Monkey Hut question

[Savannah]

But it's anti-fungal.

[FIGJAM]

I'd rather spend $3000 on fungal.

[Krokodyle]

It would have to be really really good fungal at that price

[Earthwalker]

Can you smoke fungal, or do you have to ingest it?

[MacGlenver]

Speaking of huge monkey huts... what's the longest rib section you've seen on a monkey hut, and what thickness is the PVC on that?

We do a 30' long hut with 30' long ribs (making the opening about 20' wide). The 30' long ribs are 1" Schedule 40 PVC electrical conduit with built-in bell connectors.


The 1" PVC holds up pretty well at that length, but does start to get a bit flexible. We guy down the peak of the front and back ribs, but the tension even with 30' ribs starts to pull the peak down towards the ground more than we'd like.

We're planning on experimenting this weekend with 40' rib sections of the same 1" PVC, but I have some doubts as to whether it will be stiff enough to keep a decent peak at the front and back when guyed down. I'm thinking we may bring some 1 & 1/4" or 1 & 1/2" PVC to sleeve over some of our 1" stuff on the end ribs to stiffen it up.

Has anyone built a hut that uses 40' long ribs, and, if so, did you have to go to the 1 & 1/4" or 1 & 1/2" PVC or use a vertical brace to keep the peak from drooping?

Our test build this weekend will be in a pretty serene location compared to the playa, so it won't be a full test, but it should tell us something. Luckily there's a Home Depot nearby so we can retool if needed. I'll follow up with pics to let you know how it goes.

[FIGJAM]

I was thinking the same thing about sleeving for extra stiffening, but some 1/2" or 3/4' regular pvc inside of what you have would be easier and cheaper.

[MacGlenver]

I was thinking the same thing about sleeving for extra stiffening, but some 1/2" or 3/4' regular pvc inside of what you have would be easier and cheaper.

Ah, good call! We've got some leftover 1 & 1/4" from another project that we can use for sleeves, but it may not be enough. If we have to get more I'll definitely try out the 1/2" or 3/4" inside. Thx!

[MacGlenver]

I'll follow up with pics to let you know how it goes.

To follow up on this post, we opted for a different design for our structure and never tried the 40' ribs for the monkey hut. We DID use 40' sections of 1" PVC, but we built a "dome" with eight 40' ribs crossing in the middle. The dome was about 23' in diameter. We bungie balled the intersection point (which was about 15' in the air). We added some 20' PVC arches at each of the 4 openings and guyed them down. It made a fantastic shelter (though would be bad in high winds, I expect). We were too tired after building this thing to try to do the 40' ribs on a monkey hut. That said, the ribs were very floppy at 40', as you would expect. We reinforced the bottom section of PVC with some 1 & 1/4" PVC sleeves, which helped. This design worked because the PVC crossed at the center point at the top and was bungied together. Since a monkey hut wouldnt have that, the top of the ribs would be very weak. I think to make a MH work with 40' ribs you would have to either use 1 & 1/4" PVC for the whole thing, or reinforce most of the rib sections either with an external PVC sleeve or an internal one.

[Martiansky]

Question for the monkey hut pro's.....
When you cut the spine piece and then add X's or T's at the end of the pieces, it adds length to the total piece, correct?
Will that throw off the measurements for the sides or is that such a minimum it won't matter?

[Drawingablank]

Question for the monkey hut pro's.....
When you cut the spine piece and then add X's or T's at the end of the pieces, it adds length to the total piece, correct?
Will that throw off the measurements for the sides or is that such a minimum it won't matter?

It is a minimal amount but it is needed if you use the proper size tarp. The extra space helps put tension on the bungee balls.

[MacGlenver]

Question for the monkey hut pro's.....
When you cut the spine piece and then add X's or T's at the end of the pieces, it adds length to the total piece, correct?
Will that throw off the measurements for the sides or is that such a minimum it won't matter?

I agree with Drawingablank. As long as your bungees will still reach the arches on the end, it should be fine. That said, I hate the design that uses X and T connectors. So many pieces, and totally unnecessary. My post from page one lays out my opinion/design. I've used this method at 5+ events and it works great.

I have to say -- no offense to Love's Monkey hut, but the design where you make the spine out of multiple sections connected via those wedged in duct tape ends is terrible. We used it last year and the center spine kept coming out of the T and X connectors and falling on our heads. We had to tape the shit out of it to make it stay in, which is contrary to the point of the design. If you put a strap on the end ribs, it will surely pull the spine out of its connectors.

The better design is to take 10' sections of 1" PVC and join them with a 3 foot long, 1 & 1/4" sleeve. You duct tape around the 1" stuff about a foot from the end to prevent it from sliding too far into the wider 3' sleeve. If you want to be sure it wont slide out, add some duct tape once the 1" stuff is inside the thicker PVC. Rinse and repeat for several sections (up to 30 or 40 feet -- I've only tried up to 30' thought). Don't bother with the in-line ridge pole, just make a pole of the appropriate length using the method I described, and set it directly on top of the curved ribs. Use duct tape or bicycle tire wrapped cross-wise over the ridge pole and the rib to tie them together. MUCH sturdier and easier to build than Love's monkey hut, and almost no cutting except for the connector sleeves.

The short version of the story is that if your design requires any T or X PVC connectors, then you're making it way too complicated AND it will be less sturdy.

If you do need to cut your PVC in half for transport, I'd suggest using a piece of 1-1/4" PVC as your connector for the ridge pole, since it allows you to slide the PVC in further for a more secure fit. There is no need to tie the ridge pole into the arches directly, just lay the ridge over the top of the arches and duct tape/bungee/bike tube it in place.

[Martiansky]

I agree with you MacGlenver in regards to so many seperate joint pieces slipping apart.
I'm going to go with a single ridge pole.

But for those with multi section ridge poles I found a 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducer and the you dont need to use duct tape because they fit snug.
Or if you wanted to, you could glue the pieces together except in the middle so it can still seperate for tranporting.

[MikeGyver]

I went with the multiple spines last year but I screwed the connectors to the poles. I know it kinda ruins the ease of set up, but It didn't fall apart.

[Drawingablank]

I agree with you MacGlenver in regards to so many seperate joint pieces slipping apart.
I'm going to go with a single ridge pole.

But for those with multi section ridge poles I found a 1 1/2" to 1 1/4" reducer and the you dont need to use duct tape because they fit snug.
Or if you wanted to, you could glue the pieces together except in the middle so it can still seperate for tranporting.

Seems like a lot of extra work for nothing.

I use the standard Love Monkey design with the long bungee cords between the ribs along the peak and the connectors have never separated or caused any problems.

Even with both ends of the peak guyed to the ground with ratchet straps, the peak connectors have stayed solidly together.

[MacGlenver]

I use the standard Love Monkey design with the long bungee cords between the ribs along the peak and the connectors have never separated or caused any problems.

Even with both ends of the peak guyed to the ground with ratchet straps, the peak connectors have stayed solidly together.

O.M.G. lol, I just reread Love's Monkey Hut design and saw that it calls for 4' long bungee cords....

From the site:
"Use the bungie cords to secure the spine. Wrap one bungie around the first rib as close to the spine connection as possible, hooking the bungie onto itself. Pull the other end of the cord to the second, or middle, rib and secure it near the spine connection. Duplicate this from the second rib to the third. The frame should now be stable and ready for the tarp."

My first Bman (2011) was the only year where we used Love's design, and my friend was the one that prepared all the material and directed the construction. He totally forgot the bungee cords, so I assumed they weren't part of the design. That design makes a hell of a lot more sense now, haha.

HOWEVER! I still think it is an unnecessarily complicated build. Buy the Schedule 40 PVC conduit with built-in bell connectors (cut em in half and use 2 foot 1-1/4" PVC sleeves to join them if you can't transport 10' lengths), and lay the solid spine on top. Now that I see that Loves design calls for bungees, I'd say its a fine design if you've already got it, but if you're about to make one, there are simpler (and sturdier) ways.

[Milayna]

I use the standard Love Monkey design with the long bungee cords between the ribs along the peak and the connectors have never separated or caused any problems.

Even with both ends of the peak guyed to the ground with ratchet straps, the peak connectors have stayed solidly together.

O.M.G. lol, I just reread Love's Monkey Hut design and saw that it calls for 4' long bungee cords....

From the site:
"Use the bungie cords to secure the spine. Wrap one bungie around the first rib as close to the spine connection as possible, hooking the bungie onto itself. Pull the other end of the cord to the second, or middle, rib and secure it near the spine connection. Duplicate this from the second rib to the third. The frame should now be stable and ready for the tarp."

My first Bman (2011) was the only year where we used Love's design, and my friend was the one that prepared all the material and directed the construction. He totally forgot the bungee cords, so I assumed they weren't part of the design. That design makes a hell of a lot more sense now, haha.

HOWEVER! I still think it is an unnecessarily complicated build. Buy the Schedule 40 PVC conduit with built-in bell connectors (cut em in half and use 2 foot 1-1/4" PVC sleeves to join them if you can't transport 10' lengths), and lay the solid spine on top. Now that I see that Loves design calls for bungees, I'd say its a fine design if you've already got it, but if you're about to make one, there are simpler (and sturdier) ways.

I totally agree, I skipped those x and t connectors, and just secured the spine to the ribs with tons of duct tape, held up beautifully for 8 days.

[MacGlenver]

I totally agree, I skipped those x and t connectors, and just secured the spine to the ribs with tons of duct tape, held up beautifully for 8 days.

Then it exploded on the 9th day

[Milayna]

I totally agree, I skipped those x and t connectors, and just secured the spine to the ribs with tons of duct tape, held up beautifully for 8 days.

Then it exploded on the 9th day

Hahaha I guess we'll see on the first day this year

[geospyder]

I just built my MH using the Love's design. Very simple to set up. I used the 4 foot bungees and they also double as tie downs for securing the ten foot poles to the top of my Jeep. I posted pictures in the One Item Per Day thread - http://eplaya.burningman.org/viewtopic. ... 10#p943327

[theCryptofishist]

I totally agree, I skipped those x and t connectors, and just secured the spine to the ribs with tons of duct tape, held up beautifully for 8 days.

Then it exploded on the 9th day

But by then god had created the earth in six days, spent an extra day replacing those bolts from Ohio, and had a day of rest. And it was good...

[fresh]

I use the standard Love Monkey design with the long bungee cords between the ribs along the peak and the connectors have never separated or caused any problems.

Even with both ends of the peak guyed to the ground with ratchet straps, the peak connectors have stayed solidly together.

O.M.G. lol, I just reread Love's Monkey Hut design and saw that it calls for 4' long bungee cords....

From the site:
"Use the bungie cords to secure the spine. Wrap one bungie around the first rib as close to the spine connection as possible, hooking the bungie onto itself. Pull the other end of the cord to the second, or middle, rib and secure it near the spine connection. Duplicate this from the second rib to the third. The frame should now be stable and ready for the tarp."

My first Bman (2011) was the only year where we used Love's design, and my friend was the one that prepared all the material and directed the construction. He totally forgot the bungee cords, so I assumed they weren't part of the design. That design makes a hell of a lot more sense now, haha.

HOWEVER! I still think it is an unnecessarily complicated build. Buy the Schedule 40 PVC conduit with built-in bell connectors (cut em in half and use 2 foot 1-1/4" PVC sleeves to join them if you can't transport 10' lengths), and lay the solid spine on top. Now that I see that Loves design calls for bungees, I'd say its a fine design if you've already got it, but if you're about to make one, there are simpler (and sturdier) ways.

Yes the bungees are pretty essential to keeping the spine together and not falling on top of your head. I went an extra step and got a thinner 1 1/2" pvc (forgot the schedule #) that I cut into one foot sections and glued to the connectors for the spine side only. I then slid the 1 1/4" spine pieces into the thinner 1 1/2" "extended" connectors. Then i did not have to make a giant wrap of duct tape on the spine ends, just one or two wraps. Pretty much used as a insurance policy since I extended distance between ribs to 6" in order to fit tarp.

I agree though, the x and t connecting spine is superfluous. The setup I saw on the playa that looked easy and simple was drilling holes in ribs and running guy line through all ribs and securing at ends.

[dragonpilot]

I'm inclined to go with the original Lovemonkey design (http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/) simply 'cause it provides pics...my brain requires diagrams and pics. That said, for additional support I'll bring my cordless driver and add screws/bolts at the joints, agreeing the duct tape alone might not be enough.

The hut's peak height looks like it's about 7 feet. I'm bringing a small camping trailer that tops out at 8' vertically. I'd like to get the trailer under the hut. How much longer do the ribs need to be to get that clearance plus the clearance as the ribs arch over the outside edges of the trailer?

[MacGlenver]

I'm inclined to go with the original Lovemonkey design (http://www.chromatest.net/Lovemonkey/) simply 'cause it provides pics...my brain requires diagrams and pics. That said, for additional support I'll bring my cordless driver and add screws/bolts at the joints, agreeing the duct tape alone might not be enough.

The hut's peak height looks like it's about 7 feet. I'm bringing a small camping trailer that tops out at 8' vertically. I'd like to get the trailer under the hut. How much longer do the ribs need to be to get that clearance plus the clearance as the ribs arch over the outside edges of the trailer?

If you move the legs of the hut closer toward the center, the hut gets taller (and narrower). I might suggest a test-build to confirm your trailer will fit. I would say adding another 5' section to each rib should do it, though 1 ten footer cut into thirds would be convenient (assuming it gave enough height). Changing one or both of these variables (spacing vs more PVC) should give you the extra headroom -- just test it to be sure you like the result. Sorry I can't give you specific numbers -- mine would just be guestimations.

[dragonpilot]

Thanks! Gotcha! Trailer's 8' wide so I can sacrifice some of the footprint there.

Someone is supposed to be doing a MH setup demo at our Regional event (criticalnw.org) coming up...hopefully we can experiment. Trailer doesn't have AC so it needs to be under shade to be useful during the day...AND, I might add, I'll be incorporating Figjam's swamp cooler.

[Jack Straw]

I'm wondering if it's best to leave a couple inch gap between the tarp and the playa down the length of each side of the shelter or just take it right down to the ground. Anyone have any advice on this?

[theCryptofishist]

You want the air to move in and out of the structure, rather than make an oven.

[Riv]

OK, more monkey hut questions!

Background: because I needed to transport it to my regional in a car, the monkey hut I have is made up of 1" PVC in 5' sections with 2' connectors made of 1.25" PVC (I held the connectors to the 5' sections using gaffer tape). The spine is tied to the ribs with inner tubes. I've deployed this at the regional, but I don't think it was a very good test because the ground was very non-flat and there was basically no wind. It held up fine, but was pretty ramshackle and I want to do better for the playa! This is for a chill space/cooking area, not for a tent.

1) Is it reasonable to have 1" PVC for the spine instead of 1.25"?

2) For the ribs, is continuing to use gaffer tape to keep the connectors from slipping? It seems to me that the tension should mostly hold them in place anyway...

3) The original MH instructions about the bungee cords seem like they might cause some amount of skew with the flexible inner tube connections. Any suggestions for better ways to hold the spine together? Or will bungee cords still work well in this setup?

4) I have a 20x10 tarp. I'm thinking of adding one or two more feet to the spine, because the lack of connectors + needing to make sure the spine and ribs *cross* to tie them with inner tubes meant that there was a lot of overlap when it came time to bungee the tarps to the end ribs. (I'd do this by getting some 6' lengths of PVC from HD.) Do I also need to add a foot to each rib in order to get a bigger air gap at the sides?

5) How much guying out/staking down is a good idea and how much will it compromise the whole "flexes instead of breaking" aspect? I'm looking at using either one or two guylines run all the way through the spine and staked at both ends.

Thanks

[BeeWeeDee]

1) Is it reasonable to have 1" PVC for the spine instead of 1.25"

I would think you would be OK, but the X fitting in the center and T connectors for the end ribs benefit from the extra support of larger PVC pipe that pass through these connectors

2) For the ribs, is continuing to use gaffer tape to keep the connectors from slipping? It seems to me that the tension should mostly hold them in place anyway...

Things move around in the wind and a bit of tape on the lower 5' rib sections to hold the 2' connectors in place (or at least not slipping down) is pretty inexpensive insurance when a gust starts to make things dance.

3) The original MH instructions about the bungee cords seem like they might cause some amount of skew with the flexible inner tube connections. Any suggestions for better ways to hold the spine together? Or will bungee cords still work well in this setup?

I like to double up on the bungee cords up there to hold things together. I was thinking of a cinch strap or ratchet strap to do the same thing but a little give and take allows the MH to give a little.

4) I have a 20x10 tarp. I'm thinking of adding one or two more feet to the spine, because the lack of connectors + needing to make sure the spine and ribs *cross* to tie them with inner tubes meant that there was a lot of overlap when it came time to bungee the tarps to the end ribs. (I'd do this by getting some 6' lengths of PVC from HD.) Do I also need to add a foot to each rib in order to get a bigger air gap at the sides?

I use a 20x10 tarp as well. I wouldn't extend the spine much more than a few inches on my hut because the tarp can be pulled taut with the existing spine that I have. Pulling the tarp taught also helps to keep the spine connected. I did see a MH where the tarp was 20x 12 and the excess tarp was wrapped around the end ribs and secured with long bungie cords between the grommets on each end. This looked like a lot of bungee cords but useful as multiple clothes lines.

To get a bigger air gap at the sides I inserted 4" sections between the 5' rib sections and this served me well. I could then pull the tarp tight and still had a few inches of ground clearance on the sides.

5) How much guying out/staking down is a good idea and how much will it compromise the whole "flexes instead of breaking" aspect? I'm looking at using either one or two guylines run all the way through the spine and staked at both ends.

Guy lines would tend to pull the spine apart -unless you pull them through the spine. I think if you put enough compressing on the spine with bungie cord or ratchet straps the guylines just become a nuisance. Hope that helps.

[Riv]

That helps a lot, thanks! The idea of putting 4" extenders in the middle of the 2' connectors is especially brilliant.

My thought on the guy lines is to prevent some of the swaying from side to side (both in the same direction as the spine and the same direction as the ribs) or lifting up that might happen--but again, I'm not totally sure the side to side motion is something I should be looking to prevent or embrace.

[Drawingablank]

OK, more monkey hut questions!
2) For the ribs, is continuing to use gaffer tape to keep the connectors from slipping? It seems to me that the tension should mostly hold them in place anyway...

The best way is to run a screw into the 2' connectors at the halfway point. No taping needed then because they will not be able to slide past the screw.

OK, more monkey hut questions!
3) The original MH instructions about the bungee cords seem like they might cause some amount of skew with the flexible inner tube connections. Any suggestions for better ways to hold the spine together? Or will bungee cords still work well in this setup?

The spine bungees are designed to keep the socketed parts in the original design from pulling apart. Since your design uses no sockets they would likely create some issues.

5) How much guying out/staking down is a good idea and how much will it compromise the whole "flexes instead of breaking" aspect? I'm looking at using either one or two guylines run all the way through the spine and staked at both ends.

I would consider running a rope through your spine and guying down the ends.