or more low-income tickets to be given (or sold by BM) to low-income ticket requestors, maybe that would be a fair way to move me up the priority chain (and also possibly discourage scaplers?). I don't know...just a thought.

You could also do the buy one, give one (the give one's being full price too) with the "given" one being given to the burning man people to sell/distribute as they see fit. I don't think it goes against the 10 principles because the BM org gives and gives and tries like hell to make things as fair as possible to all parties, but they shoulder a substantial financial burden that the "double" sale of the ticket could help alleviate.

[quadraspleen]

Jesus Christ people. What a load of codswallop has been written here (not that quote just below - that's good shit, right there from Col. Monk - I salute you, Sir!)

I don't know, my first year was in 2007, some very nasty storms that year, I managed to not die and even have some fun during the storms. The truth is, it ain't
THAT hard out there, even in dust storms.

That, right there from Col. Monk, folks is the rub AFAIAC.

I've kept schtumm so far and just read and re-read all of this stuff. I'm not a "birgin/en" (what a ridiculous term; you've alreasdy violated one of the ten principles right there) this will be my third burn, with the same camp (all 12 of us are from the UK bar three of us who are from SF) Most of my crew are many-time burners, who also make it the high/focal point of their year, as do I. We don't all have tix, but we're all going to get in because we are going to make it a mission to do so.

I cannot believe some of the self-rightous bullshit that some ppl are spouting here.

No mofo has _any_ claim to the burn as "their" event. It _is_ the most awesome gathering I/we in our camp have ever been to, and a couple of us used to go to Stonehenge free festival in the UK back in the 80's, which, bar the location, was about the closest I've yet come to anything like the burn. There was "super-elitism" there, too..it's in the nature of humans (just like having a scrap and throwing their toys out of the pram when they don't get what they want)..it's unattractive, sure, but please don't be suprised..We've all done it..we are doing it ourselves when we talk about "burgins" and OUR tickets have gone to "undeserving" people who "will turn up on Wednesday and just mess up/stare/set themselves on fire/go naked/look at other ppl going naked (why is it always wrinklies?)/drop moop/take pictures/point at people/etc ad infinitum.

What a load of B O L L O C K S.

What gets me here (from some corners) is the sense of entitlement. Who the fuck do some of you people think you are? Some of you really should know better, too..

You have no claim to the burn or entry to it. It is a limited ticket event. There will always be ppl left staring in; again, it's in the nature of that kind of system. Sure, the BMORG have fucked up with the tix. We all knew they would, heck, I bet privately, even a couple of them knew they would. But they, like you and I, are HUMAN. Just like the "birgins" (how many ways are there to spell that word, anyway?)

Who the fuck are _any of us_ to lay claim to being in some way "better prepared/able to deal with the Burn"? It's a fucking desert folks. It respects no-one. Not even a twenty-time burner. Sure, they may know how to deal with the desert a bit better, but that's the idea isn't it? If, as a newb, you turn up and make an arse of yourself, ppl will (should) gently put you on the right track and you'll be fine. That's ALSO a key part of BM afaiac

Please stop it with all the I hope there is a HUGE DUST STORM and all the newbies get fucked up and have to leave by thursday morning, or, my fave so far, maybe there'll be a HUGER DUST STORM at EXODUS...Oh my god; we really are all going to die!!
I/we all know what you're trying to say ppl, and if you feel you really have to keep saying it (although at this point, I'm not really sure qui bono) then, as with the rest of my atitude toward the burn; whatever you want to do people..But it's a little boring now..I'm sure quite a few of the newbs that have taken the time to get onto ePlaya will feel suitably chastened and ready for a shit time, but that's not really the idea, is it?

Come on people - this is supposed to be FUN isn't it?

Flame away friends, and I'll see you in the dust..the man burns in
6 months,
14 days,
18 hours,
8 minutes and
25 seconds

well, about 15 now

jake out - peace

[quadraspleen]

And while i'm at it (just woke up - raring to go now)

All this talk of xx% "burgins". Actually, I think that's horseshit. Look at what happened: It is known that a lot of "real" burners gamed the system. Jesus, I gamed the system, as there are fourteen of us going, and we knew lots of us wouldn't get tix. I didn't get a ticket. Oh dear. I feel sorry for myself now

A lot of the burners I know used friends/family/proxies to register for tix, and of those who are now carrying, their mums are also holding; their sisters are also holding, jesus, I bet even a few pets are holding right now (yes, I knw there aren't "real" tix yet - go with me ppl)

I reckon, having done some very long and complicated division (on a napkin), that at least 40% of tix sold are not, as we seem to think, being held by newbies, but by burners mates and families. Well, they're not going to go are they? What will Skypainter Moonbeam (apologies if this is your Playa/real name ) do with all of his/her four extra tix? She will: (probably in this order)

1. See if any of her mates need a ticket
2. See if STEP (bad name - sounds like a drug program - what's that? It is? oh, ok) wants those tickets
3. Sell them outside of STEP
4. Sell them nearer the time (either for face value or not - it is what it is folks and no amount of handwringing and introspection will fix it now)

Whatever - I simply refuse to believe that there will be 20000/30000 ppl there who have never been to the Burn before. And if I'm wrong (it has been known to happen) well, so it is..Let the chips fall where they may..surely that's Burning Man?

I sort of agree and disagree with the 10000 "directed tickets" I can see why it has been done, even if I think that 5000 would probably have done it; there ARE enough ppl to take up the slack. But: it is what it is. Deal with it.

But, and it's a big BUTdon't forget folks: It's only Burning Man (/me runs for cover) - Nobody died (this year yet ) nobody got hurt..Again, It is what it is, and that is exactly how it will stay...if I/you/us/we don't get to go this year, there we go..I'll go next year, and take the advice of a sage person on the board (sorry, can't remember your nick) and go on a fucking way cool road-trip up through Oregon and see some more seriously amazing shit in that oh-so-amazing country you guys have over there

POSITIVITY PLEASE - IT WORKS

For the record, I also think that BLM will cough up another few thousand perms and the BORG can print out a few more tix and this will all seem like a big storm in a teacup in ten months time

jake out

[Sham]

quadraspleen, I tend to agree with you as to where the tickets are. In fact, as I read your post again, you seem to make a lot of sense. What will happen to the tickets once they are delivered to aunt Muriel? That is now the mystery!

[quadraspleen]

What will happen to the tickets once they are delivered to aunt Muriel? That is now the mystery!

Surely the same as would have happened if they were held by burners? They'll be gifted, sold or returned..Unless Aunt Muriel is coming? Bring her on! I can't wait to see her face!!

And also fo the record: only one ticket through STEP ? Duh. Fail. Bad news for all the couples who've posted. They shoudn't have been so "honest" and realised, as I did, that as soon as it's a lottery, you need to increase your odds. That's how lotteries work.
Again, I can see what Maid Marian thinks: that it will prevent "hoarding"; but it's not "hoarding". It's redistribution. I am going to apply for a ticket in STEP as not all of our crew have tix yet, I do (depsite not having "won" one - I was gifted one by one of our crew who also "gamed" the system) That's how it will have to work for now until the BMORG sorts itself out and reviews what/how/when/why for next year..

It could have been worse.. what about a single-entry no STEP lottery. Imagine that...That's how a lot of over-subscribed events work. Count ourselves lucky that we exist in a (closed) society where gifting and STEP is a reality.

PPl will always lose, as they did before the damn, stupid, boring lottery. It's not like everyone always got in anyway is it?

jake out

[quadraspleen]

And....(lol, shut up, jake) since when has one's musical tastes defined one's status as a 'proper' burner?

I like George Michael. Go swivel. I don't really like Dave Matthews, but I know ppl who do lol...it makes not a hoot of difference to me what music ppl listen to, as long as it isnt dub-step right outside my camp on the one night I've decided to "get some rest" (last year my not-self-appointed playa name was "Sleeping Man" lol)

dontcha think this whole discussion is in danger of disappearing up its own arse?

Jake out

[Age]

One of my camp-mates witnessed this at Alchemy in Georgia... a commercial event where it grew from 900 to 2700 in one year... as he relates it, it was a rave, not a burn, and no one had ever heard of Leave No Trace... the median age was about 20 and everyone was trying to steal his stuff.

Just an FYI mshaman, you've managed to fit 6 completely false statements in one run-on sentence.... good job. It is true that Alchemy is the largest regional in the US (and second in the world to Afrikaburn), but not true it grew that quickly. Took five years to get to 2786 participants, and the year before was 1723 not 900. Still fast growth, but that's what happens when you have a great burn on the opposite end of the country from BRC. Not sure what you meant by commercial, but assuming you meant "for profit" which is also not true. Alchemy is not a for profit event. In fact, when they had a bunch of cash left over after 2010, they decided to sell their first 500 tickets in 2011 for $5 each to give that money back to the community. Also not a rave, though there are some seriously bad-ass sound camps, and LNT was heavily enforced. They only had two camp areas that were red on the moop map after the event, and both were unregistered camps. Median age at Alchemy 2011 was 28, and while that's down from the prior year (was 30), it's a far cry from 20 (PS - Are you bigoted against young people?).

Before you post about an event you've never attended with a bunch of falsehoods, you should consider attending and forming your own opinion.

[wraith]

quadra, I think that dust storm at Exodus bit came from me, and you mis-read it. I'm hoping it doesn't happen. A ton of new people in the middle of a shitstorm is a recipe for several someones getting badly hurt or killed, and that would be terrible.

[quadraspleen]

quadra, I think that dust storm at Exodus bit came from me, and you mis-read it. I'm hoping it doesn't happen. A ton of new people in the middle of a shitstorm is a recipe for several someones getting badly hurt or killed, and that would be terrible.

Well I apologise, Wraith..I wasn't having a poke, but there is some serious catastrophising going on in this forum. I think we all need to take a deep breath...

And there are those, who should know better, who for whatever reason, think that the best way to "fix" how BM is broken (?) is to somehow weed out "newbies" or ppl who don't fit their, very narrow, definition of what it means to be a "true/deserving burner" and that by having some serious weather/death/disaster it will "scare off the sightseers" (for what it's worth, my first year 2009 was quite dusty; way dustier than last year and I LOVED it - radical self-reliance is a particular fave of mine; it should be taught in schools imo)

There is a great series of posts in another forum about theme camps by clarkkent that pretty much accord with my views; he says it much more eloquently than me, and while I disagree with minor points, it takes it a little further than "it's not fair; loads of first-timers are going and all the "best" theme camps can't go, and my "theme" camp can't go and it's going to be shit" (I actually heard it's going to be shit this year btw )

I'm really not having a personal dig at anyone. I'm a grumpy bastard sometimes and I just say it how I see it. I'm always getting in trouble for it I wasn't trying to paint you as a "newbie-hater" (hate that newbie word too!)

jake out

[Sandstorm]

Quadra,

I love your spirit and POV. While I am not a fan of how a few people at BMORG handled the ticketing situation I am even less of a fan of the anti-virgin sentiment that I have come across online. I very much hope that by the time the burn rolls around that this mindset has run it's course and that it does not have much of a presence on the playa.

You mentioned that the majorty of your crew is from the UK. Any chance you are part of Ooligan Alley? Those folks brought a lot of happiness to my burn last year.

I just had to share the below information with you/the board. It's a compilation of FB posts written by a guy who has been posting in a thread over on the BM page. I hope that all the (good) virgins have a great burn this year. Separately, the guy who wrote the below posts is the poster boy for the type of first time burner who is cluleless about the nature and ethos of Burning Man and the burner community.

‎"Coachella is just another corporate branded tsunami of culture consumption" couldn't the same be said about BurningMan?"..."I haven't been to BM, but how different could it be? Coachella and BM are both dubstep oreinted music festivals non? I know that the camping is more prevalent at BM, but there is camping at Coachella too! I've been to Coachella a bunch and I got my ticket for BM to go for the first time this year!"..."Also whoever mentioned Rusko, do you know what day he is playing and if its on the main stage or like one of the smaller stages/art mobiles?"...Why would there not be a main stage? You can't have bassnector playing in some tiny camp with like no people? That wouldn't make any sense. You obviously haven't been to burningman."..."wtf. that's so lame. I'm going to prb sell my ticket for a slight increase now and use that money to go to a different fest. I've heard from some experienced burners that this is going to be the worst year/ a bad year. prb just sit it out. plus, I can make 2x what I paid for my ticket in the lottery if I sell it to some desperate burner lol."

[moonrise]

Jesus Christ people. What a load of codswallop has been written here (not that quote just below - that's good shit, right there from Col. Monk - I salute you, Sir!)

I don't know, my first year was in 2007, some very nasty storms that year, I managed to not die and even have some fun during the storms. The truth is, it ain't
THAT hard out there, even in dust storms.

That, right there from Col. Monk, folks is the rub AFAIAC.

I've kept schtumm so far and just read and re-read all of this stuff. I'm not a "birgin/en" (what a ridiculous term; you've alreasdy violated one of the ten principles right there) this will be my third burn, with the same camp (all 12 of us are from the UK bar three of us who are from SF) Most of my crew are many-time burners, who also make it the high/focal point of their year, as do I. We don't all have tix, but we're all going to get in because we are going to make it a mission to do so.

I cannot believe some of the self-rightous bullshit that some ppl are spouting here.

No mofo has _any_ claim to the burn as "their" event. It _is_ the most awesome gathering I/we in our camp have ever been to, and a couple of us used to go to Stonehenge free festival in the UK back in the 80's, which, bar the location, was about the closest I've yet come to anything like the burn. There was "super-elitism" there, too..it's in the nature of humans (just like having a scrap and throwing their toys out of the pram when they don't get what they want)..it's unattractive, sure, but please don't be suprised..We've all done it..we are doing it ourselves when we talk about "burgins" and OUR tickets have gone to "undeserving" people who "will turn up on Wednesday and just mess up/stare/set themselves on fire/go naked/look at other ppl going naked (why is it always wrinklies?)/drop moop/take pictures/point at people/etc ad infinitum.

What a load of B O L L O C K S.

What gets me here (from some corners) is the sense of entitlement. Who the fuck do some of you people think you are? Some of you really should know better, too..

You have no claim to the burn or entry to it. It is a limited ticket event. There will always be ppl left staring in; again, it's in the nature of that kind of system. Sure, the BMORG have fucked up with the tix. We all knew they would, heck, I bet privately, even a couple of them knew they would. But they, like you and I, are HUMAN. Just like the "birgins" (how many ways are there to spell that word, anyway?)

Who the fuck are _any of us_ to lay claim to being in some way "better prepared/able to deal with the Burn"? It's a fucking desert folks. It respects no-one. Not even a twenty-time burner. Sure, they may know how to deal with the desert a bit better, but that's the idea isn't it? If, as a newb, you turn up and make an arse of yourself, ppl will (should) gently put you on the right track and you'll be fine. That's ALSO a key part of BM afaiac

Please stop it with all the I hope there is a HUGE DUST STORM and all the newbies get fucked up and have to leave by thursday morning, or, my fave so far, maybe there'll be a HUGER DUST STORM at EXODUS...Oh my god; we really are all going to die!!
I/we all know what you're trying to say ppl, and if you feel you really have to keep saying it (although at this point, I'm not really sure qui bono) then, as with the rest of my atitude toward the burn; whatever you want to do people..But it's a little boring now..I'm sure quite a few of the newbs that have taken the time to get onto ePlaya will feel suitably chastened and ready for a shit time, but that's not really the idea, is it?

Come on people - this is supposed to be FUN isn't it?

Flame away friends, and I'll see you in the dust..the man burns in
6 months,
14 days,
18 hours,
8 minutes and
25 seconds

well, about 15 now

jake out - peace

quadra, you're funny! It'd be great to see more transparency from you, keep 'em coming, please. I know there are many who woud like to hear it all (and I'm sure there's more, much, much, much more).

I like Col. Monk too. He posts polite ideas to improve the situation (in an attempt to help those that didn't game the system) and I like Mosquitopilate too. He's been politely asking for a ticket everywhere and if I had an extra I'd flow it his way (sorry Mosquitopilate, I don't have an extra tic, I won one, no extras here) but you'd be in line, after Lucky420

quadra, I'm wondering why'd you use the term "newbs", if you hate it so?

Also, until the cap was hit, yes, anyone could go....just throw your shit in the car and drive there, buy tic at gate and done. Of course it helps to live in the shadow of the Black Rock. It took me 18 years to go back, work, life and medical reasons got in the way, but I finally made it back and what an interesting time to return. Or is it? I am realizing every little hiccup is responded to with massive amounts of hysteria. This one caught many off-guard, sadly many on eplaya, some are regulars and many new people (they left, broken hearted) birgins, yep, I like that term bc it's fun and funny. Did I break a principal? Oh well...my grammar sucks too (horrid, I know) go ahead, shoot me.

In the end, I wonder will the sell out & lottery tune some of the numerous snobs up? Or will they be that much more snobby, salty and angry? Let's hope not, but the very real reports of small (and maybe some big) camps giving up indicate things will be different, it's gonna be interesting, that's for sure...

[5280MeV]

‎"Coachella is just another corporate branded tsunami of culture consumption" couldn't the same be said about BurningMan?"..."I haven't been to BM, but how different could it be? Coachella and BM are both dubstep oreinted music festivals non? I know that the camping is more prevalent at BM, but there is camping at Coachella too! I've been to Coachella a bunch and I got my ticket for BM to go for the first time this year!"..."Also whoever mentioned Rusko, do you know what day he is playing and if its on the main stage or like one of the smaller stages/art mobiles?"...Why would there not be a main stage? You can't have bassnector playing in some tiny camp with like no people? That wouldn't make any sense. You obviously haven't been to burningman."..."wtf. that's so lame. I'm going to prb sell my ticket for a slight increase now and use that money to go to a different fest. I've heard from some experienced burners that this is going to be the worst year/ a bad year. prb just sit it out. plus, I can make 2x what I paid for my ticket in the lottery if I sell it to some desperate burner lol."

This is the cultural phenomenon that is the other wild card. A lot of people are likely interested in BM from reading about BM and some combination of freedom of expression, artwork, playa life, etc... this is good. I think that most of these people will have a good time, no matter if the big stuff is a bit more muted this year.

Then there is this "festival season" thing. It appears to be really taking off culturally, which is fine. The only issue is that BM is VERY different from big music festivals, based on my limited experience with Bonnaroo04 and BM11. But people do lump BM in the same category as these festivals, and so people may be a bit unprepared and disappointed.

So the apocalypse scenario is Woodstock99, and the more I think about this, the more I think that it is severely unlikely to impossible, even if all the big sound camps folded and there was a deluge of unprepared festival kids looking for one more high to cap off the summer. Where exactly are they going to riot? There is no main stage. I think that likely they would just trickle out through the week as they get their asses kicked by dust storms, leave some MOOP lying around, and tell the whole world that "Burning Man sucks, don't go!" Maybe that advertising is worth picking up the extra trash!

On the other hand, festival-goers are certainly not the worst people on the planet! I remember meeting some quite interesting people at Bonnaroo in '04, people shared things, some people made stuff, it was ok. They could, just conceivably, start to "get it"?

In any case, I think that the 10,000 ticket distribution makes this discussion completely academic. The big camps are going to have supercharged LNT plans, they will be bending over backwards to interact with newcomers, and everything should be more or less ok.

[trilobyte]

In the early, formative years of Burning Man, there were 6 years in which at least half the city's population had never been to the event before. Not only did the event survive, but it thrived and blossomed and continued to grow. If you're worried about there being too many spectators, try and do something about that. Invite some new blood into your camp's ranks this year and show them how it's done. If you can't do that, think about what you can do to help acculturate newbies on the playa.

My girlfriend's first year was 1996. Incidentally that was the last year that the population doubled from the previous years. Her whole camp was wide-eyed newbies. She and her friends had been going to raves, and a DJ friend told them that if they liked raves they had to go to Burning Man. With maybe a week's preparation and never even having seen a picture or video from the event, they headed off into the desert and somehow managed to survive. She's gone on to participate in some incredible art projects of all sizes, from camp art to honorarium stuff and even mutant vehicles.

The rave/festival-goer crowd aren't bad people - they're full of potential and possibility.

[moonrise]

Yep Trilo, you're right, because people from Tahoe would just get in the car and go, with short notice. Lots of deadheads (gasp!!) and they know how to car camp, or parking lot camp.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Quote
"The big camps are going to have supercharged LNT plans, they will be bending over backwards to interact with newcomers, and everything should be more or less ok."

They are? I sure hope so, because we were tripping over beer bottles they were so many of them thrown on the ground! We picked most of them up, but it got tiring (and was a heavy burden to carry the bag of THAT trash). Hopefully the big "sound" camps read this board and get with it, or more solid black on the MOOP map and then what? They fuck up the permitting for eveyone else? Seems most of them just set up camp at Burning Man for the street cred. Maybe they can flash subliminal ads to NOT MOOP? And/or work it into their songs. Or would that be "un-burny"?

[Sandstorm]

In any case, I think that the 10,000 ticket distribution makes this discussion completely academic. The big camps are going to have supercharged LNT plans, they will be bending over backwards to interact with newcomers, and everything should be more or less ok.

Whatever happens it will certainly be an interesting year. In human terms the part of this fiasco that bothers me the most is the fact that it tearing up playa families. Last year I was in AEZ and my neighbors were a great group of folks, most of whom were in their 40's, 50's and 60's, and they ran a wonderful bar that was open during daylight hours. The camp has been around for a while. I made good friends with one of the camp members, stayed until Tuesday in order to help my new friends break down their camp and and one of them gave me a ride back to Reno. Those folks are good people and I was looking forward to camping with them this year because I wanted to help them continue to gift something beautiful to the community. I felt as though after 4 burns I had finally found "my people". I'm scared to find out how many/few of the members of the camp actually got tickets.

I despise the anti-virgin sentiment that I have come across. Separately, the veterans who make camps like the above camp happen have the skill sets required to wrangle the people and infrastructure required to put together a camp and a bar that is the gem of a given BRC neighborhood intersection. I am heartbroken to think about how many of those types of camps will not be in BRC this year.

If the camp I spoke about gets broken up I'm willing to volunteer with DPW and get there early enough to help put up the perimeter fence (it's been a dream of mine since after the '10 burn) but I'm not sure that I can even do that without a ticket. I want to put aside the negativity and make the push to get to BRC this year but I'm scared that it will be a shadow of what it was last year.

[moonrise]

sandstorm, if what quadraspleen says is true, then most of the wealthy (SF Bay Area) camps gamed the lottery and they'll be there (there's money in the city, yep, no denial 'bout that, do NOT even try to contradict me. I can prove it). I don't see many wealthy (SF Bay Area) camps complaining on eplaya, hmmmm...

I DO hear from Reno camps (small ones, including the one I was going to camp with) that they didn't get tix, so odd, since they are so close...they probably played fair and didn't game the lottery and/or they simply were caught off-guard because they're accustomned to buying tix easily and play fair. I betcha next year they will be entering the lottery a multidue of times (if there is a lottery) or they'll do an alternate event. Reno is close to many other desert locations suitable for alt events, not the big burn but close enough.

ETA: with all the pining about the good old days, seems some want it to be a shadow of what it once was. We'll see!

[vargaso]

Jesus Christ people. What a load of codswallop has been written here (not that quote just below - that's good shit, right there from Col. Monk - I salute you, Sir!)

I don't know, my first year was in 2007, some very nasty storms that year, I managed to not die and even have some fun during the storms. The truth is, it ain't
THAT hard out there, even in dust storms.

That, right there from Col. Monk, folks is the rub AFAIAC.

I've kept schtumm so far and just read and re-read all of this stuff. I'm not a "birgin/en" (what a ridiculous term; you've alreasdy violated one of the ten principles right there) this will be my third burn, with the same camp (all 12 of us are from the UK bar three of us who are from SF) Most of my crew are many-time burners, who also make it the high/focal point of their year, as do I. We don't all have tix, but we're all going to get in because we are going to make it a mission to do so.

I cannot believe some of the self-rightous bullshit that some ppl are spouting here.

No mofo has _any_ claim to the burn as "their" event. It _is_ the most awesome gathering I/we in our camp have ever been to, and a couple of us used to go to Stonehenge free festival in the UK back in the 80's, which, bar the location, was about the closest I've yet come to anything like the burn. There was "super-elitism" there, too..it's in the nature of humans (just like having a scrap and throwing their toys out of the pram when they don't get what they want)..it's unattractive, sure, but please don't be suprised..We've all done it..we are doing it ourselves when we talk about "burgins" and OUR tickets have gone to "undeserving" people who "will turn up on Wednesday and just mess up/stare/set themselves on fire/go naked/look at other ppl going naked (why is it always wrinklies?)/drop moop/take pictures/point at people/etc ad infinitum.

What a load of B O L L O C K S.

What gets me here (from some corners) is the sense of entitlement. Who the fuck do some of you people think you are? Some of you really should know better, too..

You have no claim to the burn or entry to it. It is a limited ticket event. There will always be ppl left staring in; again, it's in the nature of that kind of system. Sure, the BMORG have fucked up with the tix. We all knew they would, heck, I bet privately, even a couple of them knew they would. But they, like you and I, are HUMAN. Just like the "birgins" (how many ways are there to spell that word, anyway?)

Who the fuck are _any of us_ to lay claim to being in some way "better prepared/able to deal with the Burn"? It's a fucking desert folks. It respects no-one. Not even a twenty-time burner. Sure, they may know how to deal with the desert a bit better, but that's the idea isn't it? If, as a newb, you turn up and make an arse of yourself, ppl will (should) gently put you on the right track and you'll be fine. That's ALSO a key part of BM afaiac

Please stop it with all the I hope there is a HUGE DUST STORM and all the newbies get fucked up and have to leave by thursday morning, or, my fave so far, maybe there'll be a HUGER DUST STORM at EXODUS...Oh my god; we really are all going to die!!
I/we all know what you're trying to say ppl, and if you feel you really have to keep saying it (although at this point, I'm not really sure qui bono) then, as with the rest of my atitude toward the burn; whatever you want to do people..But it's a little boring now..I'm sure quite a few of the newbs that have taken the time to get onto ePlaya will feel suitably chastened and ready for a shit time, but that's not really the idea, is it?

Come on people - this is supposed to be FUN isn't it?

Flame away friends, and I'll see you in the dust..the man burns in
6 months,
14 days,
18 hours,
8 minutes and
25 seconds

well, about 15 now

jake out - peace

For one, I agree with you. For two, that quote was from me, actually.